Before They Were Aces-The First Aircraft of the Aces

Great, I'll probably get started tonight, the kit is 1/72. I was rather impressed looking in the box, good looking plastic, plus some resin and PE for less than $20.

Aaronw

Ok, if it is acceptable I'd like to do a Grumman F3F-2, I just got the Special Hobby kit and one of the options is Lt Robert Galer's aircraft in 1940. He went on to become an ace over Guadalcanal in 1942.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Galer

Done, Aaron

My 1st AVG decals from Eagle Strike came in so I am going to enter with Monogram's P-40B with Boyington's number 21 if it's ok with you Hans.  It should be the first of multiple entries.

Done, Satch..

I ordered them direct from Eagle Editions.  http://www.eagle-editions.com/

Satch

Satch_ip may I ask where you got Boyingtons decals from for the P-40 ? I would like to order them for a future build I want to do. A previous build and this group compelled me to create a before they were aces shelf in my display case I wish to add the P-40B to.

Don that is one nice looking P-47, a well done almost finished paint job. hurry up man I want to see her finished.

Don, your P-47 looks really nice, great work all around!

Wabash, I have a photo of Gentile in front of the nose of his Spit Vb in my Osprey book American Spitfire Aces of World War 2.  The caption states it is Spitfire Vb BL255/MD-T.  It has his two kill markings for his success over Dieppe in August 1942.  Hope this helps.

Satch

Hans I have to tell you that I have had more fun researching stuff for this GB.  It has really got me back into the hobby.  I've probably spent 2 or 3 hundred bucks on books, decals, kits, and such.  I hope my wife doesn't read this thread! 

My first request was due to a lack of research and an incorrect reference.  Since then I have delved deeper into the AFAA site and found some cool things.  I found a pilot from Corsicana, Texas named Royal N Baker.  He was a jet ace in Korea but flew Spitfires and Thunderbolts in WWII.  I have an artists profile of his Jug but no decals and I don't have a Jug kit.  I've been researching his Spit and found several photos of 31st FG spits but I can't find a reference to his particular bird.  I'll save him for a future product as well as a passel of 31st FG spits.

I am looking at Heinz Bar's Bf 109 E as it appeared in the early summer of 1940.  Bar got his 5th kill on Aug 23 and his 10th on Sep 9th.  Academy makes that in 48th and 72nd scale.  The quarter scale is on order and i picked up the 72nd scale in Vegas on Saturday.

Hans Joachim-Marsailles also flew Emils and Hasegawa just released that kit.  It is on order too. 

My 1st AVG decals from Eagle Strike came in so I am going to enter with Monogram's P-40B with Boyington's number 21 if it's ok with you Hans.  It should be the first of multiple entries.

Ok, if it is acceptable I'd like to do a Grumman F3F-2, I just got the Special Hobby kit and one of the options is Lt Robert Galer's aircraft in 1940. He went on to become an ace over Guadalcanal in 1942.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Galer

A further update on Fiery Ginger flown by Neel Kearby.  Had some hours of free time this weekend and did some painting of the p-47.  The model was first primed with Mr. Surfacer 1000 and lightly sanded.  Panel lines were hand brushed with Model Master gray and the first coat applied was a mix of Tamiya acrylics; Olive drab and Khaki drab in about a 2:1 ratio. This was sprayed on all but the under surfaces of the aircraft.  Post shading of the panels was then done with the same blend lightened about 1:1 with Tamiya Buff. 

