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                        ARMOR - Sherman Family Group Build

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                        2189 replies
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                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 9:58 AM
                        Wow, guys.

                        Thanks for the warm welcome and helpful advice.

                        Chris: thanks for the lesson. Very much appreciated. It's nice to have a little 'reference chart' when your just starting out. However, a few of the pictures wouldn't show up. I'll see if I can go directly to the links... I may know diddly-squat about armour (and planes for that matter), but they sure do intrigue me. There's a few guys that build WWII armour in our club and I continue to be drawn in when I see their build-ups. I still enjoy planes and cars too, but I'm looking forward to this build. I also have the Academy 1/35 M3 Stuart Honey, but I'm gonna build a few smaller things first to build up my skills a bit.

                        Domi: that's the kit I'll be using. I'll do a bit of research and see if there's anything 'special' I'd like to do to it...

                        Thanks again.

                        Murray
                        Report Abuse
                        djmodels1999
                        • Member since
                          December 2002
                        • From: United Kingdom / Belgium
                        Posted by djmodels1999 on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 9:06 AM
                        I won't be bringing in Lees nor Grants, do not worry. I was just asking! In fact I've bought Italeri's M4, which I'm planning to chop and modify into one of those early Israeli weirdoes..



                        Murray, the kit is originaly a ESCI design, arguably one of their finest ever. The had it in Calliope too, but that one is not yet re-issued.. (boohooo!) I had first in mind one of the later Israeli weirdoes, but I had so many troubles with Fujimi's 1/76 HVSS-type Sherman when I built the T31 that I gave soon up the idea...
                        Report Abuse
                        M1abramsRules
                        • Member since
                          June 2003
                        Posted by M1abramsRules on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:44 AM
                        welcome Murray! I would never have guessed you would do armor. just so you know what's what, I'll give you a rundown on the sherman's variants (I won't go into their different versions though)
                        An M4 sherman tank(early versions had 75mm guns, later vers. had 76mm guns)

                        A sherman firefly (the british version of the sherman)(17 pounder gun)

                        The M10 (a tank destroyer made with the m4's chassis)(76.2 mm gun on it)

                        The achilles tank destroyer (the brit version of the m10)(it had a 17 pounder gun on it)

                        The M32 recovery vehicle which was based on the M4

                        an m36 tank destroyer (based on the m4 chassis)(had a 90mm gun)

                        The M7 priest was a self propelled artillery piece using a 105mm gun(later versions used M4 parts)

                        the sherman calliope (rocket launcher on top of the turret)

                        The BARV (Beach Armored Recovery Vehicle) (It was to provide vehicle recovery during amphibious invasions)

                        The Duplex Drive Sherman was an ordinary sherman had a flotation screen around it for amphibious landings and it had to propellers for power in the water.
                        Report Abuse
                        J-Hulk
                        • Member since
                          February 2003
                        • From: Tochigi, Japan
                        Posted by J-Hulk on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:35 AM
                        QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw
                        Brian:
                        Why can't he do one of the Hellcats, though??
                        Bill


                        As Robert already mentioned, the ol' Hellcat's just not in the family.
                        Ostracized! Disapprove [V]

                        It's just gonna have to wait for it's own group build one of these days!Big Smile [:D]
                        ~Brian
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                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:28 AM
                        Murray Kish,

                        I don't know much about the 1/72 scale armor. One of the "Brail Scale" fanatics will have to help you there.

                        But, being Italeri, I would think it would be a reasonable kit.

                        Have fun with it! That's what this is all about.
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:24 AM
                        Thanks Mark956,

                        I hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew for the time frame we have. The kit looks great with no obvious supprises lurking in the resin. Resicast has a solid rep, so I'm not expecting much trouble. But the proof of all resin kits is in the build. I've had some which looked easy enough, but the build didn't work quite that way.
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 7:03 AM
                        Thanks Shermanfreak, I appreciate the link.

                        Those pictures will help a great deal.
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:39 PM
                        I'd like to join in with you guys on this build as well. However, I'm gonna need some serious 'grace' when it comes to the techno-speak about armour...

                        Here's what I know: I have a 1/72 kit by Italeri and it says "M4 Sherman" on the box. That's all I know so I assume it qualifies... all this other talk about various versions and such is total jibberish to me...

