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Red Storm Rising 25th Anniversary GB

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  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, January 15, 2011 9:33 AM

Has anyone read General Sir John Hackett's  The Third World War? I understand it was the basis for Coyle's scenario in Team Yankee. There is some brilliant thinking in it but the problem is he wrote a real snoozer. Some of his battle predictions are quite optimistic and some of his political predictions are way too pessimistic, like Jamaica being a second Cuba. The one that really bit him in the butt was Iran (important parts of his scenario turn on Iran remaining a staunch ally of the West in general and America specifically), but almost nobody saw Khomeni's revolution coming.

Oh yeah... Read it before any of the others, and it was indeed Coyle's inspiration for Team Yankee.

And ditto again on the "Snoozer".. It was a "future history" textbook more than any kind of novel... Took me a while to get through it... Kept dozing off...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Saturday, January 15, 2011 10:10 AM

Hans, I'm so glad that I committed that faux pas which made you bang your head against a 'wall'.  I'm relatively unfamiliar with modern US Armor and the kits of said equipment...so perhaps I should have left best out of my sentence.  

Anyways, I did not intend to start up that conversation here, so, my sincere apologies. Wink  And Hans, I have thick skin, and I usually always say, or do something stupid and regrettable at work everyday...you could say I'm used to it.

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 15, 2011 12:28 PM

CD, I have updated the list and added the Il-86 as you requested. I also added the Il-38 May and A-50 Mainstay (they were identified by NATO codename in the book and not by nomenclature). Another point, The ZSU-30 never was a production vehicle in service. I dont know where Mr Clancy based his info for that system, but the the 80s the vehicle used in that role was the ZSU-23-4.

I read Hackett's book. I also have the companion book he wrote. The Third World War, The Untold Story. It has more of the battlefield scenarios that the first book was lacking except for in it's opening chapter. Of interest is that it follows a Soviet Motor Rifle Lieutenant thru much of the "war". It was written a few years later and it ties up some of the loose ends of the original book.

Another Novel that came out in the late 80s and was of the same vein was called Red Army, by Ralph Peters, a former US Army intel type. His novel was one heck of a read focusing exclusively on the Soviet side.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: Minneapolis MN
Posted by BigSmitty on Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:11 PM

There needs to be some hard and fast rules about what was and what wasn't in the book...

USS Enterprise and VF-1:

Any carrier aircraft are not based ON that carrier, rather Naval Air Stations on each coast (and NAF Atsugi in Japan).  The planes and squadrons stay even if the carrier shifts homeports.  Enterprise was still at NS Alameda in 1988 so she wouldn't fit.  VF-1 was based at NAS Miramar in San Diego and always has been, until disestablishment.

USS Midway

Midway was the US Navy's only forward based carrier at Naval Station Yokosuka in Japan, from the early 1970s until she was replaced in June 1992 by the USS Independence.  I know this because I was on USS Bunker Hill (also stationed at NS Yoko) when we escorted Midway to Pearl Harbor to do the crew swap.

USS Bunker Hill

Bunker Hill is another story.  She was never stationed on the East Coast (although she was built at Bath Iron Work in Maine and commissioned in 1986, right about the time the book came out).  Since she was the first ship in the Navy to utilize the Mk 41 VLS (Vertical Launch System), Clancy probably included her in the book.  From her commissioning until late 1998, she was forward deployed to NS Yoko as well.

Units that need to be added to the "Master List"

M2 Bradley (Tamiya 35132 is the initial variant best suited to RSR as HvH alluded to)

USS Reuben James FFG 57 (CO of Pharris transferred to RJ after Pharris took one on the bow) She would probably not have had the extended stern for handling the SH-60s (RAST gear, etc) in the mid 1980s as it was just being retrofitted on the earlier hulls, even though the "prototype" SH-60F was being carried by RJ in the book.

I have RSR on my iPad since I couldn't read much of my dog-eared 1st ed of the book.  However, sure makes it easy to search for specific terms and getting our list squared away.

Matt - IPMS #46275

"Build what ya love and love what ya build..."

