The group build to end all group builds - THE GREAT WAR

Heaven's, that's a great work bench. A friend of mine is into watches and has a similiar bench, and one of those scopes too.  Good job refurbishing that thing. Can't wait to see more pics of the Hannover.

OK, 

NOW I am getting started on the Hannover Cl.IIIa  

Also a couple of weeks ago I made a trip to Tulsa and went with my dad and brother to the JM Davis gun museum in Claremore OK.  One of the biggest collections of guns in the world there are over 13,000 guns there as well as a few other interesting items.  I snapped a few photos of some items that might be of interest to you guys for the Great War build.

As you can see, there is a lot of interesting stuff.  There was a whole long isle of WW1 equipment alone.

Enjoy!

I "HAD" intended to start on my Hannover build right after joining the build, but what is it they say about best laid plans?  It turned out a fellow watchmaker friend of mine decided to move to Florida and was going to get rid of an old watchmaker bench that he had in his garage.  As I didn't have one at home I jumped at it.

Yes it was old and had seen quite a bit of use.  HARD use.    The frame and drawers were still in usable condition though.  As I had been planning on making a tabletop unit to use as a bench it changed to become the new bench top.  So I decided to upgrade the bench, refinish it, and thus have a new workbench to start on the Hannover build.

The old bench top "UGH" setting inside and on top of the new top.  Nasty and cratered like the moon.

The new bench top with pylon and added armrests.  MUCH MORE BETTER!  

The finished (for now) workbench!  A watchmaker's bench sets up high (about chest height) to make it easier to deal with small parts and not mess over your back or neck.  ( like all those little PE parts )

wing_nut

Hey kids... what's the buzz in here.  Quiet.  As soon as I wrap up the little bulldozer I am doing for my club GB iwll be starting on the WNW Roland.

I'm still here, just lurking and working on some steelskins. 

Here are some progress shots for my "Harry Tate"

I would like to also include a build of Roden's 1/32 Sopwith Triplane as Major Raymond Collishaw's Black Marie. The decals that come with the kit is for the twin vickers Black Maria that was Collishaw's second ride by the same name.. He flew this bird from July 23 and 27, 1917 and had two victories with it.

Mike T.

Hey kids... what's the buzz in here.  Quiet.  As soon as I wrap up the little bulldozer I am doing for my club GB iwll be starting on the WNW Roland.

This is a good discussion. I totally agree that if Emden was mascarading as a British light cruiser, she would have been painted either grey (SMS) or black.

I think the picture of the wreck suggests a white hull, but it also looks painted, which was typical.

ouch!! 350 bucks... yea I've kept my resin purchases limited to 1/700 scale and non-captial ships at that.    If you have the room 1/350 is great,  but prices sky rocket too.  I've seen the Enterprise Cv-6 (1:350) Resin kit priced at $517.51  ($750 retail)... but still $350 is nothing to sneeze at either.

If I had to make a definite choice as to the colour scheme the East Asia Squadron carried during the fateful battles of 1914, I would shoot for the grey.  In  the Emden's case,  the captain was well aware that war was imminent when he left Tsingtao on 31 July 1914.   The assassination in Sarajevo of the Austrian Archduke occured 28 June 1914, so that gives about a month's time to receive the news, make port (if not there already) and repaint the ship in wartime measure?  Also came across a few entries describing how the Emden had tricked ships into thinking it was the  HMS Yarmouth by installing a dummy fourth smokestack on the ship’s superstructure.  Would this  be possible if it still had peacetime colours of buff - guess that depends if British ships were also painted similar in some way. 

 Really couldn't make a definite decision based on photos.   On some pre-war photos the buff colour stood out from the white, while in others the whole ship seemed almost uniform light grey.  Yea looking at photos of the Emden really makes one run in circles.    The posted photo below of the sinking Emden, certainly looks like a white hull and darker upper surfaces - opposite of what Colour Scheme No. 9 was intended to be.  Perhaps it is smoke/fire that darkened the uppers,  maybe partial overexposed film - anyone's guess.

Only write up I could find on paint schemes was by Tom Tanner

regards,
Jack

jgeratic1

Eric,

It's too bad about your aversion to simulated plastic (resin) kits.   Every ship and scale you mentioned in your  last post is available, if not, the specific class is.  I have to agree about your comment on the Enterprise though.   That is a conundrum as to why no American company has  bothered to make a plastic injection kit of this  important and very popular CV, with only the Tamiya one put forth.

regards,
Jack

My thinking on my lowly little $ 27.00 Emden is to a) see if the PE set might be usable for the big cruiser, and b) get my feet wet (ouch!) in Imperial Navy subjects.

I just finished Massie today. 10 days vacation and I read a couple of hours every night. Wingnut, I purchased futures in microbreweries.

Yes, for the British, Jutland was like five Arizonas in one day. I'm also questioning my decision to model Emden in wartime gray, since she met her demise in Fall 1914 out of Tsingtao and I don't know if there was time to paint her. But I've seen others do it, this is a WW1 GB, so there you have it.

