The group build to end all group builds - THE GREAT WAR

Again Sean thanks so much.  I spotted every one of the seams in a heart beat.  But then, i am one of those guys that spots the things in films when there is a cut and something is different.   BTW I like the "translucent" look you did.

Great tip Mike.  I like that idea.  I am going test with a post-it on one side to see if it give some feeling of the light direction.  We'll see.

Hi Ruddratt;

thanks - praise is always welcome.....  The DVII is an Eduards kit [a little over priced] I knew I had to do that as soon as I saw it - WnW is supposed to be releasing a DVII as well, I'm hoping for this scheme in 1/32 - or else it's gonna be a 'make my own decals' job.   It was a limited edition, but not that long ago - I'm sure you can still find one or two floating around - http://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=3975

on your comments about the rib shading - there's a couple different ways I've seen that done... depending on the effect, post or pre shade - the idea is the same: take a look at one of the Phalz :

I guess grime and such would build up between the ribs more than actually on them, so on some photos, you see that sort of effect [the ribs were masked off then pastel dust applied]

The other [which I have not done an example of] are shots where you can see the interior structure of the wing due to the sun light...  in that case the ribs are much darker [mask them off and apply a lighter color] I wuppose it all depends on the effect you want [I'm not a big fan of what I did above]

Beauty start on your Phalz though, I was really torn between the two and still may get me another to do the one you have there! The Roland was one of the nicer kits btw - I really enjoyed that build.  - My build of that is here: http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/models/50805-roland-dvia-kissenberth.html - check out the MasterBarrel Spandaus ....  a very nice edition to any kit...

-sean

Sean, those are some stunning builds! Love the Roland - been seriously thinking about grabbing one of those bad boys myself. That D.VII is superb! Which kit is that, and where'd you find those markings? They're awesome!

Marc, Sean has given you excellent advice, and his work definitely backs it up. Not much to add to it, but I did try something a little different when it came to applying the rib tapes to my WnW Pfalz on Doogs Weathering GB. Before I applied the tapes, I lightly post-shaded over each rib using a well-thinned mix of mostly Tamiya smoke with a little flat black added, and then put the tapes on. I was very happy with the effect and it gave the wing surface some extra depth.....

oh wait - here's a correct example here:

the easiest one to pick out is the center section directly above the cockpit.

Hi Wing_nut;

no problem, glad to help.

- yes, the exact width is somewhere around four feet and change, I would imagine different producers shipped slightly different widths [as are the exact colors from different suppliers hotly contested] **watch the edges of the decals closely, some people have seen black borders on the outer edge - that should be trimmed off, it's leftover from the decal printing process, trapping is not quite right]

- yup -, exactly right, if it lines up with a rib or not.

- you can do chord wise [wing tip to wing root]  - that was done, but rare, just check your reference - personally I wouldn't want to try and work with a decal that large unless I had to. Your copy/past mockup is far more common [make sure the decals but up like between panel 2 and 3 or you will see the seam under the rib taping...  these wingnut decals are pretty impressive]

if you take a close look at the wnw instructions they do show roughly where the decal edges should meet, see below the dotted lines, on the right image - the dotted line above the radiator matches my roland below [which I incorrectly covered with rib tape!] the dotted line below also shows a joint between 2 spars, but mine actually would up on the rib.

You can see all the build pics here: http://www.onetofortyeight.com/Assets/Galleries/RolandDVIa/ - they might give an idea of how I laid them out [the Albatros will be similar]

Also - there's an LVG a directory up: http://www.onetofortyeight.com/Assets/Galleries/

Be stingy with those decals, cut templates, there is next to none to spare!

-best regards
-sean

Thanks for the info Sean.  I am looking at the decal sheet differently now.

This is the first thing I was thinking you meant.  This is the WNW lozenge decal sheet.  I assumed they are to be applied in 1 piece straight across the wing span from root to tip.  Then adding what you said about the panels may not quite match up, you might get a seam in between the ribs with a mismatch like I show with a copy/paste  on the bottom section.

Now I am thinking it is this...I measured the short dimension and it scales up to 50" wide.  More ore less in line with what you said.  So are these supposed to be turned vertical and applied in sections across the wing.  And as you you said, if it lines with a rib or not... whatever.  But tape only on the ribs themselves.

Even though I am finishing a PBP and started a Stug I am always thinking about the Albatros.  So a ? for those experts about the lozenge for the wings.  The decals come in long strips that look like they will just across the wings panels from side to side.  There is a different set for the bottoms of the wings.  Same pattern but much lither in tone.  OK, finally the question.  Where would the seam be between the upper and lower for the leading edge of the wing?  A straight seam right at the LE or would the upper roll under the LE and overlap the under side lozenge a bit?

The lozenge decals won't fit exactly between the ribs and line up nicely, the decals will meet up between ribs in some sections, and this is correct. The ribs were covered with rib tape - so you won't see some of the seams, however where the 2 edges of the decals meet between ribs you should leave free of rib tap so that there is a visible demarcation - don't worry about trying to 'line up' the lozenges - the Germans didn't either. ;)

Reason - the material they used came in 4 foot [approx] widths,  where they just 'happened' to line up with ribs, 'great' where they didn't - 'oh well' and they were just stitched together, it would have been too much a waste trimming all that material away.