Build Logs, Rants and Humor

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 15, 2011 1:29 PM

USS Midway is mentioned tangentily in the story. It is said she is the only carrier battle group out in the Nothern Pacific at the time and "would probably not have the moxie" to go after Kanchatka/Vladivostok alone. As for many of the other ships mentioned that are Pacific fleet units (USS Tarawa and USS New Jersey among them, which I used to see often at the old Long Beach Naval Base here), the book mentions a large transfer of Pacific Fleet ships to the Atlantic. As far as Rueben James goes, were the OHP Frigates built and commisioned in the order of their hull numbers? If so, she was one of the last of the class to be commsioned, wiki showing 1986, and only four more after her in the US. Wouldn't she have been built with the extended stern? USS Enterprise I mentioned earlier as conceivably she could have been transferred with VF-1 aboard to the Atlantic- not listed in the book, but just in response to a question.

Let me check the list again, I am fairly certain I put the M2 down along with the M3.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, January 15, 2011 2:47 PM

As for women in line units...yeah. Too many people, even military professionals, don't realize that these restrictions aren't about what's between the soldier's legs, it's about what muscles are in the soldier's upper body. To quote R. Lee Ermey, "I want the Marine next to me to be able to pick me up and haul ass if I get wounded."

No kiddin'... I got a daughter in the Army  (Blackhawk pilot now,  and she's getting ready to switch to Apaches next fall), she's all of 5'4" and 120-25 pounds...  No way she's ever gonna haul a 6'1", 210 lb guy out of a hole that's five feet deep he & she both are wearing 40 lbs of body armor and battle-rattle...   Not without her Blackhawk, anyway, lol.. Those gals who BM&W about wanting Combat Arms opportunities really pizz her off too...  The Israelis tried it, and they failed...  Miserably...

Was a funny exchange about it, regarding males and females in combat arms, in Harold Coyle's book,  Trial by Fire, which introduced us to the Infantry's first female Platoon Leader, 2LT Nancy Kozak...  Seems that in the book, we were invading Mexico (for reasons not necessary to telling  this little tid-bit) and the invasion Force was driving their AFVs there from Ft Hood (Shades of OIF-1), when Kozak was rather suddenly and crudely reminded that females are on a certain... biological cycle, and was also reminded that when she had hurriedly packed her gear, she'd forgotten about packing something for that rather personal need females are subject to on a monthy basis...   The story starts here:

Kozak thought that Supply Sergeants in line-units, especially those in Infantry Companies, weren't likely to anticipate the need for such an item and wouldn't have packed any "Feminine Hygene" products in the sundry packs that he'd loaded on his truck two days ago for his soldiers'  personal needs (which is exactly what Staff Sergeant Marty Flynn considered them all to be, "his" Soldiers).  She figured that the stuff he'd pack in them was more likely limited to things like writing paper, envelopes, pencils and pens, a dozen pairs of cheap sunglasses, boxes of travel-sized sunscreen, lip balm, bug dope, toilet paper, band-aids, soap, disposable razors and shaving cream, depilatory (for black troops who couldn't use razors due to shaving profiles), foot powder, and a couple dozen other little but handy items,  etc.. But no, not a chance of something that specific to females. And she sure didn't want to have him dig up a box just for her from the bed of a combat-loaded truck on the side of the road, in front of the male dismounts in the Bradley's troop compartment.  She was having enough trouble fitting in without having THAT take place.

       If Kozak had put aside her embarassment about it, engaged her brain-housing group, and simply asked Sergeant Flynn if he could help her out, she'd have discovered that he did indeed pack sanitary napkins, but not because he was actually that prepared, but rather because he knew that those items were excellent at absorbing blood, and as one of the only two NCOs in the company that was a combat veteran (First Sergeant Felton C. Griffin being the other), he expected blood, and a lot of it, in the next few days and wanted to make sure that "Doc" Dykstra, the platoon's medic, had more than just the dozen or so field dressings for his aid-bag.   

      Kozak called out on the Bradley's ICS to Specialist Mark Talbert, the Bradley's driver, to break convoy and pull into the little Circle- K she'd spotted from the up in the TC hatch.  "Driver, right turn,  head up the ramp."  Talbert gunned the M2 and drove up the ramp of  Interstate 35's frontage road, where they pulled into the parking lot, noting the surpirsed exspressions on the faces of the people who were there getting gas, grabbing some beer, milk and bread, or whatever they needed to pick up on their way home from work, not knowing yet that the soldiers were on their way to war.