Scharnhorst I would love to paint in white and buff. On the other hand, I doubt she was that way at the Falklands or Coronel. Any opinions?

Hellos kids... I'm Back.  From vacation that is.  Some times down at the Jersey shore to recharge the batteries.  And to increase the stock values of a couple of distilleries too.

Eric,

It's too bad about your aversion to simulated plastic (resin) kits.   Every ship and scale you mentioned in your  last post is available, if not, the specific class is.  I have to agree about your comment on the Enterprise though.   That is a conundrum as to why no American company has  bothered to make a plastic injection kit of this  important and very popular CV, with only the Tamiya one put forth.

regards,
Jack

EBergerud

Doog: if the world of the four stacker appears odd, track down one of the WWII submarine memoirs that recounts duty on an S-Class submarine (nicknamed Pig Boats without affection.) Six of ten were lost in the Pacific before being withdrawn from service in late 42. Pig Boats did, however, use old torpedoes that worked - a problem that the USN was slow to deal with in the Gato class subs and all of their destroyers. This allowed S-44 to sink the IJN heavy cruiser Kako - Japan's only loss at the Savo Island debacle.

Oh man...you should really check out the Destroyermen series (first book is "Into the Storm" I believe, by Taylor Anderson). It's definitely escapist fun, but it nails a lot of the details that similar books usually flub. And pig boats do play a very prominent role at a certain point in the saga (as does a wrecked PBY).

Massie's Castles of Steel is very good. It's really the third book in a trilogy that includes "Nicholas and Alexandra" and "Dreadnaught." Massie is a writer, not an academic, but does good history regardless that people can read with pleasure: think Barbara Tuchman. Doog: if the world of the four stacker appears odd, track down one of the WWII submarine memoirs that recounts duty on an S-Class submarine built either during or immediately after WWI (nicknamed Pig Boats without affection.) Six of ten were lost in the Pacific before being withdrawn from service in late 42. Pig Boats did, however, use old torpedoes that worked - a problem that the USN was slow to deal with in the Gato class subs and all of their destroyers. This allowed S-44 to sink the IJN heavy cruiser Kako - Japan's only loss at the Savo Island debacle.

In the world of plastic ship modeling there seems to be a few things required to make the grade: 1) the ship should be big; 2) the ship should get sunk. Historical importance of the individual vessel doesn't seem to make much difference. There are, for instance, no versions of Enterprise (CV-6) available although it was easily the single most successful warship in history. (I got an old Tamiya 1/700 and consider myself lucky.)  All ships in harms way deserve respect. But I wish a special edge was given to vessels that were in the middle of those vicious surface brawls of 1942-43 when the USN and the IJN were still more or less on even terms and ships in very short supply. The (unmodeled) USS Helena was in every great battle in the South Pacific until destroyed at Kula Gulf - so getting sunk is no guarantee. The DDs are a little better off, but real warhorses like Sterett, O'Bannon, Maury and Charles Ausburne take some looking. At least Fletcher is there and could stand in I think for O'Bannon and Ausburne.  Anyway, you end up with lots of Hoods, Bismarcks and Arizonas. At least there's a KGV, but only 700 scale Rodney. And Washington, which won arguably the only 1v1 BB action of WWII is likewise only out there in 700 while you have your good choice of Iowa class anti-aircraft battleships. (The Japanese will model anything - including Mutsu whose only claim to fame was that it blew up while at anchor - a bit like the Maine.)

But having no WWI dreadnaughts available is a blinking scandal. These ships made history and were involved in the largest surface engagement in world history. (The British lost more men at Jutland in one day than the USN lost during the entire Guadalcanal campaign.)  And they have such an elegant look to them, especially the Battlecruisers. The Russo-Japanese War is very well represented thanks to Zvezda and Hasegawa's delightful Mikasa. I read on Modelship that Airfix did badly with Iron Duke and this didn't encourage anyone to to pursue the matter outside the world of resin. Below is a no doubt quickie construction of the incoming Zevezda Dreadnaught (considered out of date by 1914 and hence not a member of Grand Fleet):

Eric

When you guys mentioned the Lion, Invincible and Dreadnaught, are these kits you want to build or wish they were made in plastic styrene?  They are available in resin form.  More pricey, but have better detail and photo-etch frets are included.

I love these ships you guys are buidling. I always found the ships from late 1800's to around 1915 very interesting.

Avalon Hill!  Wow, that bought back memories. Many happy hours spent moving those little cardboard pieces around hexagons.

EBergerud

 - although I'd leave off the coal dust or Jackie Fischer would turn in his grave.

Invincible Class would be a great addition.

TD4438

HMS Dreadnought would be nice to see.

 

TD4438

 

DoogsATX:

 

TD - Very nice! I tore through all the books of the Destroyermen series recently (WWII sailors on a WWI-era four-stacker destroyer get transported to an alternate earth where dinosaurs never went extinct and intelligent life evolved far differently...), and it's definitely piqued my interest in WWI floaty things. May have to branch into ships at some point...

