ME-262: Reich Defender II 10/09-7/10

Evil Herc wrote:

Frank-This explains 1000 post in a short amount of time!!!! Please disconnect your keyboard and place it on the floor. Look ....theres your Workbench....lol.

Everyone's a comedian LOL.

Daywalker wrote:

Oh boy... Now I've done it!  Ordered myself a Trumpeter 1/32 ME-262 to build here, if only I could find my workbench under the keyboard! LOL...

Frank-This explains 1000 post in a short amount of time!!!! Please disconnect your keyboard and place it on the floor. Look ....theres your Workbench....lol.

Kannichiwa & Arigato-Jason

Oh boy...

Now I've done it!  Ordered myself a Trumpeter 1/32 ME-262 to build here, if only I could find my workbench under the keyboard! LOL...

bondoman wrote:

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing your work on this one! I find it fascinating with the Jumo out front and the cranked wings.

Keep us posted on it!

Woohoo!  You rock Mike.    Thanks for digging that information up for me.

Don't worry Guy, your still Ace in my books and I still want to be your son... even though I'm older...  that's kinda wierd...

Luftwoller wrote:

razordws wrote: Hey Guy, question for you your Aceness (or anyone else that can help).  My Uncle was a WAG in 420 Squadron at the end of the war flying Halifax's over Germany.  On March 31, 1945 his Squadron was making a run on Hamburg when they were attacked by Me 262s.  With all your reference material would you be able to figure out which Me 262 Units would have been in that area?  From my Uncle's journal, "On March 31 496 aircraft including 200 from Six Group set out and delivered a heavy attack on the u-boat assembly facilities in Hamburg.  The raid took place in daylight.  We were unfortunate to run into the Me 262 Jet fighter that intelligence had warned us about. Solid cloud obscurred the target.  The master bomber called for sky markings.  The first waves of aircraft bombed without interference.  Six Group came in the third wave.  We arrived ten minutes late over the target.  Our fighter cover had left earlier with the main body of the bombers.  we were testing out a new gaggle formation that would give us more protection from enemy fighters. As we were on our bombing run about 30 jet fighters rocketed up through the cloud banks below us.  They came with such great speed we seemed to be standing still.  We cosed wingtip to wingtip so the gunners would have a more concentrated field of fire.  When the Jets attacked our gunners were all busy trying to drive them off. We saw at least five bombers go down over the target.  The fighters time in the air must have been limited.  The whole attack lasted less than fifteen minutes.  Our fighters raced back to help us but they were too late.  The Me 262 fighters slipped back into the cloud cover and our fighters couldn't catch up to them." Dave, I think i can say unequivocably that it was JG 44 that attacked your uncle as they were based out of Brandenburg-Briest, which is 50 KM west of Berlin. I re-read my tome and found this, ....On another occasion in late March 1945, Oberfeldwebel Dobnig was forced to make an emergency landing in his 262 after taking off on what would be his 1st - yet abortive -combat mission when sent aloft nto intercept incoming enemy bombers approaching Hamburg. Over Stendal, having been airborne for only a short while, he experienced a severe malfunction in the fuel system, which had, unbeknown to him, been leaking, and he came down with his tanks virtually empty near a hamlet northwest of Stendal. The hamlet had no police station at which he could register his prescence, so Dobnig walked into the tiny post office, from where the post mistress allowed him to call his airfield. He was collected that night by car  and returned to Briest. So that may have been recounting the actuall flight against your uncle, and you never know, Galland, himself (Very possible. He often flew flights with his staffell) may have been up there with the rest of the 262's. ...Guy

This is from Jagdwaffe Vol. 5 Section 4, Jet Fighters and Rocket Interceptors (J. Richard Smith and Eddie Creek):

On the last day of March, 428 Lancaster and Halifax bombers set out to bomb the submarine pens and Blohm and Voss aircraft factory at Hamburg.  Unfortunately for the RAF they arrived too late to rendezvous with the Mustang fighter escort.  As they neared their target 30 Me 262's from I./JG 7 and III./JG 7 struck.  Not having to worry about fighter opposition the jet fighters were able to wreak havoc among the British and Canadian bombers.  The Luftwaffe pilots claimed 13, two short of the number actually lost.  Successful pilots were Oblt. Franz Schall, Oblt. Hans Gruberg, Lt. Hans Todt, Lt. Friedrich Wilhelm Schenck and Fhr. Freidrich Ehring who claimed two each and Oblt. Sturm and Ofw. Reiter each claimed one, plus a probable by Lt. Hans Weihs.

