The Official F-4 Phantom II Group Build 2011

Monogram released the C/D kit once in the "High Tech" series with some PE parts included, and markings of my home state, the Arkansas Air Guard Flying Razorbacks. This release was the one who's decals included the badge painted on the actual bird "TAC's Oldest F-4".

There was one on Oldmodelkits.com a while back and it got away......

somenewguy

Kustommodeler1: looks like you and I are doing the same kit. lol

You doing the C or D?

 

Yeah, mine is the Revell Germany release Monogram mold kit # 04583. I'm going to do the "C" of the Hawaii ANG "I'IWI"

Great thing about this kit is they haven't changed anything from the original Monogram tooling at all, not even to upgrade the copyright molded into the plastic. It still says "MMI" on the stabilator from before the merger.

the E's can be fun to track down too, though

there were at least 3 tail tips on them, just in USAF service alone

is your bird an ARN-101 aircraft?,,,,,a big hump on the spine ahead of the UHF?,,,,,those had a tail with 2 very fine antennae sticking out the rear, and a smaller one out the top, at the same angle as the rudder hinge,,,,,,,about the size of fine stretched sprue, I'd say

haha, I got distracted, starting looking at tail tips just now,,,,,,a large assortment of those scattered about from the F-4A to the "Super Phantom",,,,,,,brake chute housings, also

lots of little details to play with

Rex,

I was looking at your pictures and am amazed at the variety in just that one marque. Then I look at the Hasegawa "E" kit that I got for Christmas, the box photo of the real aircraft has no RHAW antennas on the tail fin tip. And it was a "Last of the Gunfighters" marked Phantom from 1992!

Glenn

Jimbot58 -- I would appreciate those mixing ratios for comaparison, I've been looking over a few bits and pieces and this is what I've got so far for the German 1970s regalia:

• RAL 7012 -- Tam XF-24 or Humbrol 92 (topside bluegray)
• RAL 8001 -- MM 2083 RLM 73 (matt equivalent of RAL 6014) (topside dark green)
• RAL 7001 -- Tam XF-22, MM 1741, Hu 128 (Dk. Ghost Gray) (underside on some a/c)

Fujimi's suggestions for the Norm 72 scheme are as follows:

• RAL 7012 -- Gunze H324
• RAL 8001 -- Gunze H304 Olive Drab (Hu 155 equivalent)

The underside of some Norm 72 aircraft was silver, but was this natural metal or were they actually painted silver? Contextually, this is unclear.

The paints listed above are by no means matches, Tam, XF-22 is supposed to be a match for RLM 02, but it's not quite, and if you compare RLM 02 and Dark Ghost Grey in MM or Hu ranges they look pretty different. Gunze makes matches for some of the German paints but not all...

Does anyone know of a definitive mixing guide to the Norm 72 scheme???? Preferably in acrylics...

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Also, unless already posted, lot's of Phantom shots:

http://www.f-4.nl/

Actually Mike/TB379, the kit was cast in 1985 and Kit #4754 has an RF-4E version, but it should be close in any case.

 I can't read the darn numbers due to glare, but you can view my goal at:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/70/F-4F_Phantom_flies_a_refueling_mission.jpg&imgrefurl=http://de.academic.ru/dic.nsf/dewiki/886033&h=983&w=1500&sz=1728&tbnid=1jPgnv5aTgWH8M:&tbnh=98&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Df-4f%2Bphantom&zoom=1&q=f-4f+phantom&usg=__xuNH4VS60eioN2b0sjWeMWcaX8o=&sa=X&ei=u0QmTb7ANtGmnQeYovzoAQ&ved=0CB0Q9QEwAg

here's the beginning of the "parts guide" I said I'd do for you guys,,,,,,,,,it's a little "NavAir centric" (what a shock, eh?)

