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Red Storm Rising 25th Anniversary GB

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  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Freeport, IL USA
Red Storm Rising 25th Anniversary GB
Posted by cdclukey on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:45 PM

This August marks the 25th anniversary of the publication of Red Storm Rising, Tom Clancy's novel of WWIII in Europe and the Atlantic. This build gives us a chance to commemorate a great book, build some Cold War kits and be glad the balloon never went up. Here are the rules:

1. All categories of subjects (planes, armor, ships, cars, figures, space) are welcome.

2. The subject must meet one of the following criteria:

A. It appears in the book.

B. It served in Europe or the Atlantic in 1985-1987. The book takes place in 1987, BTW, though that is never said explicitly.

C. USN Pacific Fleet equipment is OK if it's home-ported in Pearl or San Diego, since ships from those locations come through the Panama Canal halfway through the book.

Though I'm not going to be a stickler about specific units (for example, an F-15 doesn't have to be a Black Knights or ASAT F-15) try to get it right. An F-16 based in Korea doesn't really fit. I also may make exceptions for things that would have been in the fight but aren't mentioned specifically, but I want to hear your case. 

If you're not sure about something fitting in the build, run it by me. My goal is to be as inclusive as possible while keeping it reasonable.

3. Build any scale you want. All aftermarket stuff is OK. Kits that have been started can be included as long as they are less than 50% complete. It's acceptable to cross over with models that are involved in other group builds.

4. The build runs from 15 January 2011 to 15 June 2012. I picked 15 June because that's the day the war kicks off in the book, and 17 months should give the ship modelers plenty of time.

Here's the roll call:

Agent G--                       Tamiya M2A Bradley

Beav--                            Possible F-19

BigSmitty--                     1/72 Hasegawa P-3C "Penguin 8"
                                       Possible 1/350 USS Pharris

cdclukey--                      1/350 Airfix HMS Trafalgar built as HMS Torbay

                                         1/350 Dragon USS Ticonderoga (tentative)

Hans von Hammer--       Tamiya T-62A

Stikpusher--                    To be determined

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 5:53 PM

An F-16 based in Korea doesn't really fit.

There was mention of Norwegian F-16s though, or possibly they were Dutch...  Anyway, they engaged some of the Backfires (?) early on, IIRC...  Can't check it out to make sure.. That's in the part of the book I'm missing... But no, no USAF F-16s were in it...

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:01 PM

Oh, yeah.. Put me down for a Tamiya T-62A from one of the Soviet "B"-units.. Probably Polish...

was gonna do SFC Ken MacKall's 11th ACR M1A-Nuttin',  but when I went to look for it, I discovered it was one of the missing kits from last summer's burglary... 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:03 PM

Put me down, subject TBD. I have a lot to choose from.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: Minneapolis MN
Posted by BigSmitty on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:09 PM

I'm in...

At a bare minimum, I'll be doing a Hasegawa 1/72 P-3C "Penguin 8".  I looked up all the VP squadons and detachment listings, found a det that was at Keflavik in 1985 (as opposed to the dets going to sunny Rota).  Kit doesn't have those markings, so I will probably bash some markings together, I have a ton of spare decals.

If I can find a decent 1/350 Knox FF, I'll build the Pharris, after getting it's bow torn off.

Matt - IPMS #46275

"Build what ya love and love what ya build..."

Build Logs, Rants and Humor

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Florida
Posted by Railfan 233 on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 6:26 PM

You could probably put me in as a mabe.

I do have several aircraft that could fit the Cold War erea (and possibly the time the book covers) but I've never read Red Storm Rising, or any other Tom Clancy novel, so I got no clue what aircraft/ vehicles were used .

I'll try to get myself a copy, and read it over. Afterwards, I'll make my choice of kit (if I have any that will work) If I don't have any kits in my stash that are mentioned in the book, I'll choose another kit and plea my (it's) case.

 

  

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpgRed, White, and YOU! group build of 2010

  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:01 PM

I've never read Red Storm Rising

GASP!

Wow...

It's far and away Clancy's best work, next to Without Remorse...  

