ARMOR - Towed Gun Group Build (ends 7/1/04)

I'm back and yes I finished all my guns before the first but i'm still waiting to start making my website.

OK, Larry are you there ?

It is 1 July & just to show good faith, and because I know that since the start of this thing, EVERYONE has been awaiting the M5 Heavy Carriage Limber on my Long Tom, I thought I'd preview it. (Larry, betcha wish you'd built one too now....)

Anyway, the AFV 155 & 8in kits give you the M5 Heavy Carriage Limber, a late war replacement for the M2 HC Limber (which I think everyone preferred as safer & easier to use, but oh well ....).

There are 7 things wrong with the AFV Club limber:
-- no air brake lines (very visible)
-- no limber lift sling
-- no groove in limber lift guide
-- the limber mechanism should pivot about the axle
-- there were several locking pins & chains to keep pins &bolts from going astray
-- the instructions for the Limber are only correct if the gun is shown in firing position - for transport, the T-bolt is used to clamp the trails to the limber (& there are other nuts/bolts involved)
-- if you want a WW2 (& even Korean War) gun, the wheels/tires are wrong & there should not be handles on the trail clamp.

I worked on the limber to fix the above, back-dating it to late WW2. The limber in the pix below is mostly done. It has been built, painted, & washed. I have some tweaking to do and of course connect it to the gun itself (the two stray wires are brake lines to connect on the trails).








As to the general gun, it is mostly assembled, painted, and washed -- although I was fiddling with the wash & got it a bit too thick & so have some repair to do. I am working the pieces, starting to do some dry-brushing to get some color variance & highlight in. I'll restrict rust & etc to places on the trails where the spades are stored. I also routed a simple (but attractive, IMHO) base from a nice piece of 1x4 in my DIY stash and am putting some finish on it ....

All in all, a good day, and of course due to the Guinness & Harp from last night ....

John,
nice work there!
i just need to wash my AT crew.
i am building a dio base for the Pak 40, but i consider that to be outside the GB time limit.

on the Quad - got the decals on. was thinking abt painting the marking or running to LHS
for dry transfers for the numbers & letters.
then i decided not to be a twit and get something done instead!
put a bit of future where they were to go and put them on.
went well. will still have to shoot flat on it now.
the Limber is officially DONE,
the 25 pounder assembly is complete (less wheels, which are done)
needs to be painted & washed.

i am going away for holiday, so there will be no work or posts from
me until Tuesday.

take care.

John,
SWEET job on the limber!! The color coding on the airline fittings didn't go unnoticed either...nice touch! Can't wait to see the finished result.

John W.

Hey Guys!

Has everyone finished? I did not accomplish all that I had intended at the start of the group build, but I did finish my flakverling. I'm currently working on a small dio for it. I've tried to post a few pictures, but I seem to keep screwing it up. I have AOL, so shouldn't I have a picture host through AOL? How do I use it?

Can't wait to see everyone else's work.

Hmmm, anyone know why I got the dreaded red x when I tried to add the group build badge to my signature?

I FINISHED!!
i hope im not too too late, but it has been a busy week
the pictures are here: http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23161

Very nice, German under the PAK looks Supurb. Great job, keep up the good work.
Also Good job on your first dio!

OK, still trucking & here is some progress.

The pic below is of the lower carriage from the back -- I need to finish this up so I can close the trails. You can see air brake lines running from the air cylinders into the lower carriage (& thus back to the bogeys) as well as the clevis I added for the travel lock cable.

Also note, in the recoil mech that I have carved the two nuts off the stop under the gun tube & glued them here to cover the holes. When the 155 was jacked out of battery, the recoil rods were disconnected from the stop , and held in to recoil mech by the nuts. When the gun was jacked back in battery, the recoil rods were refastened using those nuts to the stop (under the barrel/breech). Anyway, the kit (again) is OK in firing position, but not in travel mode ....


Here is a shot of the rear bogeys -- if you look closely you can see the brake lines coming out of the center section of the carraige & running to the air cylinders. The odd little loop was to give the lines flexibiity when the bogeys were raised/lowered. Other than that, the rear section is still a work in progress ...


And lastly, I made a base from a nice 1x4, routed a simple edge, threw on a couple coats of semi-gloss polyeurathane, made a label in PowerPoint, printed it on photo paper, & glued it down .... There are bits & pieces of the gun laying arround for the heck of it.

The equilibrator tubes are done with my ol' standby, Rub-n-Buff. Note the cable running up from the lower carriage to the traveling lock -- something the kit didn't include & I'm having to build ....

The light spot in the springs is belated fill of sink marks that I have ben staring at for weeks & just kept forgetting to fill until now !!!

Boyd,
i think you accidentally shortened the link (for the badge) when you copied it.
it goes on to an extra line in the properties window.
use this, and you should be fine:
http://www.image-hosting.net/images/messageboard/bugswarm/towedgunGB.jpg

not sure if AOL lets you host pics that can be hot linked,
but there are a lot of sites around that do.
RonUSMC hosts for a lot of folks here. the thread that explains the nusts & bolts is here:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10017

a site that reviews free image hosts is here:
http://www.free-webhosts.com/free-image-hosting.php

the one i ended up using for quick posts
(no registration required)
http://www.imgspot.com/

please read http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20935
to see my full legal disclaimer. :-)

please post again if you are still having trouble, Boyd.
we want to see your build, so we will help!
:-)

happy 4th to all.

John,
very nice job on the Long Tom. details are great, and your explanation of the operation
are appreciated.