Numbers and location all seem to jibe so looks like this is most likely the event from your Uncle's journal.

razordws wrote:

Hey Guy, question for you your Aceness (or anyone else that can help).  My Uncle was a WAG in 420 Squadron at the end of the war flying Halifax's over Germany.  On March 31, 1945 his Squadron was making a run on Hamburg when they were attacked by Me 262s.  With all your reference material would you be able to figure out which Me 262 Units would have been in that area?  From my Uncle's journal, "On March 31 496 aircraft including 200 from Six Group set out and delivered a heavy attack on the u-boat assembly facilities in Hamburg.  The raid took place in daylight.  We were unfortunate to run into the Me 262 Jet fighter that intelligence had warned us about. Solid cloud obscurred the target.  The master bomber called for sky markings.  The first waves of aircraft bombed without interference.  Six Group came in the third wave.  We arrived ten minutes late over the target.  Our fighter cover had left earlier with the main body of the bombers.  we were testing out a new gaggle formation that would give us more protection from enemy fighters. As we were on our bombing run about 30 jet fighters rocketed up through the cloud banks below us.  They came with such great speed we seemed to be standing still.  We cosed wingtip to wingtip so the gunners would have a more concentrated field of fire.  When the Jets attacked our gunners were all busy trying to drive them off. We saw at least five bombers go down over the target.  The fighters time in the air must have been limited.  The whole attack lasted less than fifteen minutes.  Our fighters raced back to help us but they were too late.  The Me 262 fighters slipped back into the cloud cover and our fighters couldn't catch up to them."

Dave, I think i can say unequivocably that it was JG 44 that attacked your uncle as they were based out of Brandenburg-Briest, which is 50 KM west of Berlin. I re-read my tome and found this,

....On another occasion in late March 1945, Oberfeldwebel Dobnig was forced to make an emergency landing in his 262 after taking off on what would be his 1st - yet abortive -combat mission when sent aloft nto intercept incoming enemy bombers approaching Hamburg. Over Stendal, having been airborne for only a short while, he experienced a severe malfunction in the fuel system, which had, unbeknown to him, been leaking, and he came down with his tanks virtually empty near a hamlet northwest of Stendal. The hamlet had no police station at which he could register his prescence, so Dobnig walked into the tiny post office, from where the post mistress allowed him to call his airfield. He was collected that night by car  and returned to Briest.

So that may have been recounting the actuall flight against your uncle, and you never know, Galland, himself (Very possible. He often flew flights with his staffell) may have been up there with the rest of the 262's.

...Guy

Aggieman wrote:

Some progress to display.  I've been inspired by Jason aka Evil Herc and his incredible work from a few pages ago.  Something about German aircraft makes me want to wire 'em up.  So far most of my wiring work is a work-in-progress but I did attach wiring to the back of the IP and a cable to the control column.  Added a piece of left over PE from a P-40 to replicate an emergency bomb release lever on the right side of the cockpit wall and scratched the throttle.  The seat and belts, and the IP are from the CMK set I'm adding to this build.

Daywalker wrote:

jmabx wrote: Dave - I love reading old journal entries from the war...  Steven- Excellent work on your 'pit, I really like it.   I agree, Jason's work on his is incredible.

Aggieman & Frank-I am very humbled that my work can be an inspiration. I joined these forums to improve my model building skills & have learned plenty. To have Great modelers as yourselves,  say that my work is incredible is just WOW. Thank you Gentleman. Aggieman great work on the pit.

dave-Do you have anymore wonderful first hand accounts??? I love these first hand accounts.

I have completed my gunbay & added about 30 wires to the area. Electronic triggers installed & pnuematic firing mechanism hoses attached. I hope to have pics up later after I get off work.

Kannichiwa & Arigato-Jason

Well hell, I built the last one so I figured I might as well build the first. Arrived from Oz this afternoon, and thanks to Ritchie at Highplanes models for very fast and efficient service.

jmabx wrote:

Dave - I love reading old journal entries from the war...

Steven- Excellent work on your 'pit, I really like it.   I agree, Jason's work on his is incredible.

Some progress to display.  I've been inspired by Jason aka Evil Herc and his incredible work from a few pages ago.  Something about German aircraft makes me want to wire 'em up.  So far most of my wiring work is a work-in-progress but I did attach wiring to the back of the IP and a cable to the control column.  Added a piece of left over PE from a P-40 to replicate an emergency bomb release lever on the right side of the cockpit wall and scratched the throttle.  The seat and belts, and the IP are from the CMK set I'm adding to this build.

Guy, nice job on the U-4

As for IL2, I've just ordered it for my shiny new PSP.

Been playing Blazing Angels on thw Wii for the last two years!

Karl

Luftwoller wrote:

There is only one great flight sim Frank and thats IL2.

   Great game!

Guy - that is a great story!

Dave - I love reading old journal entries from the war... hopefully you can find out some more info.

Here's a Wiki entry with a little more info about the raid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Hamburg_in_World_War_II

Interesting that the RAF/RCAF were making day raids by that point.

Hey Guy, question for you your Aceness (or anyone else that can help).  My Uncle was a WAG in 420 Squadron at the end of the war flying Halifax's over Germany.  On March 31, 1945 his Squadron was making a run on Hamburg when they were attacked by Me 262s.  With all your reference material would you be able to figure out which Me 262 Units would have been in that area? 

From my Uncle's journal,

"On March 31 496 aircraft including 200 from Six Group set out and delivered a heavy attack on the u-boat assembly facilities in Hamburg.  The raid took place in daylight.  We were unfortunate to run into the Me 262 Jet fighter that intelligence had warned us about.

