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ARMOR - Towed Gun Group Build (ends 7/1/04)

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 7, 2004 3:25 AM
That is going to make a great model/diorama Muzzleflash. Hope it all goes to plan.

Matt
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 7, 2004 11:27 AM
John, thanks for the updates -- I ordered my Masters set from Scale Link in the UK. They are on their way, apparently. The dolly (or whatever) isn't much of an issue to me, as I'm not using it anyway. I just wanted the wheels/tires.

Muzzleflash, that stuff is looking great!

zokissima, this is the AFV Club kit of the 8" howitzer. I don't know if there is a resin one, actually. The big prime mover I have planned to build for the gun is resin, though.

I've been stalled on my gun because I plan on displaying it towed by the Mack NO, and that may cause assembly problems on the gun. I need to have the gun towed at a certain angle -- it's the old quandary I started the build with. I may now actually hop back onto the truck build. [:0]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 7, 2004 1:44 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn

I've been stalled on my gun because I plan on displaying it towed by the Mack NO, and that may cause assembly problems on the gun. I need to have the gun towed at a certain angle -- it's the old quandary I started the build with. I may now actually hop back onto the truck build. [:0]



How about having the truck arriving to pick up the gun?
"We have orders to take this gun to Hill 135".....

So it is a "About to be Towed" gun Tongue [:P]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 7, 2004 4:02 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88

How about having the truck arriving to pick up the gun?
"We have orders to take this gun to Hill 135".....


Or maybe, "hey baby, come here often? What's your major?" Tongue [:P]

I think it's gonna look cool all hooked up.

John, did you get the TM yet?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 7, 2004 6:36 PM
Larry:

Good News: TM 10-1679 arrived today.
Bad News: It is a Maintenance manual, not an Operators manual.
Good News: It does have some discussion of the towing components, so here you are.

Seems that the pintle is removed and stowed.
In its place goes a U-joint to which the trail clamp fastens.


Url #1 is the above pic of said Draw Bar (which is replacement pintle + trail clamp).
Url #2 & #3 have an extract of the operation of all this & some pictures.

http://home.earthlink.net/~jratzweb1/images/Mack01.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~jratzweb1/images/Mack02.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~jratzweb1/images/Mack03.jpg


And for being such a nice guy thru all this, I'll throw in some cab detail ...

http://home.earthlink.net/~jratzweb1/images/Mack05.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~jratzweb1/images/Mack06.jpg


And you remember the pic of the Mack pulling the gun over the hill ?

I (really we) now expect a super build -- get to it !!!Big Smile [:D]

Some of these didn't show well, so I chnaged to url so you can right-click & save.
If you have problems with them, let me know & I'll send 'em to you off forum.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 7, 2004 9:09 PM
OK>>> Now i understand your mack dilema (i think)... you are trying to figure out the difference between hooking the truck up to the limber/gun or just hooking it straight to the gun.... right?


  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 7, 2004 10:18 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz

Seems that the pintle is removed and stowed.
In its place goes a U-joint to which the trail clamp fastens.


AHA! Azimut gives you that U-joint and the horizontal pin -- now I know how it goes into the AFV Club gun. Great stuff. Thanks a million!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 8, 2004 7:47 PM
Larry:
Glad to help.
Now if I can just get my own Mack NO kit.
Now maybe back to building, hasn't been a real productive week for lots of reasons....
John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 10, 2004 7:44 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88

OK>>> Now i understand your mack dilema (i think)... you are trying to figure out the difference between hooking the truck up to the limber/gun or just hooking it straight to the gun.... right?



Yep. The towing pintle on the Mack is different from the hook-up point on the limber. And there are a million fiddly parts that you have to install that are glued on based on how high up the trails are jacked.

Not that suspension issues have ever existed for an armor modeler before though. Tongue [:P]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 10, 2004 9:21 AM
I decided the best course would be the get the Mack truck (my prime mover) built just enough to figure out how to complete my 8" howitzer. That involved getting the towing pintle up to the right height, and that in turn required that I clean up and assemble the lower half of the truck -- or at least the chassis and suspension, etc. so I could prop the wheels on.

So I spent Sunday doing just that. It's not like it's time wasted, as it got me a good head start on the prime mover, and a massive truck it is too. I had to clean up the chassis, suspension, axles, engine, etc.

The Azimut truck isn't a bad kit, as resin kits go. The lower part of the engine block is provided and it's pretty cleanly cast, but there is a massive resin overflow at the top which took a while to sand down -- I wasn't a fanatic about it, as it disappears up into the bottom of the truck anyway, but it wouldn't fit properly unless it was whittled down a fair bit.

Construction of the suspension was pretty straightforward. The fit of the model is good so far.