before I post the combos observed part, I am going to re do it and check my work,,,,,,I noticed something in my digging for photos,,,,,,,,which only proves the point that the poster benefits from doing this stuff also, not just other modelers

okay, copied direct from my HD work notes pages

I am going to start with the F-4B's, because I need the info for a group build I am participating in

first off, I had to assign unique names to all the various parts, in order for Paradox to sort them correctly,,,,,so, some of the names won't "fit" your idea of F-4B parts,,,,but in the large list of all versions of Phantoms, they make sense

here are the three noses seen on F-4B

the "F-4C" nose (used on F-4B and F-4C)



the "F-4B" nose (used on F-4B and F-4D)



and the "F-4N" nose (used on F-4B and F-4N)



there is a 4th nose, seen on some QF-4's, but, all the images I have of it are copyrighted,,,,,,,it has a clear front tip, with a camera? in it

next the tail tips

the "F-4A" tail tip with no ECM gear in it



the "F-4B" tail tip with RHAW gear in one fairing at the rear



the "F-4N" tail tip with RHAW gear in fairings at the front and the rear



lastly, the Stabilators,,,,,early non-slotted



and the later Slotted stab



well, that pretty much shows the parts I'll be talking about,,,,,,,,,,all photos are USN/USMC credits, except the stab shots,,,,,,I had to use USAF for those

I'll need a bit of time to dig through all the pics again, if I say "six F-4B's",,,,,,I want to make sure there weren't seven or eight, lol

more later on

Rex

Well my kit arrived just now./  I was pleasantly surprised.  It was supposed to be an old bagged kit but they sent me a still sealed in the box new kit. :)  Now as soon as the paint and my airbrush arrives, I can get started.

TarnShip

nuts !! Berney,,,,,,,,I guess I will take his other stuff "with a grain of salt" from now on, then

with this MER/TER error, and the Skyhawk errors he keeps repeating,,,,,his "info" is on the "shakey internet ground" from here on out with me,,,,,,,he does post some great pictures there, though

Don't, repeat, don't send Uncle Arthur over my way when his visit with you is done,,,,,,he comes around and bothers my Tingers enough on his own

sorry to hear that, it bites some days, eh?

Rex

Ask that guy if he has ever heard of an EMER (Expanded Multiple Ejector Rack) which could hold up to nine bombs.  It was tested on the B-52 pylon and would come un glued after getting airborne.  They tried loading nine MK-117's but it wouldn't hold together.  It was found that by loading two MER's on the wing pylon the B-52 could carry twelve bombs.  The EMER never made it past the testing phase. 

I think Arthur is going to stay around for a few days, until the cold damp weather goes away.  Once it warms up he takes off and I don't see him until it turns cold and damp again.

nuts !! Berney,,,,,,,,I guess I will take his other stuff "with a grain of salt" from now on, then

with this MER/TER error, and the Skyhawk errors he keeps repeating,,,,,his "info" is on the "shakey internet ground" from here on out with me,,,,,,,he does post some great pictures there, though

Don't, repeat, don't send Uncle Arthur over my way when his visit with you is done,,,,,,he comes around and bothers my Tingers enough on his own

sorry to hear that, it bites some days, eh?

Rex

I ordered a set of dry transfer panel markings for my Phantom.  My jet was fresh out of the factory and had every panel marked in black.  It is going to be fun getting all of those on.    

I had an old friend stop by.  Due to the changing weather, Arthur Ridas has decided to visit for a few days.  I am on hold with sanding until he goes away.    

TarnShip

oh, and you could make a pair of TERs, maybe, out of a MER,,,,,,,,that's how they were "invented" in the first place, by cutting the MER in half,,,,,,,,,just read that on the Replica in Scale blog a few days ago

TER's were in use long before the MER's came on the scene.  A MER is nothing more than two TER's with an extension added.  Someone gave you the wrong information.

kustommodeler1

As to the stab beef up plate....I guess I don't know a lot of Phantom lore to be sure of what that is....