 Red Storm  Rising is basically World War Three... Arab Terrorists manage to destroy the USSR's largest Oil refinery, which in a few months plunge the Soviet Union into darkness, no electricity, no gas, no harvests, anything that needs oil, is gonna be outta fuel or un-makeable leaving Ivan in big trouble with a starving population.  So they decide that in order to keep that from happening, they must take over the oil fields in the Middle East by invading Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia, et al...

In order for this plan to be successful though, they must first eliminate all NATO Forces in Western Europe, and do it before the US can mount REFORGER. So they launch an elaborate  maskirovka (masquerade)  which involves unrestricted sea, air, and land operations in Western Europe and  the Atlantic Ocean, although they pull ALL their ballistic missile subs (Boomers) into port, so they're out of the fight. They don't want to go nuke or, on land,chem/bio..

In the beginning, they're pretty successful, going through the Fulda Gap into West Germany, and they put a damn-damn on the US Navy's Atlantic Fleet as well, invading Iceland with little resistance after a surprise attack on the USAF there, leaving the SOSUS line with huge gaps in the North Atlantic, through which Ivan's attack subs can go through undetected.  They, along with the Red Air Force, raise hell with the merchant shipping trying to make it to port in England and France, and the US is stuck doing REFORGER and about the same speed it used in WW2, while the forward-based units of the US and NATO are getting their collectives azzes kicked, and it looks like NATO is gonna lose this one...

Not to write an entire synopsis, but if you can build whatever was "painted green" and shoots at you when the Cold War goes Hot in the mid-80s, that's the deal..

It was one helluva scary book if you were a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine in the 80s...  It also should have been the FIRST Clancy novel made into a movie, but there's no way it could have been done in 100 minutes... It'd have to have been done, at a minimum, af a trilogy, like Star Wars was done initially... Would've taken 12 years to make, and would have actually covered a time-frame of about a real-world month, which is about how long the novel-time lasted, not counting the initial terrorist attack and the ramping-up to war... That took about six months, IIRC... But the actual "shooting war" was less than a month.. 

Anyway, US armor would be without "A"s anywhere, except for M60s and M113s, lol.. New armor, it would be mostly Bradleys and Abrams' without an "A" anything, and not a lot of them... The Stealth fighter in the book was based on the Testor's F-19 and called a "Frisbee" in the book by the pilots..

The fictional "Soviet" Testor's Stealth Fighter, the "MiG 37B Ferret-E" didn't show up in the book...

Tamiya's "Modern Armor Boom" of the late 80s was due to that book too, IMHO...

Basically, you can build anything that would have been floating, flying, or rolling in the early 80s, NATO or Warsaw Pact...  But no F-15Es, no F-117s, B-2s, Challenger IIs, or that kind of stuff..  Just 70s and early 80s military stuff...

Maybe someone will do the "Order of Battle", lol...

 I'll make my choice of kit (if I have any that will work) If I don't have any kits in my stash that are mentioned in the book, I'll choose another kit and plea my (it's) case.

It's probably the easiest route to just ask that, yeah... Rather than listing what CAN be done, just pick some kits out you want to do and ask if they can "play"...

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:55 PM

The curse of two of my favorite books being on the third world war in the 80s is that I can't keep them straight (the other one is Team Yankee, by Harold Coyle; a MUST READ for all modern period modelers).  

I will most definitely be in this one, with at least one, possibly two kits (one would probably be the Testors F-19 mocked up as one of the 'Frisbees of Dreamland')  If I do a wingy-thing, it would be a definite break of the mold, because I simply don't build planes.  I can't remember, are there any western or soviet air defense weapons in the book?  I know that there are some air defense weapons at Keflavik (American?  but Soviet for sure.)  I know Shilkas, Stinger MANPADS, and Vulcans appear in Team Yankee, but its escaping my memory for Red Storm.

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Freeport, IL USA
Posted by cdclukey on Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:44 PM

All participants up to now have been added. Now, for housekeeping traffic...

Hans von Hammer
There was mention of Norwegian F-16s though, or possibly they were Dutch...  Anyway, they engaged some of the Backfires (?) early on, IIRC... 

Yep, Norwegian. One of them jumped the MiGs sent to Iceland and some others tried for the retreating Backfires that mauled the Nimitz battle group.

BTW, as for those burglars...I hope they hang the bastards.