                        I don't actually have "posession" of it yet, but I bought it today so my wife could put it in my Christmas stocking. Won't that be exciting!!

                        So, here comes the newbie armour guy that doesn't know the back end from the front. Watch out, it just might be built exactly out of the box.... (regardles of accuracy).

                        BTW, anyone know anything about the kit? Cautions or suggestons? I did build a 1/72 Crusader a couple of years ago and actually liked that quite a lot as well.

                        Murray
                        Report Abuse
                        mark956
                        • Member since
                          February 2003
                        • From: USA
                        Posted by mark956 on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:26 PM
                        Thanks for the link Robert. That would be a sweet tank to build. Latch I am a little jealous.
                        mark956
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                        shermanfreak
                        • Member since
                          January 2003
                        Posted by shermanfreak on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 10:22 PM
                        Not at all latch .... it's one kit I've always wanted to see done up and haven't yet had the pleasure. Should be a fairly straight forward build.
                        Here's a link that you might find to be extremely useful.
                        http://www.kmk-scaleworld.be/WalkAround/BARV/index.html

                        This is one that I really look forward to !!!!
                        Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 9:54 PM
                        Shermanfreak,

                        The BARV I have is from Resicast, but it is the full kit, and not the conversion.

                        It doesn't look to be that involved of a build. It also looks complete and correct, but I haven't put the callipers to it yet. (Probably won't put the callipers on it anyway. I don't have a lot of reference on it other than some decent photos of BARV's in use at D-Day, and the few pictures/text the Hunnicut provides.)

                        Is there something about it I should be aware of?
                        Thanks.
                        Report Abuse
                        shermanfreak
                        • Member since
                          January 2003
                        Posted by shermanfreak on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 9:26 PM
                        latch - do you have the BARV conversion from Resicast or are you going to scratchbuild? IIRC Mark is using the Verlinden conversion for his Calliope build.

                        As confirmed earlier - No Hellcats .... they're not part of the family.


                        Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:46 PM
                        Hey, on that Calliope, don't forget the old Verlindin conversion.

                        You might be able to find one of those.
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:44 PM
                        I just got done rummaging through some of my stack of Sherman's.

                        Just to make sure that some of the "more uncommon" stuff gets represented, I think I'll build the BARV.
                        Report Abuse
                        wipw
                        • Member since
                          January 2003
                        • From: Utah - USA
                        Posted by wipw on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:21 PM
                        Scratchbuilding??? Oh yeah, I heard o' that. In fact, I do it all the time. I put a part on the model and sit for awhile and scratch my head tryin' to figure out what I did wrong!! Yeah I scratchbuild a lot!!

                        Bill
                        Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
                        Report Abuse
                        renarts
                        • Member since
                          April 2003
                        • From: Sunny Florida
                        Posted by renarts on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 5:18 PM
                        Hey Bill,

                        If you can find an old Monogram 1/32 Sherman it has the calliope included as an option.
                        Theres always scratchbuilding................

                        Mike
                        Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
                        Report Abuse
                        wipw
                        • Member since
                          January 2003
                        • From: Utah - USA
                        Posted by wipw on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:55 PM
                        Wish I had a callopie!!! Please note, Mr Tamiya and Mr Dragon, even Mr Trumpeter would do. Heck, at this point, I'd even settle for a reissue of the Italeri kit!!

                        Bill
                        Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:50 PM
                        Fine by me. No M3 Based vehicles then.

                        There is plenty of Sherman based options for each of us to build several if we wanted to and never build the same tank twice!
                        Report Abuse
                        wipw
                        • Member since
                          January 2003
                        • From: Utah - USA
                        Posted by wipw on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:04 PM
                        Chris,

                        You guys are all too mean! Haven't you heard there was a peace treaty signed and now all the Tigers and Shermans are teaming up to look for Bin Laden??

                        Bill
                        Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
                        Report Abuse
                        M1abramsRules
                        • Member since
                          June 2003
                        Posted by M1abramsRules on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 4:01 PM
                        nono!!!!Shock [:O]

                        "happy tiger hunting all" Wink [;)]Big Smile [:D]
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 3:19 PM
                        No skin offa my caboose! I'm doing a Sherman, not a Lee or a Grant... Just looking at machanical interchangability (that leaves out the FT17 I think....) LOL. AS well as the folks who were thinking of M3's. I can see your point.
                        SO our STARTING point is the Sherman (and I'd imagine the T-6!). Does anybody know what happened to that thing (the T-6)? Was it cut up during WWII along with the A7V at Aberdeen?
                        Happy Sherman Hunting all!