I then cut masking tape and applied it along the sides of the fuselage to demarcate the olive from the neutral grey underside; the tail and leading edges of the wings were also masked since they were painted white on Kearby's aircraft.  After masking, the underside was sprayed with Tamiya neutral grey lightened just a tad with flat white.  Once dry, the wing edges and tail were painted with flat white after masking again to prevent overspray on the already painted surfaces.  After all that, she looked like this:

After drying overnight, everything was given a coat of Future and decals were applied.  I found a Kearby decal sheet here:

http://www.canmilair.com/proddetail.asp?prod=356

Although the "73" in this sheet was printed in black, I contacted the gentleman and asked if he could also print a blue "73" since some of my refs suggest that blue 73 was Kearby's bird.  The decal sheet arrive with both black and blue numbers... bruised 73s!!  I think that I then proceeded to screw up because it was suggested to overcoat the decal sheet with a gloss coat before applying.  I did so with Testors rattle can gloss, but in hindsight, applied it much too heavy.  In the end, the decals were very thick and took multiple applications of SsolvaSet to cure.  Even so, I'm not happy with the finish.  Live and learn; next time, I'll deal with very thin and fragile decals.  That said here she is with markings; those of the Kearby sheet plus a few of the stencils supplied in the kit decals.

This is Fiery Ginger after Kearby's first kills, where he downed two Japanese planes on Sept 4, 1943.  A week later he got his third, before transferring to Ginger III to become an ace.  So the model depicts Fiery Ginger between Spt 4 and Sept 11, 1943.

Next on the agenda, an overspray with diluted Buff/Olive Drab to blend everything together. then some additional weathering with pigments.  Thanks for reading.

Don

Duiker,

Osprey just put out aircraft of the aces # 91 Brewster F2A Buffalo aces of WW2,I hope this helps .

Frank C

I'd imagine that it was the fuselage side-mount gun that was aded later...

Interesting, I knew that his first missions were unarmed, I didn't know that they flew with one gun for a period. I'll have a look and see how much trouble that would be to pull off.

Aaronw

I've got the Revell Nieuport 28 which comes with markings for Eddie Rickenbacker. It looks like he got his 1st six kills in this plane, and then moved over to the SPAD XIII for the remaining 20. Would that be acceptable even though he did fly it as an ace? As far as I can tell the same plane was used for those 6 kills, so he doesn't really have another pre-ace plane.

If you can do the single-gun version..  Rickenbacker's Nieuport 28 initially was equipped with only one gun since there weren't enough guns to go around the 94th to equip every aircraft with two...   

I've got the Revell Nieuport 28 which comes with markings for Eddie Rickenbacker. It looks like he got his 1st six kills in this plane, and then moved over to the SPAD XIII for the remaining 20. Would that be acceptable even though he did fly it as an ace? As far as I can tell the same plane was used for those 6 kills, so he doesn't really have another pre-ace plane.

satch_ip

Bbrowniii, what scale and kit were you contemplating?  I was going to do Boyington's AVG P-40 if I can find the right decals.  I have the old Monogram P-40B but the number on the sheet is 14 and Boyington's first crate was 21.

I have a plan B if you want Boyington.

satch

Nope, satch, you take him...  Like I said, I'm a bit of a 'hanger's on' around this GB.  If I get to it, I will, but otherwise, at least you'll get him done.

satch_ip

Bbrowniii, what scale and kit were you contemplating?  I was going to do Boyington's AVG P-40 if I can find the right decals.  I have the old Monogram P-40B but the number on the sheet is 14 and Boyington's first crate was 21.

I have a plan B if you want Boyington.

satch

No law against the same pilot & plane, Satch... It's your call...

[quote]

Hans, I wanted to let you know that I am still thinking of jumping into this GB with the P-40 of Pappy Boyington...*snip*  ... I've got one GB that I am wrapping up and another  project to complete, then, if time permits, I'll jump into this one.

No sweat...  Just lemme know, Brownie..

In most cases,  the aircraft were assigned to specific pilots, but the pilots also flew whatever aircraft was available.  That means that if you were slated to fly, but your aircraft was deadlined, you didn't get out of the mission, you just flew another one...  A good example of this is Duke Cunningham & Randy Driscol's thre-MiG kill day in May 72, the sortie that made them Aces... They were flying "Showtime 100" (NG 100), which was the CAG's (Commander Air Group,  the guy who owns ALL the aircraft in the Carrier Battle Group)  assigned aircraft, rather than their assigned Phantom, "NG 107"... "Showtime 100" carried the CAG's name on the front canopy rail, while the rear one had the name "Ensign I.M. Fearless", since the CAG didn't have a regular RIO...

