A tale of two P-40B and P-40E -- COMPLETED !!!!!

My insanity continues and I press on. I fabbed up a set of radiators and used my General shape tool to get the inside of the fuselage right and mounted the rads on that so they will sit right up against the exit duct. I needed something to use for the rads to give them the grille appearance I wanted and I found an old automotive AC orifice tube in my toolbox that I cut the screen off of. The mesh size is just right and the fit was within my needs. So, this is the end result. This will have to be installed after the two halves are closed from the nose. 

I also began fabbing up the intake duct work and the odd shape changing over to round inside the cowl presented some challenges to say the least. But, I think I got it figured out. Using heat on round tubing to shape the ends and then using sheet stock to make the rest I think I licked it. This will be mounted to the nose piece and installed with it when it's glued on. The duct will just contact the rads and the screens will/should be visible from the front. I still have some work to do fitting and trimming but you get the idea.

I also followed BV's example and removed the cowl mounted guns and drilled out the cowling and I will be installing brass rod. The size is the same as the moulded kit part but there will now be some gap at the barrels and give a tad more realism to them. I may ever try to find some resin or brass barrels and use them if they are much better than just stock rod. 

Thanks for looking.

BK

The detail that you are applying is just unbelievably amazing.  Everything you've done thus far is beyond my comprehension!  Such phenomenal technique.

Toshi

Nice job Brandon. I wouldn't worry much about the vent along the belly. If you look more closely at other adjacent panel lines, you'll see you've got it right where it belongs. Clever solution for the air exit duct. That was the one thing I could not fit when I built the engine for mine. I waited too long to put it in and couldn't fashion it accurately and slip it in from underneath. =[ You looked to have done a good job here.

This is really good detailing, Brandon. I think I will be following your example the next time I pick up this kit. All of the rescribing, the details you've added, and the scratch building are better than you give yourself credit for.

I'm loving all of it.

Well, it's nice to be back at these two kits. The Monogram kit is getting a major hack and slash treatment to hopefully make it a lot more detailed. My attempts at these upgrades are just that "attempts" and I feel fall short of the skills I've seen from others on here, but I am having fun with it so I shall press on.

I have begun reworking the fuselage to allow me to fit the AM resin cockpit, which was made for this kit but it really doesn't fall into place and has required more work to make fit than I expected. Oh well, it's a major improvement non the less.

Another area I wanted a "attempt" to correct is the slit in the belly that lies just behind the radiator air exit area. Why the kits don't have this is beyond me but I'm attempting to add it to the kit. Although not completely finished I think it is pretty close to what I had in mind. I feel now that I placed it a tad too far forward, but "too late now" to correct that. I'll just have to live with it. you can see the slit here in the photo below.

Anyway, that is mostly done and I am happy enough with it to move on. So, another area I wanted to address is the radiator air exit area located under the cowl flaps that directs the air out of the radiators. I began with plasitc tubing, glued them together and then cut it off at an angle and mounted it to the front of the wing at another angle. Once I get this fully fitted and shaped to my liking I will build the radiators just forward of that. I will also open up the from of the engine cowling and build the ducting "to" the radiators as will. This should all be visible upon finally assembly. I think it will be a nice improvement over the sparse kit parts. More updates to come.

BK

Well, now that I have several GB's knocked out I can return to working on these kits and pull them from the neglected pile. I am looking forward to getting these done. 

BK

Thanks, Brandon!  Looks like I may have to redo my coolers a bit. 

Gary,

Here are a few good shots of that area. Seeing it like this makes me think I may attempt this. It doesn't look all that hard.

BK

Gary, I can better see that piece now that you pulled it apart. I plan, and will, make the green area for the air flow control out of the rads, but that back piece would not be worth the effort to form on its own. I'll add the slots and see how your trick works out, otherwise I'll have to live without it until I just can't stand it and lose my mind, and do it anyway.

BK

Thanks, Brandon!  You're probably taking this further than I want to go.  You'll end up with something to appease the modelling gods.