"Have the dismounts stay in the track, Sergeant Wilkes.", Kozak dropped down inside the Bradley and then lowered her voice a bit and talked directly into the Sergeant's ear,  "I'll be back in a minute. I gotta get something kinda personal."   She noted Wilkes initial puzzled expression, and then said in an even quiter voice, "My 'Aunt Flo' just showed up, unannounced."  Staff Sergeant Marty Wilkes, a native Texan, and the only married man in the squad,  immediatley recognized the "code" from Kozak. He quickly nodded his understanding and answered, "Yes Ma'am, but make it quick or we'll have a helluva time getting back where we're supposed to be." Kozak doffed her CVC helmet and grabbed her cap, then dismounted the Bradley.

In the back of the Bradley, the dismounts were talking (now that their "Lady El-Tee" was out of earshot), as grunts do, about her and why she suddenly had to break convoy, stop, and run inside a C-Store they'd come across. 

 Private First Class Nick Mannelli was an 18 year-old, smart-azzed Italian kid from New York, New York, "The city so nice they named it twice", he always said to anyone that asked him where he was from, as if his accent didn't tell you right away.  Mannelli was a good soldier,  but hadn't yet developed the tact that was now being required of all the males in the company (and the entire battalion for that matter) since the arrival of the first female Infantry Officer in the entire U.S. Army some six weeks ago.   He also didn't care who heard him either, so he'd spent a lot time with a floor buffer in the Orderly Room, and the Old Man's and First Sergeant's offices.

    Wilkes remarked, " Manelli, you dope... I'll make it simple for y'all to understand. The El-Tee is on the rag  and needs some Kotex."  Manelli answered, "Ah.. So that's what that smell was."  Some laughter broke out and his buddy, Specialist Bobby Smith, a big, bear-like,  likeable kid and the squad's SAW gunner from some little farm-town in Nebraska and whom everyone, even the First Sergeant, called 'Smitty',  said to Manelli, "What, Brooklyn? You ain't never smelled a b*tch in heat before?"  Even more laughter broke out, at Mannelli's expense, since he (alone) considered himself a "real player" and a ladies man.  "Yeah, sure. Lots of times, Manelli retorted. "But never in a Bradley..."

I know the set-up was alittle long, but that's the way Coyle wrote, and it was rather funny...

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, January 15, 2011 2:57 PM

beav

Hans, I'm so glad that I committed that faux pas which made you bang your head against a 'wall'.  I'm relatively unfamiliar with modern US Armor and the kits of said equipment...so perhaps I should have left best out of my sentence.  

Anyways, I did not intend to start up that conversation here, so, my sincere apologies. Wink  And Hans, I have thick skin, and I usually always say, or do something stupid and regrettable at work everyday...you could say I'm used to it.

Don't sweat it, Beav... I wasn't offended at all, so no apologies needed... Just givin' ya a little static, hence the other smilies too...  Didn't want to razz ya too hard and give you the wrong impression of ME...  I'm just normally a bit curmudgeonly, and am often refered to as,  "Your Azz-holiness"... But I still like to joke around here...

  I was serious about it being the most often-asked question but only jokingly said it should have its own forum though..  Well.. Sorta jokingly..., well.. Maybe... Nah... I meant that part...Wink

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Saturday, January 15, 2011 3:38 PM

Hans von Hammer

 

 

Don't sweat it, Beav... I wasn't offended at all, so no apologies needed... Just givin' ya a little static, hence the other smilies too...  Didn't want to razz ya too hard and give you the wrong impression of ME...  I'm just normally a bit curmudgeonly, and am often refered to as,  "Your Azz-holiness"... But I still like to joke around here...

  I was serious about it being the most often-asked question but only jokingly said it should have its own forum though..  Well.. Sorta jokingly..., well.. Maybe... Nah... I meant that part...Wink

Heh heh heh, its all part of my grand plan Hans...what that is...I don't really know.  I'm thinking I should pick up some of those books mentioned earlier in the thread, it'd give me some good reading about the 'good old days' (remember I work in air and missile defense) when I would have been able to push the 'Auto' button on my control console and obliterate every hostile track in the sky...I think the way it works now is I need a two-star general standing over my shoulder before we tell the computer to engage whenever it feels like it...(which I guess is good...)