I, too, thought the portholes were drilled out. Excellent job on those!

 

I am an avid reader and will be on the lookout for these.

 

Followed by joining an Avalon Hill game club that plays "Jutland". I did for a year and it taught me a lot.

HMS Dreadnought would be nice to see.

BTW EBergerud,if not for your Duke,I wouldn't have built mine.Now I'm hooked good!

I had to raid the stash to get the Duke some back up.

Doog: always true to the craft. I would have noted that "most but not all" of the Nieuports were rigged with taped double wires and rigged mine as one of the "not all" in the Pup fashion.

Bondoman: Probably did the RN good. Both navies were building up their complement for wartime operations and that meant a lot of new sailors and hence the need for serious training. Actually the two fleets did keep pretty active  (Germans usually in Baltic of course) - you don't want lots of sailors sitting around port, especially if you want the ships to perform at the level they were supposed to. (The Germans found out the hard way that idle sailors are bad sailors in October 1918 - the German economy was in serious trouble by 1918 and the KM was put on stiff rations of everything and had less time at sea.)  No simulators around to train the gunners in those days. So weathering a Dreadnaught is a fine idea - although I'd leave off the coal dust or Jackie Fischer would turn in his grave.

Dreadnaught Indound: Dragon USA is taking orders on a Zvezda 350 scale HMS Dreadnaught: delivery August 2011. We can hope. Wish it was a Battle Cruiser or a Duke to match up with their Konig, but I'll take what they give us.

Eric

EBergerud

History trivia: The Kaiser had a big mouth and there wasn't a soul in the German government that thought Germany would dominate China for 1,000 years. The huns were real enough though. They were a probably a group of warrior nomadic tribes unified by a string of charismatic leaders the most famous of which was Attila. They terrorized Europe and the western steppe for about a century: about 450 AD give or take their empire was huge. After Attila died they simply disapered: no doubt terrorized each other. We're not even sure what language they spoke: early Turkic is a good guess. Their reputation of pointless cruelty made them a fodder for legend among Germans, although the Huns killed more Germans than other peoples probably. Hence the idiotic remark by the Kaiser which made good fodder for British propaganda during WWI. Very odd guy, the Kaiser, wanting to identify his soldiers with probably the most nihilistic group of barbarians in history. Brit soldiers called the Huns "Jerry" or "Fritz" and only rarely "the Hun" - reason not clear. Maybe they weren't good at Turkic.    

Eric

Between August and the end of December 1914 the Home Fleet traveled over 15,000 nm evading German mines and submarines. I would say that the Iron Duke would have been weathered and covered in coal dust by the end of that period.

EBergerud

It's double rigging wires. What you see in the 94th squadron pic is a 

fairing taped between the wires to prevent them to vibrate too much 

during flight, which streamlines them and preserves the correct 

rigging of the wings. 

 

Eric! You, good sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!

The fairing actually makes a ton of sense. I can imagine the wind kicking through double wires must have been extremely annoying.

I've got an idea of how to rig this in a way that might just preserve my sanity. Shape the fairing out of metal. Two pieces of micro tubing with some brass strip between them. Glue together. Fill with putty, sand into aerodynamic goodness. Insert rigging line into ends of the tubes (which would extend past the strip by a few mm in each direction), and connect said rigging via turnbuckles to mounting point on the fuselage.

I think that just might work...

Superb Marc, simply superb.

Nate

One more thing. The USAF is a replica found at Wright Patterson. Below is description from http://www.wwi-models.org/ which has a photo archive.

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This is a mid-1990s reproduction of very high quality. Note copper (?!) turnbuckles and copious use of black/white/gold Nieuport logo. Flying wires are doubled, and these taped together. The wooden struts have black enamel end caps that are fitted into natural steel-colored flanges and are reinforced with tan tapes lighter than the wood. The air induction tube is aluminum. Venture ASI is black enamel, with visible copper tubes therein. There is a brass cap on the propeller thrust plate, as well as on the wheel hubs. The cabane struts have a black base. Note cowl ring rivets. Also note leather patches reinforcing critical wing fabric points.

Lance Krieg

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Eric

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Regarding the JADARHOBBY webpage, near the top right you will see a small Polish and British flag, click the unionjack and it will switch the language to english.  Just a bit below that there is a heading  Waluty - here you can click to change the currency.

regards,

Jack

jgeratic1

Well good news for those interested in the Nieuport 28 PE set from

JADARHOBBY  has it for $23.39 USD and they do accept paypal.  I have ordered from them many times, so yes they are legit.  It is a bit better price than the $31.00 Rollmodels is asking for.

regards,

Jack

1 - Curse you

2 - I don't know Polish and Google doesn't translate buttons. Is there an English version available anywhere? Hard to buy it if I can't figure out how to add it to the cart...

great sit Waikong.  There is one that looks very much like the pic I found.  This would make a very cool series of mini dios.

I love those acoustic warning systems ... very 'steam punk'... here's some more . Check out this link if you want even more examples, I didnt' know they had them up to the 1960's http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/ear/ear.htm