I had never noticed the slots in the bottom of the fuselage until I looked at the 3d model.  I don't think I've ever seen a picture of that section.  That's the area of the drop tank / bomb attachment and it looks like a separate piece.  I was considering using a saw to cut that section out of the lower wing, then using some sheet plastic to form a new piece to go over that area, but now that I think about it, it may be possible to just put a piece over the existing and have it extend up under the cooling flaps.  I'm going to take some measurements on the 3d model and see if that's possible.  I'll let you know if I come up with something.

Thanks again!

Gary

UPDATE:

I've pulled the relavent section of fuselage out of the aircraft model to see what it looks like.  This is it.

It actually curves up to fit over the oil coolers in the forward lower fuselage.  Too complex of a shape to comfortably create out of plastic card.  The hole in the side (about the middle) is where the flap actuator rods come through.

I think what I will attempt is to cut a slot in the bottom of the fuselage where the section ends (tail-ward end) and then see about creating a curved piece to give the illusion of a separate piece.  Not sure if it's worth the trouble.

Anyway, just thought I'd let you know what this area looks like in case you're interested.

GAF

BTW, are you going to do anything about the fuselage underneath just behind the flaps? I'm thinking of taking a saw to this area, but I'm open to new ideas. 

I'm about to tackle two, make that three issues underneath. First, open the cowl flaps, two build and install a radiator along the full length of the cowl, and third fill the gap at the rear cockpit at the flap area which is huge. 

Looking at your image, I see the area you are referring to. The kit just doesn't have that open like that. I'm not sure that is an area I want to tackle. I'll add the slots, but the long opening at the rear may be too much to do, for me anyway.

What I am planning on doing:

1. open flaps, easy peasy

2. build radiator, copy design from Hasegawa kit and fit it the this kit, make the bulk head solid top to bottom at the front of the wings inside the fuselage, then the air deflector on the rear of radiator will meet this and close the opening. The front edge of the wing has a small bit already, I'll just put sheet stock on that and fill the firewall area, just to close it up. This will have to be inside the fuselage first and then dropped down onto the wing.

3. with the flaps closed the gap at the fuselage is about 1/8 in. Ill fill that with sheet stock and that will also push the wing root a tad higher, making a better fit at the wing root. If you look at this area closely, you will see it is not flat but has a peak if you will. It will take filling it with sheet stock either bent up or built like the peak of a roof so it follows the belly's shape. A piece about 3/16 in wide and from side to side with that peak will fill that up nicely.

I also found that with the dyhedral set all I have to do to close the wing roots tight is widen the fuselage at the flap area. I'll leave the cowl set at the kit size as this fits the front of th wing roots great. BUT, the reat has a gap. With the tail also set at the kit size at the rear wheel, you can just open the fuselage at the flaps about >1/8 in and then taper it closed at the rear wheel opening. This closes the wing root gap and is far easier to do than fiddle with the roots themselves.

All the time I spent working on getting the wings just right has paid off as it allows me to keep everything else at the stock kit attachment points. Otherwise I would have had a ton of work in other areas that would have actually been more difficult.

In the photos, the fuselage is just resing there. The gaps close totally when you hold it in place. It's a nearly perfect fit front to back.

Very creative solutions for the P-40 wing problem.  I'm looking at the same problem, but was thinking of some thick sheet plastic instead of brass rod.

BTW, are you going to do anything about the fuselage underneath just behind the flaps? I'm thinking of taking a saw to this area, but I'm open to new ideas.  Thanks! 

Gary

Very clever fixes. TY for sharing this valuable info. I wish i could think of things like this on my own.

Ok, well moving on now. I mentioned the flimsy wings and that has become an issue. I'll cover that in a moment.

First, with the wheel bays out of the way I turned my attention to the flaps. I will pose them up because ALL the parked P-40B's I have pictures of are up. The only ones I see down are done so for photos or they are museum pieces. There may be some out there down, but it appears the norm was to have them up. SO, the kit needs some help here.

