Interior green or aluminum?

I would not trust warbird photos for historical reference at all.The owner may or may not restore their aircraft to original condition and colors. Try looking for actual WWII color photos...

P-51 gear bays are aluminum, as are the inside of the gear bay doors.

Been nice to know that 2 P-51 builds ago.  Interesting that it is often depicted as either chromate yellow or green.

Yes, I have seen photos from WWII of the yellow zinc crhomate wells... doors vary, with NMF showing mostly NMF also and OD/NG Ponies showing either NG or Aluminum lacquer on the inner face

No P-51 ever left the factory with zc yellow gear bays.  Early P-51's had aluminum lacquer bay.  During P-51B/C production the lacquer was no longer applied, and the bays would appear bare metal with a zc yellow wing spar.  By the time of the D production, the spar was also left in bare metal.

Well photos show some color in there...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1328669358/P-51+wheel+well+color+question.

Thanks guys you've been a big help. Aluminum it is.

All I know is, in the Squadron /signal 'P-51 in Action' book, many odf the B7W photos show a shade of colour in the wheel wells rather than shiny aluminum. Maybe it was something done in field?

Only the folks who built the planes, and those who worked on them in that area at that time know for sure. And most of them are dead now. The photo of the D wing under construction above clearly show Yellow ZC primer on the upper inner surface. So at least one P-51D had that in the wheel wells. In the name of rapid production, it is logical to say that this would not be a one shot deal, and under wartime mass production requirements, many more were built this way.

Not to cause an arguement, but the shot of the P-51D wing shows the fuel tank bay in yellow ZC.  The painting process for that area is not finished.  it was 1 coat ZC, one coat tinted ZC, then one coat aluminum for the tank bay.  What you see on the B is the zc yellow spar that I mentioned above with a natural metal gear bay.  The rub strip in the last picture is strange because normally that part was not specified to be primer from the subcontractor.  Perhaps it is a replacement strip?  Do you know when / where the photo was taken?

Based upon the markings at the time, with the ID stripes and white nose used on P-51s when first introduced into the ETO, I would estimate that photo was taken in early 1944. Sometime in Spring 1944, Fighter groups began to adopt colored noses, such as red for the 4th FG, Red/Yellow for 357th, etc.

As Stikpusher said, only those who knew the plane knew the color. I do have a reference from" P-51 Mustang in detail and scale Part 2" by Bert Kinzey, that says "Official USAAF specifications called for the interior of the well to be painted Chromate Yellow primer."

I am currently working on P-51B 43-12102 in the process of being converted to D specs. Without any firm reason to deviate from the official specs; I will probably have Chromate Yellow interior well. But, if I decide to paint them aluminum; who will know it is wrong!

43-12102 is a much photographed aircraft, it had aluminum gear bays.  The Detail and scale series, while great for the photos, suffers from very outdated or just plain wrong information when it comes to what is written in them.

the green/yellow color is just primer.  to avoid rust.  replaced parts sometimes didn't get the treatment.  working with the air force, we always painted or primes all metal to make it last longer

If you guys look at the link that I posted with the color photos, Dana Bell, who is certainly well versed on the subject of US aircraft colors, interior and exterior, has his input on the subject.

There have been many discussions on interior wwii aircraft colors. This is a very dynamic subject. One article that I have found helpful is by Martin Waligorski who was the editor of IPMSStockholm.org. You may find this informative!

www.ipmsstockholm.org/.../stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

I pulled several kits out of my stash to see what their call outs were:

Revell P-51B Cockpit chromate green

Revell P-51D Cockpit chromate green

AM P-51 Cockpit zinc chromate with olive drab side consoles

Wheel wells and doors zinc chromate

AM P-51C Cockpit interior green with olive drab side consoles

Wheel wells and doors aluminum

Tamiya P-51D Cockpit XF3&5 (chromate green)

Wheel wells chromate green and doors aluminum

If Bronto or anyone has any evidence of aluminum gear bays on P-51B  43-12102, I would sure like to see it. I agree, they probably are aluminum; I would just appreciate a reference!