I propped six of the ten wheels on and measured how far off the ground the towing pintle is. That should give me a decent final height for my trails before I assemble them -- I may actually try a dry fit on the pintle, but that would involve affixing the wheels to the truck and that might be more trouble that it's worth. (I obviously don't want to glue the wheels on yet.)

I then turned back to the gun and worked on some of the fiddlier parts of the suspension. I have to leave a lot of parts off until I have that height determined. That I can't do until I have my Masters Productions WWII wheels for the gun. D'oh! So for now it's a little of this, a little of that.

Some of the parts will also require a bit of conversion, but nothing too spectacular. Easy stuff I can do.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 10, 2004 5:27 PM
Think I'll give the old 8 inch a miss, I don't need your headaches guys.

Started the little Pak 36 3.7mm for the GB, expecting a quick build. Had the old Eduard set for it (dated 1995 on the fret) but when I opened it I was not that impressed. Eduard have etch engraved the face of the gun shields to give a cast look and remove some of the material to leave raised areas for the hinge attachments, shield retaining bolts, etc. All they have done is thin it to an impossible wafer size. Even the most careful handling whilst trimming off the fret has bent the main shield and left a crease line. Furthermore the top shield section is in three pieces and because they are so thin they all actually curve; no way can you get them flat. The replacement paddle for the rear of the gun breech is too thin, and does not have the curved surround seen on the real thing. This pic unfortunately does not show the probs well enough (also includes Daimler for the Small AFV GB).



Therefore, I have had to carefully trim off all the hinge, etc detail off the kit parts and sand that down and sand down all the edges to give the impression the whole shield is thinner. I will add the PE parts to the kit shield. The paddle has 2 bad sink marks in it which are nigh on impossible to fill and sand without damaging the x detail inside. So to remedy that, I have sanded off the x inside the paddle and trimmed the too thin PE piece down at the edges. This has allowed me to fit the PE part inside the kit part. Looks much better.

The trailing legs are moulded offset and will have to be replaced or I will have a flatten tube look. So much for a quick build!

Well that's it for now.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Monday, May 10, 2004 6:37 PM
Finally I have finished my Flak 36 Dio. Here is a sample pic. The rest of the pics are posted outside of this thread.



Can I have my badge now? He-he-he.

Wink [;)]

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 10, 2004 8:27 PM
Larry:

If you haven't ordered AA#13 yet, I gotta tell you I wasn't impressed at all with it (for the HST & LT). Pictures are a mish-mash of stuff (M4,Mack,D8,155,8") and little coherency or in my case little new of interest.

Glad you are moving on yours. I'm trying to get going also & got some work on all the major components done today. Like you, I am waiting on the Masters detail -- that'll at least let me finish up my enhanced M5 Limber. Still haven't started the HST. My hang-up right now is that I have back-dated the AFV gun to the M2 standard which various Ord catalogs indicate became standard in Sep'44. Yet I do not think I have one picture of an M2 Gun in WW2 or KW !!! And I have a pretty good home library.

You are lucky with the 8" because it wasn't jacked out of battery for transport like the 155 was, because my hang-up right now is trying to find a picture of a gun with the Front & Rear Retracting Eyes on the gun & cradle rather than the Bracket & Sheave on the cradle of the M1. The AFV cradle isn't complete for any version of 155 !!!!

If anyone knows what I'm talking about, and can help, I'd appreciate it.
I do not feel like changing course & backdating this thing all to an M1 !!!
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Clovis, Calif
Posted by rebelreenactor on Monday, May 10, 2004 10:00 PM
Is it too late for me to join this build? I have a Howitzer waitng in my pile and have gotnothin else todo. Let me know. Its perfectly fine ifiam too late.
John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 10, 2004 10:15 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz

If you haven't ordered AA#13 yet, I gotta tell you I wasn't impressed at all with it (for the HST & LT). Pictures are a mish-mash of stuff (M4,Mack,D8,155,8") and little coherency or in my case little new of interest.


Already ordered it!

QUOTE: Like you, I am waiting on the Masters detail -- that'll at least let me finish up my enhanced M5 Limber.


I got it today, with a mixture of happiness and dismay. The pieces themselves seem nice. There are backfdating pieces in the kit beside the wheels, little bits here and here to make the guns look more like M1.

Problem is that some of the pieces are not described in the instructions at all. Also, the wheels don't at all match the description in the instructions, and I have no idea how to install them. You're supposed to slip the wheels+tires you get over the kit piece B30, but there is no holew in the back of the rearward wheel to fit it in. To complicate it, the front wheel and the rear wheel have matching pins on them, and then you can just leave off piece B30 and install the wheel right on the axle, but then there's a huge gap between the front and rear wheel.

Are there gaps like that in the photos in A&A13? I mean, between the front and the back wheels/tires on the gun's suspension? My sources show the tires fititng snugly together, kinda spooning. Tongue [:P]

Seriously, it is pretty upsetting. I may even say F it and put the kit wheels on.