I began by placing them in the up position and attaching thier pivot points. I played with them until I felt the wing edge gap was acceptable and then glued them down. This is where the flimsy comes into play. At the trailing edge of the wing where it meets the flap the wings sags. Even with the aid of the upper in place the sag remains. I had to solve this to make the wing smooth front to back with no bumps or waves.

I cut think sheet styrene in strips narrow enough to fit on top of the flap and just touch the support inside the wing. I then glued the strip to the flap and let that dry. (the flaps are dead flat to, so that really helps make this work) Once that was dry I then ran a thin strip of Tamiya thin along the back of the new strips and hand held the wing flat to the flap. After a few minutes the wings are now dead flat along the rear of the wing and the flap and trailing edges line up nicely. This trick eliminates the use of any glue along that edge, which would have ruined the look.

Problme two and three: the left wing is wavy, to say the least, from tip to wing root. Even with the upper wing installed the wave remained. AND, the dyhedral is nearly flat on this kit. Now I know we can solve the dyhedral with some tape, glue and the wing roots, but this kit won't let me eliminate it all together in that manner. SO, another solution is in order.

It came to me to use brass tube to make the wing straight, and it then occured to me to also use this method to form the correct angle on the dyhedral. This way when I work with the wing roots later, the angle will already by correct, I'll just need to close the gap. I pland on widening the lower fuselage and filling that rather than the wing roots. It will look better and be easier to do. It won't affect the upper part and shouldn't be apparent when done.

So, I made a 7 in long piece of brass rod and bent it to the correct angle using a technical drawing scaled to my kit. I then placed it in the wing with tape and made sure it would fit and the fuselage would also not be too encombered by its presence. It all fit great. With the rod in place the wave is removed and the angle is correct, all in one move. I epoxied the rod in place. As you can see the angle is now correct and the wave is no longer in the left wing. More updates to come. Thanks for looks guys.

BK

lawdog114

That "butchery" looks fantastic. I scribed a B-17 and P-61 once. I swore I'd never do that again. Where did you get you hole pumch? I need one of those.

 

BK

At this point I am callilng the bays done. I don't intend to add anything else. I had considered the tubing and the one box but I've decided to pick my battles and after nearly 15 hours of work I just don't want to spend any more time there. Thanks for the complement.

BK

Looks like you got it worked out to me. =] It didn't occur to me to fashion them as a bay one could drop in like an aftermarket part.  That's a clever idea. If I recall, I think I was concerned with stiffening up the wings/wingroot.  That's what led me down the road I went.  The ribbing did a lot to help that and I'd imagine that this bay is operating the same way here.

Are you going to add the gearing that allow the struts to rotate and drop down.  I can tell you now that they will not be visible AT ALL. lol  They're so far up there when it's all done... Just take a picture so you can remember what it looked like. =P

Ok, so the butchery continues. I have the wheel bays built up as good as they're gonna get. Fitting them to the wings was a huge PITA. I am not totally satisfied with them overall, but they don't look horrible. I guess they are better than nothing there at all. I will work on closing the flaps and adding my landing light and I should be able to close these wings up. They are pretty flimsy and adding the bays did stiffin them up a bit, but closing them will make all the difference. 
I still cringe when I look at what I've done. Hopefully, the primer and paint will hide my errors.

I began by making a test bay out of card stock and them working with it until I had the shape and fit sort of figured out. I then moved on to styrene sheet and made each piece and fit them one at a time until I had the fit close and the shape acceptable. Once this was done I attempted to replicate the indent for the tire in the fuselage side. That was some trial and error and what I ended up with is out of scale but its the best I could figure out how to do.

I basically built these tubs from photos. I didn't reference any other persons build as I just wanted to see what I could come up with. Next time I will just buy a set of tubs for the Trumpeter kit and make them fit. They look better and are more correct, and certainly easier to work with. This was no simple bit of work. I have a few full days in working with these and getting them in. Now that they are there, I can live with the results. I was pretty unsure of this most of the way. The flimsy wings really frustrate you when you are trying to be precise and carefull. I did okay on this part. It's good enough for Govt work anyway.