Another example is the F4U-1 Corsair  "Lucybelle" (Some will say it's Lulubelle, but that's been more or less disproven since)  that was assigned to Pappy Boyington.  That aircraft was hastily marked for publicity shots of Boyington, and was never assigned to him, he never flew it, it was never even assigned to VMF 214, nor did it ever fly any combat missions...

If aircraft were assigned randomly, would the correct squadron markings be sufficient for this build, excluding named aircraft of course.

A fair number of  named, or personal aircraft were lost while being flown by pilots who had to "borrow" that aircraft...  But in most cases (I'm speaking USAAF here) a pilot would be assigned his own aircarft upon arrival, and it would be "his" aircraft until it was lost or worn out... A good example of this practice would be Tommy McGuire's five different "Pudgy" P-38s..  The US Navy and USMC didn't do that so much, especially the land-based units...

So to answer you question, the answer is, "I don't know"...  You'd have to give me a specific situation...

I have a question about aircraft assignments.  In WWII squadrons, were pilots assigned a specific aircraft or did they fly whatever mount was available.  I am talking more about junior guys more so than the established aces. 

If aircraft were assigned randomly, would the correct squadron markings be sufficient for this build, excluding named aircraft of course.

satch

Bbrowniii, what scale and kit were you contemplating?  I was going to do Boyington's AVG P-40 if I can find the right decals.  I have the old Monogram P-40B but the number on the sheet is 14 and Boyington's first crate was 21.

I have a plan B if you want Boyington.

satch

Hey Hans (and everyone else)

Really impressive progress (and research) so far.

Hans, I wanted to let you know that I am still thinking of jumping into this GB with the P-40 of Pappy Boyington, but I am not going to commit right now.  I'm a little burnt out on GBs these days and don't want to fall in the trap of joining more than I can possibly finish.  I've got one GB that I am wrapping up and another  project to complete, then, if time permits, I'll jump into this one.

Hey Hans, nice recovery from the wheel well SNAFU.  But sorry, don't have any advice on how to deal with the missing stabilizer.  Was it just not included in your kit? 

Thanks, although it was more a "FUBB" than a SNAFU, really... (F***ed Up Beyond Belief for you civilians and the folks in Rio Linda, CA)  Had several with this kit, not the least is the missing stab... I honestly don't know if I lost it or it was never there (my bench is rather"busy", shall we say...). When I first got it, there was no clear parts tree (meaning no canopy, landing light, gunsight, or doors) and Eduard never replied to me, even after numerous emails, about a replacement tree... Luckily, a fellow forum member sent me a set (Dunno where he got it and he asked to reamain anonymous... I like that, lol..)...

Hey Hans, nice recovery from the wheel well SNAFU.  But sorry, don't have any advice on how to deal with the missing stabilizer.  Was it just not included in your kit? 

    A quick update on Neel Kearby's Fiery Ginger.  The construction phase is mostly complete.  Just a few fiddly bits (e.g., antenna, nav lights, etc.) to add after painting; otherwise, I'm certain that I'd just break them off during the process.  The P-38 drop tanks are from a Hasegawa kit and were a gift from forum member RadMax.  I snipped off the locating pins and sanded the pylons to fit the curvature of the P-47 wings.  I think it looks pretty good.  Also, the pics of Kearby's aircraft doesn't show a hard point on the belly so the kit parts were snipped, filled and sanded.  Just about ready to mask off the pit and wells and give her a coat of primer, check and smooth the the seams if necessary, then begin painting.  Just a few pics:

and Neel ready to go....

Don

Heh... Well, I started to detail the wheel wells, and had put in some strip when I noticed that the instructions called for parts I missed.. Turns out there were wheel wells that I was supposed to add BEFORE I glued the wing halves together... D'OH!!!!