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Charleston, SC
Posted by sanderson_91 on Saturday, January 15, 2011 7:56 PM

I'd like to join this Group Build - Red Storm Rising is one of my favorite books.  I've just picked up the Hasegawa F-14A Atlantic Fleet Squadrons from Sprue Brothers which should fit the requirements of this build.  Thanks!

Steve

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Saturday, January 15, 2011 8:07 PM

Hey Hans, good luck to your daughter.  My oldest boy just returned from Afghanistan with the 7th Marines.

As for your point, Iraq and Afghanistan have shown us that no women in Combat Arms doesn't mean no women in combat.  The fluid nature of modern irregular warfare means than anyone in theater may be immersed in heavy combat albeit for a short time.  From all accounts I've heard, the women have acquitted themselves well.

This is in now way an endorsement of women in the Combat Arms for the very reasons you state.  But the distinction is becoming less relevant in the GWOT.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 15, 2011 10:53 PM

This link will be most helpful. It lists every carrier deployment along with their embarked air group during the time period covered by RSR ( and many other years)

http://www.history.navy.mil/download/dictnry/Appendx3.pdf

Then one just needs to look up that particular air wing to see what squadrons were part of the wing during the time period.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, January 15, 2011 11:32 PM

And I found this site which lists Carrier Air Wing compositions and deployments.

http://gonavy.jp/CVWf.html

One other point I have come across. USS Independence, one of the US Carriers named as a paricipant in RSR, was in SLEP, an extended overhaul, from Feb 85 until June 88.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:26 AM

satch_ip

Hey Hans, good luck to your daughter.  My oldest boy just returned from Afghanistan with the 7th Marines.

As for your point, Iraq and Afghanistan have shown us that no women in Combat Arms doesn't mean no women in combat.  The fluid nature of modern irregular warfare means than anyone in theater may be immersed in heavy combat albeit for a short time.  From all accounts I've heard, the women have acquitted themselves well.

This is in now way an endorsement of women in the Combat Arms for the very reasons you state.  But the distinction is becoming less relevant in the GWOT.

Glad to hear that your Marine made it home safe.. I know the feeling, I had both kids deployed at the same time a couple years ago...

Thanks for the well-wishes...  I'd flown with her before I retired from the Green Machine (on flight drills as an observer), and although I might be biased, I think she's a helluva good stick, for sling-winger...  I frankly don't want her in Guns, but I understand her desire...

 Let me be clear about it though, I don't worry about her safety in Slicks vs Guns, just that I know she'll get a lot more flight-time in 'Hawks (Even more in Sh*thooks) than Apaches... And at this point in her career, flight-time is more important... However, the Guns offer her a much quicker and easier way to get a commision than she will as a Warrant, so it's a trade-off, I guess..  She now wants a company command someday, and she won't get one as a warrant officer, knowwhutImean? 

While I know that there's no clear line between women in combat anymore, that's not the real issue.. It's females in Combat Arms that I've always been against, and for not only the reason that Ermy says (and that's a GOOD one), but as with anything that the Army does (or worse, what civilians want it to do), I ask two questions: "Does it increase our Lethality?" and, "Does it increase our Survivability?"... If the answer is, "No" to either question, then leave it be, dammit... And no senator or representative, looking to increase his/her chances of getting the female voters, ever honestly deals with those questions... 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:44 AM

Now, back to the GB... Stik's list didn't include that T-62A (although I have no idea why Clancy didn't mention them, yet put T-55s in there)... The Poles and East German units would have been equipped with '62s, I'm sure...  Even the "Russian-proper" B-formations (reservists) should have been equipped with them...

I'm doing an M109A3 155mm SP Howitzer for the "Have Gn, Will Travel" GB...  Think I'll just do a "Crossover"...  Pretty sure that they had Alpha-3s in Germany at that time, as I was a Section Chief on one Stateside (2 AD) during the book's time-frame...

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Sunday, January 16, 2011 10:51 AM

Hans, heres a theory, by the time the T-55s and the Poles showed up, weren't they fighting Reserve 'C' units?

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:12 PM

Hans von Hammer

Now, back to the GB... Stik's list didn't include that T-62A (although I have no idea why Clancy didn't mention them, yet put T-55s in there)... The Poles and East German units would have been equipped with '62s, I'm sure...  Even the "Russian-proper" B-formations (reservists) should have been equipped with them...