                        Ron.
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:23 PM
                        QUOTE: Woohoo! TARGETS!! Muh hah hah hah hah!!!!!


                        Yes! Exactly what the Sherman crews thought of all those broken-down, mechanically unreliable Tigers as they drove by them! Then they went off to provide armor support to the American infantry, which the German infantry envied a bit, as their tanks were all abandoned by the side of the road, or stuck in the mud! Laugh [(-D]
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:17 PM
                        QUOTE: If you eliminate the M3, then you also eliminate the T-6, early M4's, M7's etc.


                        Personally, I would disagree with that. The Sherman was the name given to the M4 tank. There were non-tank vehicles derived from it that used the same chassis.

                        The M3 was a tank. It was not a non-tank variant using the same chassis.

                        I can see why these group builds are so inclusive (IMO, a bit overinclusive), but you've got to draw the line somewhere. The M4 was a type on American medium tank. The M3 was a different kind of American medium tank.

                        Not meaning to ruin anyone's fun, but for the group build to have a subject, there have to be some parameters. From the Panther buildup, it seemed to me that the parameters are -- Pzkw V Panther tanks and non-tank vehicles using the same chassis.
                        Report Abuse
                        M1abramsRules
                        • Member since
                          June 2003
                        Posted by M1abramsRules on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:13 PM
                        QUOTE: Originally posted by Poniatowski

                        family is family, including parental units (and grandparental units)!


                        If you want to go that far back we might as well do the Ft 17 and any other WWI tank that comes to mind Wink [;)]
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 2:09 PM
                        I'M IN!!! I'M IN!!! HAHA! Finally a group build for something other than a sausage-wagon!

                        This is a great opportunty for me to do my very Early M4 for Tunisia that I shelved to work on my Panther for that group build. Hmmm, I've got til Feb to get the beer-burner done, then I get to work on a vehicle the good guys and winners used! Hussah!

                        (Not that I'm excited or anything. Tongue [:P])

                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 1:17 PM
                        Re: M3 medium chassis etc...
                        Since the M4 is a direct mechanical descendant of the M3, and in reality the M4 is the M3's 'son' (or daughter?), isn't the M3 still in the 'family'?
                        If you eliminate the M3, then you also eliminate the T-6, early M4's, M7's etc. I say, family is family, including parental units (and grandparental units)!

                        There is sooooooo much latitude in the Sherman 'family' that anybody can have a LOT of fun with this!

                        That's my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong, send money if I'm right... kidding, but you may if you really want to!

                        Ron
                        Report Abuse
                        wipw
                        • Member since
                          January 2003
                        • From: Utah - USA
                        Posted by wipw on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 1:12 PM
                        Well, whatdayaknow!! Thanks, Chris. I'm not up on these "new fangled" (to me) Allied tanks and things!! I don't know an M4 from an M1!! (Okay, so I'm not QUITE that bad!!)

                        Bill
                        Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
                        Report Abuse
                        M1abramsRules
                        • Member since
                          June 2003
                        Posted by M1abramsRules on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:50 PM
                        QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw

                        Why can't he do one of the Hellcats, though??


                        The hellcat wasn't derived from any existing vehicle. It is its own vehicle, unlike the m10 which used the m4 chassis
                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:23 PM
                        I'm new here, but I'd like to get in too.

                        I've got a serious stack of Sherman kits. So, I've got to do some digging to see which it will be.

                        The Sherman has been one of my favorite tanks for years.

                        Time will also be a factor for me because I'm one of the "slow ones" mentioned earlier.

                        What about stuff on the M3 Chassis? Like the M31? Are they legal too, or it this just limited to the M4 upper/lower hull?

                        Thanks.

                        Report Abuse
                        Anonymous
                        • Member since
                          November 2005
                        Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 11:56 AM
                        Alrighty then.......

                        The Jackson it is!
                        Report Abuse
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