BK

I'm a complete p-40 fan and this build looks like a good one. You got me thinking about rescribing my revell p-40. I used the same plan to rescribe my revell p-61 a first for me but have yet to put it together.

I personally like the rivets that gos back To my building as a kid. Not all kits had them and I just loved them.

Really like watching your build so talented !

Looks like a good start Brandon.  Should be an interesting comparison.

Joe

That's the reality of it.  No getting around it. =]  With regards to the raised panel lines and rivets, I personally just gave them a very light sand to knock them down a bit.  The only raised parts that absolutely must be rescribed are over the cowl as those are removable pieces for the engine.  And I suppose the access door behind the pilot on the left side.

Looks like you're off to a good start.  Take your time with this one.  At 1:48, it's damn hard to scratch parts to scale and make them work for you. 

I'm looking forward to seeing how that Legends cockpit measures up to the True Details version.

Thanks guys, I feel like it looks like Hell until I get it to primer, and then it's like, "ok, that works." Till then I am looking at it and finding more and more to do. This is gonna take longer than planned. But hey, it's what I really like to do anyway.

BK

Ah, Brandon!  You're making me want to do a lot of detail work on my own kit, and that's a sure fired way to lead me into trouble!  No, No, No! 

It really is looking great, sir.

Gary

I've still got this kit in the works and this already is fantastic work. I'm going to watch this with great interest.  :)

Update #1,

Now that I have had some hours, many hours working with the Monogram kit I have uncovered more areas that just have to be addressed. Some of which I hadn't noticed until I went back through bvallot's post on the same kit. I'll cover those as I address them. For now here is what I have done.

I have 95% of the re-scribing done. I really hate doing this as it makes me feel like I am destroying the kit and it just looks horrible until you get primer down. I mostly followed the existing kit raised panel lines and then sanded out all the rivit detail and raised panels. Not that I have anything against raised panels, I don't, but this kit looked and felt like a Hedgehog and was over scale on the rivit detail and I felt it detracts from the kits looks. So, I removed all of it. Now after many many hours of scribing and sanding I think it looks sleeker and more appropiate for the scale.

The next area I began working on was the wheel bays. Thus far I have only filled the lower wing area as I have yet to begin boxing in the bays. That starts tomorrow. While I was working on these I noticed that the gear was very under detailed and was missing supports. So I removed the single kit strut and added two in its place and recycled the kit strut to the side. I then added slots in the wings for the struts to go into in an attempt to simulate the real thing. It looks better now and will paint up nice. I'll add a brake line later.

I also removed the kit landing light, that was a joke. I have made a light similar to my B-17 lights that fits the wing perfectly. I will add that just before I close the wings up. I plan to get the wings, upper and lower assembled before I attach them to the fuselage. I think working with the leading edge and its issues will be easier off the fuselage. I will then turn my attention to the cockpit mods. 'Til then, later.

BK

Well, I started the rescribing today, and yes the plastic is quite thin and rather flimsy. I have one upper wing done and it looks much better. I hope to have all the rescribing done this weekend. I thought the two halves were gonna be trouble, but a flat surface and some sand paper and they cleaned up and line up pretty nice now.

I am planning on doing a late '41 -B Pearl Harbor bird. It doesn't need to be a surviver, just one that represents one of the birds parked there that fateful day. I should have some pics up later this weekend. The -E will be an AVG bird for sure.

BK

Brandon,

Look forward to your techniques and color choices!  I did think that you were going to use one of the earlier boxings of the Monogram P-40s?

I am about to start my own Revell P-40B for the 1941 GB.  I must admit that the plastic reminds me of a vac-u-form molding, it is so thin.  I don't see the flash as a problem so much as I'm afraid of breaking something while removing it! 

Fit wise, I'm already seeing some things I need to watch out for.  If you get a head start on me, I hope to see what you do to fix them.

I must admit that she would make a perfect AVG bird, as the parts have Chinese markings all over them! 

Gary