The list is  full of holes for ground equipment. Now trying to lock down an exact time for the book makes it worse with old equipment being retired and other new stuff coming on line. On the US side it mentions a National Guard Armored Division (only one I know of was the 49th out of Texas) which would likely be equipped with M-60A1s or M48A5s, along with M113s, M109A1/A2, M110A1, etc. At the time of the novel, my Regular Army unti, the 5th ID was part of III Corps, the Stateside Corps slated for REFORGER to reinforce NATO in just such a scenario. We were a Division 86 unit with mostly older equipment: M-60A1/M113A2/M901A1/M-109A3/M-163A1, along with some newer stuff such as the MLRS. Other stuff in widespread use but not named, M-60A3 MBT, M-106 SP Mortar, M-577 Command Post Track, Gamma Goat, M-151A2 1/4 ton truck (AKA Jeep, not MUTT), CUCV, M35A2 2 1/2 Ton Truck, Gore, M-578, M88A1, M-728 CEV...

and on the Soviet/WARPACT side there are just as many omissions: T-64 MBT, T-62 MBT, BRDM series, SA-13, ZSU-23-4, 2S1, 2S3, BM-21 MLRS, BMP-2... plus a whole lot more....

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:11 PM

I don't think Clancy was writing a full-on scenario, hence the omissions.  What we could do is set a likely date range for the build, ie 1985-1987 or something from which people could choose their model.  

Another note, when did the NATO three-tone scheme take over from that other one (that I cannot remember the name of)

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy, TX
Posted by Aggieman on Sunday, January 16, 2011 3:15 PM

This is a great group build idea!  I cannot resist it.  So put me down for an Eduard Su-17 and a Monogram EA-6B Prowler, both 1/48.  It's been years since I read the book, but I'd have thought there would be an E2 Hawkeye in the book, but I didn't see it on the list referenced. 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Sunday, January 16, 2011 4:10 PM

While I've signed up for a number of group builds already, the 1q7 months would give me some time to pull something from my "already started/priority" stash that's under 50% complete, but there's a catch.

Would the Italeri/Testors F-19 kit work for the planes referred to as the "Frisbees from Dreamland" or some such in the book?  It's the closest I can think of to matching the description Clancy gave in the days before the Nighthawk was declassified.

If not, I may officially sign up later with something more conventional.

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Sunday, January 16, 2011 4:52 PM

@ Aggieman, I KNOW hawkeyes have to be in the book; carrier battle groups cannot function without them.  I bet they weren't mentioned by nomenclature which is how the list was compiled.

@ Kugai, the F-19 would be the correct kit to build; Italeri/Testors were grasping at straws and I think its one of those goldmine kits that have been made...that is until what F-117s really looked like was revealed.

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:04 PM

Aggieman

This is a great group build idea!  I cannot resist it.  So put me down for an Eduard Su-17 and a Monogram EA-6B Prowler, both 1/48.  It's been years since I read the book, but I'd have thought there would be an E2 Hawkeye in the book, but I didn't see it on the list referenced. 

Hawkeye is on the list under E2C. Blink and you'll miss it.Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy, TX
Posted by Aggieman on Sunday, January 16, 2011 6:57 PM

Hawkeye is on the list under E2C. Blink and you'll miss it.Wink

Apparently I blinked a bunch because I literrally never saw it.  Went back and checked again and there it is crystal clear.

Depending on how the builds go, I may add the Kinetic E2-C Hawkeye kit I recently got as well to this GB.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:24 PM

On the US side it mentions a National Guard Armored Division (only one I know of was the 49th out of Texas) which would likely be equipped with M-60A1s or M48A5s, along with M113s, M109A1/A2, M110A1, etc. At the time of the novel, my Regular Army unti, the 5th ID was part of III Corps, the Stateside Corps slated for REFORGER to reinforce NATO in just such a scenario. We were a Division 86 unit with mostly older equipment: M-60A1/M113A2/M901A1/M-109A3/M-163A1, along with some newer stuff such as the MLRS.