Oh yeah, I amlost forgot. I got five of the front wheels and three of the rear wheels. Thank you, Masters Productions.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 10, 2004 11:36 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelreenactor

Is it too late for me to join this build? I have a Howitzer waitng in my pile and have gotnothin else todo. Let me know. Its perfectly fine ifiam too late.


Go man go! All are welcome between now and July 1. The purpose of this GB is to get you to build and display a cool towed gun.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 10, 2004 11:39 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz

Larry: An update -- I found the Masters sets at www.blast-models.com a French site and ordered 2 sets. One set was 15Euro & they have a 20Euro minimum. We shall see what we shall see ....



BTW, John, have you seen the bigger picture of the Masters set online? I coulda sworn I found it using a websearch a few days ago, but now I can't find it! It's not the little picture I posted, it's a photo of a 155 (I think) with all the Masters junk attached to it. Can't find it now! I coulda sworn it was on the Blast website, but now I don't see the Masters set there AT ALL! [:0] This has not been a great night. Sad [:(] Tongue [:P]
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:30 AM
Wow, great job Dwight.

I've spent the last few days remodelling my house, and in all the confusion, didn't have time to do squat for this. Also, with school and work this week, looks like I'll be falling behind even further
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:44 AM
Dwight, great looking diorama! Thanks for posting the pics.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:53 PM
Zokissima/Larry: Thanks for the kind words. I have affixed the badge to my sig now if you don't mind.

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Clovis, Calif
Posted by rebelreenactor on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 8:21 PM
Thanks Larry!!!
John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:48 PM
Sorry i havent posted lately but I swear i'm finished I'm just waiting for my Dad to upload the pics

goo job on that 88 dio too!!!!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:50 PM
Larry:

Wow, & I thought we were moving forward !!!!

My Masters kit hasn't shown yet, expect it next week, but when it does I'll look at it & your post & we'll figure this out the way we figured the other stuff out. Meanwhile, I'll have a few more beers .... Since I have the TM's available, it's easier for me to look at the parts with them in hand ...

The masters I saw showed the Limber & new Bogie Wheels/Tires & that's all.

My bad news is that I think I'm heading for a Korea build, which isn't all that bad. Based oin all my research (see whine way above) it appears the M2 gun probably didn't see WW2 action except maybe on limited basis in the Pacific & I have no proof of that yet.

I wish I had decided to back-date this kit to the M1 gun !!! I could change direction right now & backdate this to the M1 gun, but I'm just too stubborn .... and I don't want to be scrounging around for parts to make the bracket & sheave .... although the pictures of the prime mover pulloing the gun out of battery are pretty neat for a diorama ....

Did I mention a few more beers ??
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:52 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by zokissima

Wow, great job Dwight.

I've spent the last few days remodelling my house, and in all the confusion, didn't have time to do squat for this. Also, with school and work this week, looks like I'll be falling behind even further


Yeah, my excuse is power-washing & sealing the decks .... Wifey cracks a mean whip ...
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:57 PM
Will: We'll be happy to see those pics.

You were also doing an 88?

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:10 PM
Sorry UI dont know how that happened but it was supposed to say Good job changing it now
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:56 PM
Looks great Dwight, gotta go see the other pics.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:58 PM
Thanks, will & petbat.

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Clovis, Calif
Posted by rebelreenactor on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:14 PM
I started my howitzer yesterday and am almost finished, have to glue a few more things and the paint it. Then im done! That would be areal Quik GB!
John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:02 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jratz

I wish I had decided to back-date this kit to the M1 gun !!! I could change direction right now & backdate this to the M1 gun, but I'm just too stubborn .... and I don't want to be scrounging around for parts to make the bracket & sheave ....


The sheave is in the Masters Production set. There's actually a decent amount of stuff in the set besides the wheels. Don't know what you mean by "bracket" -- if you mean the mounting part the sheave fits onto, that's in the MP set too, replacing the kit one for the M115.

Masters wrote me back a few days ago to tell me that their set includes all the wheels. The guy at Masters says that the wheels in the AFV club kit are ok for 1945 and Korea. When I got the set, I wrote him asking him about how the wheels go on, and about some of the other pieces that are in the kit but not in the illustrations, but I haven't heard back from him yet. I'll let you know if I hear back.

I think I know how you assemble the wheels, but the gap between tires seems rather far for what I've seen in period photos. However, it tallies pretty closely to this (notice the gap between the outside and inside tires):


If you install them the way I think you install them, you leave off the pieces for the rear part of the the wheel (B30) when you use the MP wheels/tires. It's molded right onto the resin wheel. There are even mating pins to suggest that this is the way you do it. Only thing is that the tires are pretty far apart when you do this.
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