Railfan-- Hans is right...it's probably more efficient to just ask. However, just off the top of my head we have the F-14, F-15, F-16,F-18, F-8 (French Navy), B-52, P-3, Jaguar, Tornado, MiG-29, A-10, F-111, F-19 "Ghostrider" stealth fighter, IL-86, IL-76, Hip, Hind, A-7, Blackhawk, Seahawk, Sea King, Lynx, Backfire, Badger, Bear.

Beav-- I'm really, really hoping for an F-19.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:01 AM

Ah yes the F-8E (FN)... I have one of those...Hmm

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:02 AM

Ditto on Harold Coyle's Team Yankee ...

A must read for fans of DATs...

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, January 13, 2011 12:05 AM

I can't remember, are there any western or soviet air defense weapons in the book?

I'm sure I remember ZSU-23-4s at the bridge site the Frisbees took out, and I think there was more than one reference to the M247 Sergeant York DIVAD...

Any of you ADA guys here remember THAT white elephant? Tamiya sunk a bunch of money into that kit, followed by Academy, and then the Army axed the program..  After the Army sunk about 6.5 billion (with a "B") into it for 12  tracks (with 41 more in the pipeline) in it as well...  Back then, "What if" builds didn't get done as much, so when the Sgt York "died", so did the kit sales... Wish I'd grabbed a couple now...

Seems that when it was demonstrated in front of all the Pentagon Brass and key members of the SenateArmed Services Committee, the automated fire-control system, which was designed to home in on the spinning rotors of a hostile helicopter, decided that, rather than engaging the drone helicopter target, the whirling blades of a latrine exhaust fan about a half-mile away was a more enticing target and the twin 40mm Bofors turned the latrine into kindling... One gun also engaged a tree after evaluating its threat level and picking it as a target rather than a another drone.

In Red Storm Rising, the Sgt York lived up to its name though and blotted some Yak 28 Brewers and Il28 Beagles from the sky, although those were some Soviet-satellite country's aircraft, and not USSR... 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, January 13, 2011 2:02 PM

At the Soviet bridging site I do recall ADA assets being listed, but not the type (got an SA-6, SA-13, and ZSU-23-4 in the stash...). I need to pull the book off the shelf and read it again. Sounds like a good excuse to me.

Did Clancy mention the Sgt York in the book? I dont remember that part...Hmm

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Thursday, January 13, 2011 2:46 PM

Hmm, well, SGT YORK is still our misfit baby (as are all of our developmental systems see: THEL, SLAMRAAM, MEADS, and some of the more archaic anti-ICBM systems, SPARTAN, SPRINT, etc.)  My personally favorite SGT YORK story is that they couldn't get the computer to transition from tracking a high speed jet to tracking a stationary hovering helicopter.  Besides, by the time SGT YORK was even really conceived gun AA systems were definitely on their way out.  Vulcan and Chaparral only came about as quick fixes before a more permanent SHORAD system, Avenger could come into play...which in itself was an interim until SLAMRAAM could be fielded.  20 years later and we still haven't got something from that program.

I think you can definitely put me down for an F-19, but I'll need a full reread to pick out the ground system that I want to build (maybe a soviet truck of some sort that would figure in the scene where the Frisbees blow up the Western Commander's column after bombing the underground POL site.

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • From: Florida
Posted by Railfan 233 on Thursday, January 13, 2011 3:09 PM

Thanks for giving me a little background on the book, Hans. I'm hooked now. I've got to get myself a copy soon.

Now knowing what I know about the equipment used in the book, I can say definately that I'm going to be in for this build.  I'll find a good kit to build this weekend.

  

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpgRed, White, and YOU! group build of 2010

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by Medicman71 on Thursday, January 13, 2011 3:44 PM

Yep. That was the book that got me hooked too. I just picked up Clancy's new book..."Dead Or Alive". I have a Tomcat that i'm using in another group build that I can use here. Been a while since I read the book. Was there specific Tomcat squadrons mentioned?

Building- (All 1/48) F-14A Tomcat, F-16C Blk 30, He 129

 

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: Minneapolis MN
Posted by BigSmitty on Thursday, January 13, 2011 4:09 PM

For F-14 Tomcat squadrons in the mid-80s for Red Storm Rising, use either VF-84 or VF-41, as they were the 2 F-14 squadrons on CVN-68 at the time.  Could possibly use hi viz (late 70s/early 80s) markings but by that time most squadrons had been ordered to tone down markings (gray on gray blah schemes).