I wouldn't use the colors on kit instructions as any kind of reference.  Most manufacturers get the colors wrong.  I'm out of town until Friday, then I'll dig up the pics of 43-12102 for you.

The IPMS Stockholm site is a good one. When all else fails, it is a good fallback reference. Agreed with Bronto in that often times kit instructions do not get the interior colors correct.

Bronto,  Can I ask what are your sources?  I am also building the Tamiya P-51D and the general consensus I found looking at various websites, discussions and pictures is that yellow ZC was applied at the factory, but was often over-sprayed in the field whenever any work was done with green ZC.  I have not found any source that said planes left the factory bare metal.

I'm at the painting phase for the wheelwells so very interested in the topic.  Thanks!

Please understand, in my prior post, I printed out the interior colors called out by the kit manufactures only to show that they are not that far off! Are they right? Certainly not! The only way anybody can be right is to own a time machine, go back to a point in time in the forties, and look at the colors on the plane. The best we can do is look back into history (research) and speculate. Unless, of course, if we happen to dig up a well preserved wreck.

And, Bronto if you read this, I am not necessarily looking for photos of 43-12102 (I have lots of them). I am looking for confirmation that she had aluminum wheel wells. Everything I have points that way; I would like to see some firm evidence if you have it! Or, I like two or three witnesses. Thanks for offering!

CNicoll

Bronto,  Can I ask what are your sources?  I am also building the Tamiya P-51D and the general consensus I found looking at various websites, discussions and pictures is that yellow ZC was applied at the factory, but was often over-sprayed in the field whenever any work was done with green ZC.  I have not found any source that said planes left the factory bare metal.

I'm at the painting phase for the wheelwells so very interested in the topic.  Thanks!

My sources are many photos, NA factory procedures for the P-51, and about 30 years of studying the P-51 (ask me about P-51's and B-17's I will probably have the answer, any other aircraft not to certain).  Originally it specified 1 coat of untinted ZC, followed by 1 coat of tinted ZC, followed by 1 coat of aluminum.  This changed over time to both reduce production time, and to eliminate the use of aluminum powder for paint.  All P-51's from some time early in the "B" production (I have been unable to track down the exact serial when it happened) left the factory with either bare aluminum gear bays, or possible with bare metal gear bays with the wing spar (which made up the rear "wall" of the gear bay) painted in untinted ZC.

Shipwreck

And, Bronto if you read this, I am not necessarily looking for photos of 43-12102 (I have lots of them). I am looking for confirmation that she had aluminum wheel wells. Everything I have points that way; I would like to see some firm evidence if you have it! Or, I like two or three witnesses. Thanks for offering!

Shipwreck -

    I know I have one photo showing aluminum on the inside of the outer gear bay doors, I can't remember if I have others.

This has always been my "Bible" on building the Tamiya P-51 B or D.  This guy seems to know what he's talking about, or is at least confident in that regard.  Its worth a gander.....

modelingmadness.com/.../tmc51d.htm

Joe

May I ask a question. Is it maybe the color of the instructions were based on restored aircafts from which they based the model from?

That is very possible. Tamiya has done that sort of thing before. I read somewhere about their P-51 kits having a reinforcement plate on the upper wing surface that was added post war over the landing gear. On their original T-34 kit, they have tow lugs molded in place on the front that were added to the Aberdeen T-34 they used for their model subject, but not on standard tanks.

Great discussion and good info links.

Bronto, thanks for your input. It was very helpful!

Everyone has their opinions that they mistake as "fact." As mentioned above,  Dana Bell is considered a leading expert not because he has a forum account and access to Google images and Wilipedia, but because he has done years of research not google search. In short it's either going to be aluminum lacquer with a yellow spar, all NMF or all yellow chromate. He's concluded that there is no definitive delineation as to which airframes received which.

On a side note I'd say not to be so obsessive about 100% accuracy and use some artistic license. The hobby is being ruined by the rivet counters who run new builders away from forums with their BS obsessiveness. There is itching wrong with personally wanting to be accurate, but the shunning of those who choose not to be is another story

Ok, thanks.  May tap into your B-17 knowledge at some time.  Cheers.