Solid cloud obscurred the target.  The master bomber called for sky markings.  The first waves of aircraft bombed without interference.  Six Group came in the third wave.  We arrived ten minutes late over the target.  Our fighter cover had left earlier with the main body of the bombers.  we were testing out a new gaggle formation that would give us more protection from enemy fighters.

As we were on our bombing run about 30 jet fighters rocketed up through the cloud banks below us.  They came with such great speed we seemed to be standing still.  We cosed wingtip to wingtip so the gunners would have a more concentrated field of fire.  When the Jets attacked our gunners were all busy trying to drive them off.

We saw at least five bombers go down over the target.  The fighters time in the air must have been limited.  The whole attack lasted less than fifteen minutes.  Our fighters raced back to help us but they were too late.  The Me 262 fighters slipped back into the cloud cover and our fighters couldn't catch up to them."

There is only one great flight sim Frank and thats IL2. I cant be certain if they have the U4 version (My pc doesnt play it anymore, Boo) but the graphics and flight dynamics were just awesome. Microsoft just doesnt cut it. Give it a go Frank, youll love it.

I recieved another 262 book today, 'Jagdverband 44, Squadron of Experten' Very good read. One bit that i must retell that made me chuckle was about one of JG 44's pilots, Eduard Schallmoser.

...Flying 'White 11', Unteroffizier Schallmoser was one of the first pilots from JV 44 to attempt to open fire on the B-26's but his MK 108 cannon jammed once again - as he had done on the fourth of April - Schallmoser quickley looked down at this gun firing button, as he did so, the Me262 took him dangerously close to the bomber formation.  when Schallmoser looked up, it was too late.

 attracting fire from the Marauder gunners, 'White 11'  scrapped into the starboard propeller blades of the B-26 piloted by Lt James M Hansen of the 455th BS.  upon impact the jet rolled over and nose down through the enemy fiormation streaming black smoke, with peices of its own debris falling behind it.  One American gunner reported seeing 'parts of the right wing break away'.

Hansen however was able to control his aircraft - even keeping the righthand engine running, despite the blades having been evenly bent 6 inches from their tips - and return successfully to base. 

Good fortune would remain with Schallmoser, for having successfully bailed out of this plumeting aricraft, he parachuted into his mothers garden in the small town of Lenzfried-Im-Allgau! Folding up his parachute and suffering from a painful blow to one of his knees as he left his aircraft, he limped into his family home, where his bewildered mother, fed him with a plate of pancakes....

That tickled me, and i thought youd like it. What would be the chances of bailing out into your mothers own house LOL.

...Guy

Hi all, i found this pic while trolling the net. Its the canon that was fitted to the 262 U4 that i built as well as a few others Me110 JU88 ME410,

Whatawhopper,

...Guy

Happy Birthday Dave, have a great day

Steve

Jon, I'll check my references but I believe an extra fuel tank was sometimes fitted in place of the top two cannons.

Cheers 

Hey Mike, while it's generally true that the dash 2A was only fitted with two guns (the top two being fared over) I have seen reference to quite a few examples where four guns were fitted, so it's a case of check your references.  I'll see if I can dig up any images when I get home.

I read something over the weekend where Col Harold Watson (Watson's Whizzers) was demonstrating a captured 262 to an American General who said something along the lines of "This is the most fantastical airplane I have ever seen, thank god the Germans screwed up it's tactical deployment".

Cheers 

gspatton44, where did you get your copy of Model Art Special issue 367?  It seems like it might be a useful reference, but I can't seem to find any place that would even carry it.

Thanks,

Fred

 Happy Birthday to Dave! The Ol man that he is!

 There was once a time long long ago where Dave could be found doing things like this!

Chasing dark raven haired beauties!

but now many MANY years later  we find all that he rides is this.

Still chasing the girls though!

Hi gs,

While I can't swear to it, my imprerssion is that the necessity of carrying bombs caused a critical full-forward centre-of-gravity situation in the aircraft's trim and removing two of the guns and their ammunition systems brought the C-of-G back within the design's trim compensation range. Takeoff with trim full-aft must have been hairy! The moment the bombs were dropped the pilot would have to crank the elevator trim to full forward to compensate for the absence of their mass. At least, this is my interpretation of the situation in the absence of hard info! Any Experten with firm refs?

You can see how frustrating Hitler's stipulation after the invasion that all new aircraft must be capable of carrying bombs must have been for the designers and pilots alike, as the firepower and handling characteristics of a jet interceptor were being sacrificed to take a half-hearted stab at a job done far better by the Fw 190's ground attack variants.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Masks have arived today! As my buddy on the other side of the pond likes to say Woo Hoo! To much football on tomorrow so Monday night I can get the old 262 production rolling agian.

                                                                                                 Soulcrusher

I finally got my books last night and all I can say is, if you're looking to add detail to these birds, it's definitely worth the effort to track down AeroDetail no. 9.

Between Trumpeter's included detail, Eduard's PE additions and this book, I should be able to come up with one kick-@$$ Stormbird

-Fred