If you can't find those, any kit with a tail code starting with an "A" is good for an Atlantic Fleet F-14.  PACFLT squadron tail codes all start with "N".  Hasegawa's long OOP "F-14 Atlantic Fleet Squadrons" was awesome, as it had decals for 8 or 9 different LANTFLT squadrons.  Might be able to find it on ebay quite cheap.

Here's a set of pretty definitive VF-84 markings through the years, from Afterburner decals... not worth $20 in my opinion, but a good reference.  You'll see low viz to hi viz and switching back and forth through the years.

 

Matt - IPMS #46275

"Build what ya love and love what ya build..."

Build Logs, Rants and Humor

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by Medicman71 on Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:43 PM

Hmmmmm. Doesn't look like my Tomcat will work then. I'm doing a VF-1 Wolfpack Tomacat. And I really don't want to do yet another "Bones" F-14. Not that I don't like the markings (I love them really), it's just that everyone has done that squadron too many times.

Building- (All 1/48) F-14A Tomcat, F-16C Blk 30, He 129

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, January 13, 2011 7:10 PM

VF-1 had a long association with USS Enterprise. She was transferred from Alameda to Norfolk in 1989 so potentially she could be a game player. I dont recall her being in the book.

Carriers I recall off the top of my head are Nimitz, Saratoga, Foch, and IIRC America. There are probably more listed.

Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on the book for those who have not read it. Spoiler Alert!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Storm_Rising

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Freeport, IL USA
Posted by cdclukey on Thursday, January 13, 2011 8:33 PM

Hans-- I've read The Ten Thousand, but not Team Yankee. The Ten Thousand definitely did not light my fire.

Beav-- To answer your air defense question, there are SA-6s defending the bridge the Frisbees hit, and SA-11s and ZSUs on Iceland. If I come across any others as I go through the book, I'll let you know.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, January 13, 2011 9:22 PM

The last book of Coyle's that I read was "More Than Courage". That one I really enjoyed.

I pulled Red Storm off my shelf this afternoon and am skiming thru it right now to see what hardware is listed. So far I have a good little list going.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Thursday, January 13, 2011 11:14 PM

Awesome guys, thanks.  I might get a SA-6 going too; who knows!

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, January 14, 2011 4:36 AM

cdclukey

Hans-- I've read The Ten Thousand, but not Team Yankee. The Ten Thousand definitely did not light my fire.

Team Yankee was Coyle's first novel and as far as I'm concerned, the best one at that... No females in line units either...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Friday, January 14, 2011 12:18 PM

Team Yankee was by far the best.  I enjoyed some of the others, but Team Yankee was the most original.  I've got a wargame that allows you to control down to the platoon level, its funny because the 'Team Yankee' in the game is structured exactly like the books'.  10 M1s, 2 M901s, and 1 Mech platoon.

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 15, 2011 12:45 AM

 

OK, so last nite I skimmed thru Red Storm Rising and tried to jot down all the different equipment types listed in the story. Needless to say there is a LOT!!! In some cases, Mr Calncy never got down to specific types. And of course he left out all the different support type vehicles in use at the time that had no active role in the story. But here is a list of stuff by types...

Ships:

USS Nimitz, USS New Jersey, USS Kidd

USS Saratoga, USS Iowa, USS Bunker Hill

USS Independence, USS Ticonderoga, USS Tarawa

USS America, USS Vincennes, USS Guam

USS Coral Sea, USS Wainwright, USS Saipan

USS Inchon, USS Newport ,USS Charleston

USS Groves, USS Nassau, USS Sims

USS Yorktown, USS Ponce, USS Caron

USS Pharris, USS Gallery, USS Midway

USS Talbot, HMS Battleaxe, HMS Illustrious,

Subs:

USS Groton, USS Key West, USS Providence

USS Narwahl, USS Chicago, USS Boston

USS Pittsburg, HMS Trafalgar, HMS Torbay

HMS Osirus, HMS Oberon, HMS Superb

HMS Sceptre, HMNS Kobben,

Soviet Ships/Subs

Kiev,  Kirov,   Kresta II Class

Sovremenny Class, Udaloy Class, Krivak Class

Grisha Class, Mirka Class, Juliet Class

Echo Class, Tango Class, Foxtrot Class

Victor III Class, Papa Class, Akula Class

Oscar Class, Charlie Class, November Class,

Natya Class

 

That's just the ships...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:03 AM

 

For Aircraft the list is even longer:

NATO Fighter/Strike/Recon/EW:

F-19, F-111F, Tornado GR.1/ADV, F-15

F-4, F-16, EA-6B/A-6/KA-6, A-7

F8E(FN), F-14, S-3A, FB-111

RF-5, Jaguar, A-10, Alpha Jet

Mirage (F-1C or 2000 not specified), F-104G, F/A-18

AV-8 TR-1, RC-135, EF-111

 

Bombers/Patrol/Transport/:

E-3A, P-3C, C-141, B-52H

C-130, E-2C, KC-10, C-5A

Nimrod, Shackleton, C-9,

 

Helicopter:

SH-2F, Lynx, CH-53E, AH-1J/T/W (not specified)

AH-1S/AH-64 (not specified type), UH-60, SH-60

 

Warsaw Pact:

MiG-25 Su17/24/25 (fighter bomber not specified), Tu-16

Tu-22, Tu-22M, MiG-23, MiG-29

MiG-21, Il-76, An-22, Tu-95

Il-86, A-50, Il-38

 

Helicopter:

Mi-8/17, Mi-24, Ka-25

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:11 AM

 

And the shortest list- the ground vehicles:

NATO

M1 Abrams MBT, M-109 SPG, Leopard II MBT,

German Wheeled APC (Poss Fuchs), German Tracked APC (Poss. Marder)

Challenger MBT, Chieftan MBT, Bradley Fighting Vehicle,

Roland SAM,

 

Warsaw Pact:

T-80 MBT, T-72 MBT, T-55 MBT

BMP-1 IFV, BMD-1 AIFV, BTR series APC (60/70/80 not specified)

Unk type MLRS, Towed 152mm Gun, ZSU-30 SP AAA

SA-6 SP SAM, SA-11 SP SAM,

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:07 AM

Which company makes the best M2/M3 for the era?  I know Academy and Tamiya have some out there, and that they need to be modified to represent current (or actual, in some cases) vehicles, but are any prepared to build for Red Storm straight out of the box?

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Freeport, IL USA
Posted by cdclukey on Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:24 AM

Stikpusher-- Great list,thanks for doing it. Could you add the IL-86 to the Pact aircraft list?

Hans-- I might check Team Yankee out. Lord knows most writers can't be judged by one novel.

Has anyone read General Sir John Hackett's  The Third World War? I understand it was the basis for Coyle's scenario in Team Yankee. There is some brilliant thinking in it but the problem is he wrote a real snoozer. Some of his battle predictions are quite optimistic and some of his political predictions are way too pessimistic, like Jamaica being a second Cuba. The one that really bit him in the butt was Iran (important parts of his scenario turn on Iran remaining a staunch ally of the West in general and America specifically), but almost nobody saw Khomeni's revolution coming.

As for women in line units...yeah. Too many people, even military professionals, don't realize that these restrictions aren't about what's between the soldier's legs, it's about what muscles are in the soldier's upper body. To quote R. Lee Ermey, "I want the Marine next to me to be able to pick me up and haul ass if I get wounded."

Note that the above is not an invitation to talk politics, folks.

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:30 AM

Which company makes the best M2/M3 for the era?  I know Academy and Tamiya have some out there, and that they need to be modified to represent current (or actual, in some cases) vehicles, but are any prepared to build for Red Storm straight out of the box?

There's that "best kit" thing again...Bang Head Stick out tongue 

Nothin' personal, Beav... It's just that that question gets asked so often that there oughtta be a separate forum just for that question... Wink

That's gonna be pretty subjective and specific to the modeler, Beav.. But in this case, the Tamiya M2 "A-Nothing" (# 3632 ) kit is about the only "best kit" out there for the RSR-era... IIRC, the M2 kit form Academy was made using Tamiya's molds...

 

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