A stab beef up plate is the wedge shaped scab patch located on top of the horizontal stab just where the four panels attach to the center torque box.  The torque box is a one piece "H" shaped milled titanium structure laying on its side which forms the main load carrying capability of the stab.  The beef up plate was a quick fix for small stress cracks forming on the torque box.  It worked so well aircraft started coming off of the assembly line with the beef up plate installed.

Another quick fix to a problem was the addition of beef up plates on the fuel dumps located just outboard of the ailerons next to the outboard wing section.  It was found that the fuel dump standpipes were flexing under high G loads and causing the attaching screws to elongate the mounting holes.  A beef up plate was installed to reinforce that area to prevent flexing.  This mod was done in 1976/1977 time frame. 

That is your Phantom lesson for today.  Test will follow tomorrow.     

Thunderbolt379

Glenn -- that's a fantastic resource and I've bookmarked it immediately. Now the hunt is on for any matches or mixing ratios to derive those FS or RAL equivalents in model paints...

Cheers, Mike (thumbing through the MM list with no luck and seaching everywhere for the old Humbrol comparison chart that had an RAL section...)

I do have Testors/Italeri's mixing guide for those colors from the instructions. I was just hoping to find something already mixed. I will copy them here later but have no time now, I must be off to the slave mill.

Thought I'd throw this on for a little inspiration....

Sparrow and Rex,

Thanks for the ARC link and location. That's a great resource.

Glenn

Kustommodeler1: looks like you and I are doing the same kit. lol

You doing the C or D?

I love that decal sheet! Wonder if i could buy one from Revell...?

Just won two more Hasegawa 48s on eBay today, a -G and a -C/D, to join the stash! Oh, and a(nother) 1:72 RF-4C...

Cheers, M/TB379

jimbot58

 

 

 

A scanned copy of the decal sheet. Appears that many data decals are included and instructions warn that they are recommended for experienced modelers only. Note that the white is there around the crosses-they just didn't show up on the scan.

I also have 2 sheets of Phantom data decals (AM) that I bought years ago as a close-out. As to the stab beef up plate....I guess I don't know a lot of Phantom lore to be sure of what that is....

Yeah, I'm looking forward to stenciling my Hawaii Air National Guard bird:

Thanks.  I'll check it out.

TarnShip

Rich, if you go to forums, jets, and look at the pinned topics, there's an F-4 builder's guide there

I think it can be read without being a forum member, I'm not sure on that though

Rex

Rich, if you go to forums, jets, and look at the pinned topics, there's an F-4 builder's guide there

I think it can be read without being a forum member, I'm not sure on that though

Rex

While looking around for detail info I found this site.  It has a ton of photos of just about every Phantom varient and model you can think of from various services.  Along with a lot of other planes.  It looks like a great place to get a good look at detailing.  I have a couple of ideas already for some scratch extra detail from looking at details there.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/

Thunderbolt379

Glenn -- that's a fantastic resource and I've bookmarked it immediately. Now the hunt is on for any matches or mixing ratios to derive those FS or RAL equivalents in model paints...

Cheers, Mike (thumbing through the MM list with no luck and seaching everywhere for the old Humbrol comparison chart that had an RAL section...)

Glenn -- that's a fantastic resource and I've bookmarked it immediately. Now the hunt is on for any matches or mixing ratios to derive those FS or RAL equivalents in model paints...

Cheers, Mike (thumbing through the MM list with no luck and seaching everywhere for the old Humbrol comparison chart that had an RAL section...)

I found a website with some FS numbers for the Luftwaffe Norm 72 scheme. Hope this helps....