But, no worries.. Rather than pull the wings apart, I just sanded off the edges that were supposed to mate with the tops of the wells until they fit right into the wells, then I glued them in place..  It only took a few extra minutes.. I got BIGGER problem though, and that's that I'm missing the right stabilizer..

Pordoi Great start on your P-47, the pit detail is awesome keep up the good work. Thanks for the well done history lesson also, makes this group much more interesting I think.

Wabashwheels your Spitfire is looking good also, cant wait to see more of her. I still have to build a nice Spit one day.

Hans von Hammer What can I say I always like seeing your builds progress. Looks like you are forcing that kit into submission, cant believe the filler needed in the wing roots on a high end kit. Love your work on the office, and cant wait for more WIP pictures.

Satch_ip I would be interested in a Tuskegee Airman GB later in the year, sounds like a good idea to me.

Ok, finally got back to my "Old Crow" (AiraCrowbra?") and attached the wings... Adding the interior parts for the intakes, along with the PE screens turned out to be a waste of time as A: You can't see the screens, and B: They cause the upper wing halves to set too high up to close, even with clamps.. So, I got out the trusty Dremel and ground off the tops of the intakes (shooting one of the screens into the Hinterlands in the process) which allowed the wing halves to close... Still had to use a skoshi bit of putty though.

As you can see from the above, there was a pronounced gap in the left wing/fuselage joint, which I filled with a little bead of Testor's Putty, thinned with alcohol. I later cleaned out the panel lines that got a little putty in 'em and also filled those shrinkage cracks... I also had to fill the joint at the top of the carburator air intake due to the fuselage halves beig one shorther than the other..

 The right wing joined nice & tight, but on the underside, the joint between the trailing edge of the flap and the fuselage was pretty wide, so it got filled, as well and I also cleaned out the flap/fuselage joint...

I'm starting on the main wheel wells tonight as they are void of any detail, just some strip & sprue in order to give them some interest...

Coulpe of things about this kit.. There's some alignment issues, namely the fuselage halves.. The left one is shorter that the right, meaning I have to sande the rudder trailing edge to match the right, and this is olso what caused the gap in the flap/fuselage underside joint.. Also, the trailing edges of the wings are way too thick and I should really have sanded them thinner.. I was just too lazy to do it...

Overall, I'm not all that impressed with the Eduard 'Cobra over the Monogram/Revell version, and I'm not saying it because of my well-known bias towards Monogram... BUT... You'd think that with the price of Eduard's 1/48th kits, it's gonna be a better fit than the Revellogram, but I'm not seeing it..  Sure, there's a bit more detail in the 'pit, and there's the PE and decal selection, as well as flattened tires, but that's not really enough, IMHO.. Glad I didn't have to pay for this one, lol... 

PS:I also noticed that there's a four-bladed prop option for this bird, meaning that there's a chance for a different mark of Airacobra (I can't remember which model it was, only that it never went into propuction)...

Thanks for the help, Ron... I did some work on the CAF's "Project Redtail (P-51C "Tuskegee Airmen")" some years ago and had a brief meeting with Colonel Archer..

As for an "Honorary" build, I'd still have to say no... Archer's not an Ace...  Perhaps you could start a Group Build featuring the Tuskegee Airmen for Febuary, which is Black History Month?

Greetings...I'm Ron Brewington, former National Public Relations Officer, Tuskegee Airmen, Inc. (TAI)...In regards to the status of Tuskegee Airman 1st Lt. Lee Archer as an ace, please note that Archer is currently listed with the Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, AL as having only 4 confirmed kills and is NOT listed as an ace.

There were two other Tuskegee Airmen who got four kills besides Archer: Capt. Joseph D. Elsberry and Capt. Edward L. Toppings.

There were no Tuskegee Airmen aces during WWII.

For more information about the Tuskegee Airmen, please see: http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org