Now - that being said, you also have the option of laying the decal chordwise [not very common] OR more commonly than chordwise was a diagonal arrangement, which can look pretty cool!

As to the leading edge - you will have to check specific references, but also the leading edge had rib tape covering that as well.

-best regards

-sean

Arron, thanks for that page.

Here is the "first draft" of my turnbuckles(TB).  Been noticing the TB on one side and the other being a cable around an eyelet with the cable then wrapped with thin wire to hold it all together.  The TB is the Lion Roar tubing.  I just need to get the wrap more even.

This is the wire I used. My local sporting good store has a monster huge fishing section and they had the Ultra Wire that doog picked up.  The #80 bit is for comparison.   The Ultra Wire is in the middle. That scales up to about .21 or 7/32.  That sounds about right for the rigging.  The thinner wire for the wrap comes from and old phone charger.  I'll bet everyone has  a few of those around the house.

wing_nut

OK, finally the question.  Where would the seam be between the upper and lower for the leading edge of the wing?  A straight seam right at the LE or would the upper roll under the LE and overlap the under side lozenge a bit?

There is probably some variation based on specific aircraft but there is a Fokker DVII on this site that shows the front of the wing pretty well. It looks to me like there is a seam just slightly more to the underside of the leading edge.

http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/BromeCountyMuseum/index.htm

Glad to have you bockscar.  Whenever you're ready just let me know.

wing_nut

Welcome one and all to the

 

Group build to end all group builds

 

About the

 

War to end all wars

 

(yeah, how’d that work out?)

 

The Great War

 

Hey Wing_nut, I'ld like to join as soon as I finish up with the Phantom II Group Build. 

I have a couple of subjects but will commit a bit later.

I'm sorting through my artifacts for ideas.

Thanks

Even though I am finishing a PBP and started a Stug I am always thinking about the Albatros.  So a ? for those experts about the lozenge for the wings.  The decals come in long strips that look like they will just across the wings panels from side to side.  There is a different set for the bottoms of the wings.  Same pattern but much lither in tone.  OK, finally the question.  Where would the seam be between the upper and lower for the leading edge of the wing?  A straight seam right at the LE or would the upper roll under the LE and overlap the under side lozenge a bit?

Great progress there Aaron.  Both subjects off the beaten track too.

Glad that like will be useful.

wing_nut

Mike, in case you have not seen this... some nice engine detail pics here.

http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Engines/Mercedes/MercDIII/

Thaanks, that looks useful for me too. The Junkers has a very visible BMW motor that looks similar.

Got some work done.

The Junkers D.I was a late war all metal monoplane fighter. It was one of the fastest fighters built during the war, but production was very slow, and few had been delivered before the war ended. It was the last all metal monoplane fighter to be used by any nation until the US adopted the P-26 in 1933.

The kit is pretty typical for Roden. It has very fine detail, but there is lots of flash to clean up and it needs quite a bit of adjustment for a good fit. Most parts are a little oversized so careful sanding and dry fitting will avoid the need for very much putty.

The Sopwith Triplane inspired a rash of German imitators including the famous Fokker Dr.I. It had a fair bit of success, but a short service life since the French and British pilots prefered faster aircraft like the Sopwith Camel, Spad XIII and SE-5. 

This is a fairly old kit, but has held up pretty well. The sturdy struts used by most triplanes really helps balence the fiddlyness of the third wing.

Mike, in case you have not seen this... some nice engine detail pics here.

http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Engines/Mercedes/MercDIII/

Thanks Mike, I was wonder the best way to cut this stuff.

I need to start proof reading my posts.  I am dunking  What the heck was that all about

wing_nut

 

I just ordered the Lion Roar tubing.  I am dunking that after I cut the pieces to length... 1'8' scales to a 4" trunbuckle... I am going to taper the ends with a sanding stick.

 

Marc, that stuff makes great turnbuckles! I roll mine under a sharp #11 blade until it cuts through, then chuck it into a pin vise and round off the edges. If needed (and it usually is), I re-establish the holes with the tip of a new #11 blade.

Ernie, good to see ya buddy!

DoogsATX

First thoughts, without really having much chance to play with any of it? This stuff is SMALL. Even the standard size (1/32") is tiny. The micro tubing, at .01" (.25mm or thereabouts), is ridiculous. 

Lastly, the ultra wire. I ordered small and extra small, no idea what the size meant. Here are the wires next to a 32 gauge wire, the smallest I've been able to find readily available. This stuff looks fantastic for wiring engines...

Arrange, left to right, x-small, small, and 32 ga.

So Doogs - what's your impression of this stuff? Quality looks good?

Also wondering if the smallest gauges of micro tubing and ultra wire have any use in the "regular" scales (1/32-1/72) or if I should stick with the larger offerings. Any ideas in that department?

Thanks for the pics!

On tubing that fine I think it will be tough to cut with razor saw.  The teeth will be big compared to the tube.  Maybe the fine side of a JLC saw. 