Well, that helps a lot.. Dayum.. I'd forgotten all about the 49th being mentioned by name, lol.  The 49th AD  was the only National Guard Armored Division that had all of it's units in one state.  It was HQ'd at Camp Mabry, Austin, TX, but their MATES (Mobilization And Equipment Training Site) was at North Ft. Hood and I was in a artillery battery in the TXARNG (C Btry- 4/133 FA in Seguine, TX) from '84-'88, when I went back to the RA (The 80s Oil Boom was over *sigh*)... We were capstoned to III Corps too...

Indeed, we had the M-60A3, M113-series, M109A2/A3s, M548s, M110s (one GS Battalion), ADA was Chaparalls &  M163 SP Vulcans, ENgineers had SEEs, CEVs, and trucks,  ARVs of both the M88 and M578 variety, Gamma Goats, CUCVs (including some M880s), GOERs, HEMTTs,  M151A2s, M-35A2s, 5-tons,  everything an RA armored division would have in the mid-eighties, in other words (The exception was that there were no FAASVs in the 49th, all FA battalions had M548s. )...  There were also  two Air Cav Troops in the 1/124th CAV (E & F Troops) with OH-58Ds , UH-1(H?), (E Troop), and AH-1(S?) Cobras (F Troop)...

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by Medicman71 on Sunday, January 16, 2011 10:43 PM

Well it looks like my VF-1 Wolfpack F-14A won't work. Hmmmmm. I guess i'll have to see what I have in the stash. I have a S-3 Viking but i'm planning to do that in the Centennial of Naval Aviation markings so i'm not sure. I do want to join the GB, just gotta figure out what to do.

Building- (All 1/48) F-14A Tomcat, F-16C Blk 30, He 129

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, January 17, 2011 12:10 PM

Check out those links I posted on P.3 for listings of VF squadrons that are possible for use here.

I started properly RE reading Red Storm Rising yesterday. I found two other Sovier Sub classes (Charlie and November) and a Minesweeper (Natya class) named that I had missed on the skim thru. They are added to the equipment list of page 2. another thing I read was it mentioned USS Chicago being commisioned only a few months before the story begins in January. A quick check on USS Chicago shows that she was commisioned on 27 Sept, 1986, so theoreticaly, RSR takes place in 1987.

Sorry if I am jumping your handle here CD, but that time, subject, and book is sort of a passion for me.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by Medicman71 on Monday, January 17, 2011 12:20 PM

I checked Stikpusher and they're not there. Thanks anyway. I do have a Su-25 in the stash I could do. Will that work? I believe I saw it there on the Order of Battle.

Building- (All 1/48) F-14A Tomcat, F-16C Blk 30, He 129

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, January 17, 2011 3:32 PM

beav

Another note, when did the NATO three-tone scheme take over from that other one (that I cannot remember the name of)

The NATO camo three color scheme started appearing around summer' 86 or so IIRC... Before that the Army and Marines both used the four color MERDC schemes that were "adjustable" to the area and time of year. IE: Spring/Summer Verdant, or Gray Desert. Also there was at least one, and possibly more experimental camo schemes is use. As well as lots of stuff in overall Forest Green 34079. I know in 1987, in my Mech Inf Battallion MERDC Camo, NATO TriColor Camo, Experimental Four Color Camo, and Forest Green were all there.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Ft. Sill, OK
Posted by beav on Monday, January 17, 2011 5:10 PM

Wow that really opens up the playing field for paint options.

"First to Fire!"

Steven

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 3:22 PM

I found and added another ship to the list that I had previously missed. USS Talbot, a Brooke Class FFG. In case anybody has the old Monogram kit in their stash...Whistling 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Freeport, IL USA
Posted by cdclukey on Tuesday, January 18, 2011 9:59 PM

OK, given the trouble we're having deciding what's in and what's out, I'm going to modify the rules.

As Stikpusher pointed out, it would appear the book takes place in 1987. So, let's do this: If the subject you want to build would have been in service in the proper location in 1987, it's in. If it's mentioned in the book, it's in. If you really have to, you can go back to 1985, which is about the time Clancy would have had to start writing it.

So, in the book (even if the book conflicts with reality) or in service in Europe or in the Atlantic. USN Pacific fleet stuff can be included (they come through the Panama Canal midway through the book) if the ships they're associated with are home ported in San Diego or Pearl.

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