Glenn

http://www.amarc.dk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=28

well, thanks, that does narrow it down a bit to only a couple of years "in transition"

same with the Navy on the B's, during some years after the J production started, and before the last new B was built, you'll see both types of Stab on a B,,,it wasn't unusual to see a mix of Stabs, Noses, and Tail tip ECM in the same squadron,,,,,ashore or on the cruise

that's why we can't now point to a squadron and say with authority "VF-32 had this config for it's Med cruise with F-4B's",,,,all we can do is say "15xxxx as pictured looked like this in May of 1972",,or whatever

another note for the AF file

I'm learning a lot in this thread about the camo side of the Phantom

Thank you

Rex

TarnShip

geez, Berney, what a soup, eh?

(props feet up on coffee table, hands everyone a beverage of their choice, cradles coffee mug in both hands)

Your stab wedge plate comment is what just made me realize why there has never been a "truly complete" modeling book done on all the Phantom variants (as opposed to a book on the real thing). So many versions, and then so many variations of each version. Any complete book would have to be 200 pages of hardbound, and even if everything printed so far about the real jets was used, something would get missed.

I just read a thread somewhere, can't remember where, talking about the Wedge plate being a running change,  and older birds getting it added as they went through rework,,,,but, can't recall where it was. (oh, I just remembered one thing, it was about the E's)

The Naval based aircraft never had them, even though they are in almost every kit,,,,,,,so, I have no clue when or if any of the non USAF operators got them, or when. I just did a quick thumb-thru of "Spirit", and looking at the pics and dates, I can't see any logical "after this date, all AF derived aircraft had them", or anything like that

all I can tell, it's no on the USN, USMC, FAA, RAF,,,,,,,looks like no on the RAAF, but yes on the F-4F ICE, and the Japanese planes, and very variable on the USAF,,,,,C's and RF's started without them,,,,but, the EF-4C's had them,,,,,,etc

and that is an angle that is usually obscured in a lot of inflight shots

"look at the pics" is all I can come up with on Wedge plates

hmmm, cup's empty, time for a refill,,,,,,,talk later,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Rex

the "what a soup" was about the aircraft, not about people,,,,just to be clear

The reason for the beef up plate was the stab torque box was cracking, right at the join area.  No cracks are allowed at all on the torque box.  A fast fix was to install the beef up plate at the joint to prevent flexing.  At about the same time MDD was producing the F-4J which had slots built on the leading edge of the stab.  The stab had the torque box reinforced out of thicker material so the beef up plate wasn't needed.  The new stab was also used on the F-4N and retro fitted to the F-4B.

MDD had so many of the "old" stabs they continued to use them on the F-4E even though that model had slots installed.  Eventually enough stabs with the heavy torque box was produced and slowely replaced the old type.  It would be impossible to say which aircraft had the old or new type.  The F-4C/D and RF-4C did not use the slotted stab so all of theirs would have the beef up plate.  The F-4E/G could be seen with and without the beef up plate, those without having the newer stab.

The beef up plates started to appear around the end of 1969.  By 1970/1971 almost all USAF jets had been modified by teams sent in from Depot to do the mod.  They could not be done at local level because a special jig had to be used for drilling the holes in the torque box. 

Thanks.  With any luck, it will show up today.

berny13

 

 

 

The British Phantoms used the LAU-7/A launcher, the same launcher used by the U.S. Navy.  The common U.S. Air Force launcher was the AERO-7/B.  A set of AIM-9 launchers should be included with the kit.  The British Phantoms used the AIM-9D/H/L & M Missiles, the same as USN Phantoms.  I have what you need so if your kit doesn't have the correct equipment, let me know. 

 

Son Of Medicine Man

jimbot58:

Search and search and finally I find a decent photo of what I might like to do with the Italeri F-4. The black and gray diagram included with the kit made it hard to visualize. It also could give be a better idea of the colors used.The decals included are exactly these with the only difference being the numbers. Kit supplies 37+77

Duh....me forget to include picture.....

 

That is a sweet looking aircraft!

Ken

That's the scheme I had in mind when I started looking for a German phantom. Love it.

Rough as Guts -- welcome to the build, I've added your project to the leader post on Page 1.

Cheers, Mike/TB379