Thanks for the wire info.

wing_nut

Doogs, I have used other brands of the nickel tubing just not that small.  Very hard tubing so take care when cutting. It wreck some "regular" modeling clippers.  Best way i found was scoring it with a file and snapping like glass tubing.

Where did you get the ultra wire?  Is it actual wire?  That's some small stuff.  The 32 gauge wire is .007" or .2 mm.

Mike you can build as many as you want.  Just keep adding them and I'll keep update the list. 

What about a razorsaw? 

Failing that, I can always put a cutoff wheel on the dremel. And it really gets real, I can always fire up the air scissors! 

I got the ultra wire from that same fly fishing supply site. It's actual copper wire. Tiny. The extra small is actually rather difficult to handle because it's so small that it's hard to see when you've got a grip on it with pliers!

Doogs, I have used other brands of the nickel tubing just not that small.  Very hard tubing so take care when cutting. It wreck some "regular" modeling clippers.  Best way i found was scoring it with a file and snapping like glass tubing.

Where did you get the ultra wire?  Is it actual wire?  That's some small stuff.  The 32 gauge wire is .007" or .2 mm.

Mike you can build as many as you want.  Just keep adding them and I'll keep update the list. 

Mike-

I'm excited to hear of you tackling the Albatross!  If it's near the quality of your Pfalz build, it will

be fantastic.  Really looking forward to seeing more of your expertise!

Ernie

Well guess what was waiting for me in the mailbox this evening?

First thoughts, without really having much chance to play with any of it? This stuff is SMALL. Even the standard size (1/32") is tiny. The micro tubing, at .01" (.25mm or thereabouts), is ridiculous. 

Here's a close up of the micro tubing.

Stuff looks promising. Even if it doesn't go into the turnbuckles, this stuff will be useful all over the place for future scratchbuilding efforts, hoses, brake lines, you name it.

I also ended up ordering some Albion .5mm nickel silver tubing from Sprue Brothers today (stumbled across a Dragon Firefly Ic smart kit for $30...less than I've ever seen anywhere...and had to make the shipping worth it!) which could work very well. 

Lastly, the ultra wire. I ordered small and extra small, no idea what the size meant. Here are the wires next to a 32 gauge wire, the smallest I've been able to find readily available. This stuff looks fantastic for wiring engines...

Arrange, left to right, x-small, small, and 32 ga.

WOOHOO a flurry of activity.

I just ordered the Lion Roar tubing.  I am dunking that after I cut the pieces to length... 1'8' scales to a 4" trunbuckle... I am going to taper the ends with a sanding stick.

OMG!!! MosquitoCon!!!!!!!!!!  I forgot to put something n the GM section.

Spec-tacular.  Would love to hear about it!

dupes

Mosquitocon...need to find a way to fit that into my schedule one of these years.

Side question - any of you end up ordering stuff from that fly-tying place mentioned on the last page? I'm looking at that micro-tubing, some of the spooled lead wire, and the "Ultra Wire" and wanted to see if any of you had picked some up and had any feedback.

Anyone?

Yep. Ordered all three sizes of the micro tubing and some ultra wire (it was all pretty friggin' cheap, and with free shipping to boot!). Haven't received them yet, but I'll report back when I do.

Mosquitocon...need to find a way to fit that into my schedule one of these years.

Side question - any of you end up ordering stuff from that fly-tying place mentioned on the last page? I'm looking at that micro-tubing, some of the spooled lead wire, and the "Ultra Wire" and wanted to see if any of you had picked some up and had any feedback.

Anyone?

Speaking of Mosquiticon, I see on the website that 'new rooms' are being used. Presumably that means the show is getting to big for the old rooms?  The vendors area I know were definitely feeling a bit tight the last few years - which is a good thing.  So what's the inside scoop?

BTW, you guys with all the fancy rigging buckles are making me scared to start on my plane.  I feel like i need to try the buckle thing!

Ok, catching up time!

 Mike/Ruddratt – Really nice detailed work… love the WIP pics.

 TD – Did you just clap and clicked the heels and the kit snap together?:) nice job, specially the highlights. Also the tracks; you made them look sharp! Congrats on the finish! I hear you about the paint issue; both LHSs close to me have closed, and I have nowhere to go and pick up some paints.

 Doogs – Great link and pic, thanks for sharing!

 Nate – Gorgeous work on that bird; and great info!

 I got some heat-shrink tubing from Micromark, but I do not think you can get them that small. I will have to get to Norwalk to the fishing stores and get me some stuff!

 PS – Marc, speaking of March shows, whats happening with MosquitoCon? I have been out of the loop for a bit, drasted Real Life keeps getting in the way!

EDIT - oh, forgot i was in the 21st century and can actually look stuff up in the Internet! Duh!

Marc, if it's cool with you, I'd like to add another build to my entries., WnW's Albatros D.V. I've also been checking out their website and I see another purchase in the near future, just not sure which one. I'm leaning towards the Roland D.VIa.

Also, when it comes to making turnbuckles, I've had the most success using the same brass tubing from Lion Roar that Nate uses. It's amazing stuff, and not as hard to work with as it seems.