ShermanFireFly - saw your dio pics on the main Armor page.
very good concept & composition!
i agree w/ some of the folks there abt a bit of weathering for the gun, and a few
more details for the road, but a very impressive, especially for a first dio.
and i know, because i am trying to do my first dio w/ my GB Pak 40!
it is going to look very boring next to yours. you have done a good job capturing
the look of action.

Wildwilliam

Thanks for all your help!

Boyd

Whoops. Better get my digit out if I want to finish this build in a reasonably late fashion.

OK, folks, last interim post on the Long Tom build.

As you can see, I am making bigger sub-assemblies. I finally got to the point I could bring the trails together and start to put the gun in travel position, but it sure wasn't easy.

As I noted before, the stop under the breech isn't quite right and that includes the shape to get it into the trail travel lock. As I put parts in place they didn't fit, so I had to trim down & reshape the stop and trim a bit on the bogey travel lock -- finally all seemed to match. The bogey travel lock stuff is a bit frail when forcing things into place, so I did not have a fun day.


The Masters Prod detail set provides the bogey screw lock that AFV didn't and I added the chain that ties it to the bogey travel lock.



Another shot of most of the gun, this time looking into the area discussed in my last post -- note the cable which holds the trail-travel-lock in place. Ignore the toothpicks which are only temp .... Getting one end of the cable done was easy, but the last piece was tough; it might not look tight in the pic, but will be when done.



A close-up of the reworked trail travel lock, the stop, and the home-brew cable.


The Eduard detail set was mostly unused except to replace a few of the lumps on the trails with functional pieces -- note the rammer staff sections mounted inside the trails. In reality, these were more likely aiming post sections, but I got lazy. They are built from 1/16 sq balsa drawn thru a small round hole, then sanded & coated with polyeruthane & look like varnished wood.

OK, I have 3 days to get all the little pieces on, finish the painting, washing, weathering & etc. Not to mention make a muzzle cover (no threads in the tube - argh !!!). I do not have the time to really load it up with boxes, tarps, etc, to look like a travelling gun, but since I don't have a prime mover either .... this'll have to do.

I expect to post final pix Thursday night.

Thanks everyone and thanks Larry for creating the group build as it was a lot of fun

Sorry, guys, I was occupied a bit over the holiday, and kind of forgot about the group build, especially because of its relocation to outer Mongolia!

John, I can't see your pics because they seem to be free web hosted and I am blocked to those from work. Will try to log on at night and look over the next day or two. I'll bet it looks great.

I'm glad you guys are all getting good progress or are done -- I'm basically done with my gun plus truck but have some weathering to do, and need to add the decals as well. (Archer Fine Transfers.) I'm basically done, like I said.

I actually worked on my Formations Sherman M4A1 over the weekend along with my son, as he found it a bit more exciting than drybrushing a truck. It's done and will be getting a black prime tonight. But that's a story for a different group build!

Guys, I will be creating a Tripod webpage over the next week or so for the group build, and it will feature all of your photos. I'll post an e-mail address where you can e-mail me your pictures here in the GB. You can use your real name or screen handle, as you prefer. Personally, I may use my cunning web handle instead of revealing who I really am.

Larry:
If you or anyone else cannot see pix in messages here, then here are the links:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jratzweb1/images/imgXXXX.jpg

where XXXX are 2621,2624,2627,2632,2633,2637,2654,2641,2655,2640
in that order, I think ....

When you get display site set, I'll send you a better set of pix ....

Hey John, that's an impressive build-up. Thanks for posting the pics.

Guys, please check out this post on the main armor forum:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23339

DISASTER STRIKES !!!

Not one of my better days ....

All together, but despite my best efforts, the front bogie wheels are off the ground once the Limber is mounted. I knew I should have built a diorame with a slight hill that I could use to cover it !!! Well, it seems I can push down on things & achieve level, but that means some odd method to clamp this to the base & I'm afraid my detailing of the limber has weakened the axle & I'm unsure if it will handle sustained strain. Also, the pushing of things has broken two of the four cables on the bogeys that shouldn't be there in travel mode that I had decided to ignore & I have to decide what to do because it is way too late to do'em right ....

Then, in an effort to modify my base, I screwed it up & had to make a new one & get it coated & that's a rush job ...

Then when fixing the brake lines from the limber to the trails, I cut one too short & had to jury rig a patch ...

And, I have now broken the breech lever 6 times -- after the 2nd time I lost the broken piece & have been trying to save my hand-made replacement.

But it sure looks nice, even if I had to forget about some added stuff-ola ....

My new theme, without a prime mover, is simply an M2 in transport mode, slightly worn, but that's all ....

In retrospect, my initial goal of building a gun that could be displayed either in firing or in transport has caused me more problems than necessary ....

I have 36 hours & am too old to go without sleep ...

Thursday's goals:
1. try not to screw anything up !!!!
2. test drive a fix for the alignment (see goal 1)
3. finish weathering & etc ....
4. do the final mount of model to base
5. box it up with protection
6. pack some repair stuff (in case) & documentation

Well all, I know that the due date has expired but I'm going to have to formally pull out of this build. Last weekend my wife, despite my strenuous protests, got a cat. Today the cat got my 3.7mm Pak 36!

My 4 year old let it in the house without me knowing. I left it on the desk in my study and went to answer a telephone call. Then I got us some lunch. When I eventually returned to the Pak, hoping to finish it this week, it was missing.

One wheel and the chewed barrel are all I have found to date. I'm sure the PE bits, etc are in the carpet somewhere........... and no I have no intentions of inspecting the kitty litter over the next few days!

Guess I'll have to order a DML Pak just so I can hang something on the back of the Krupp in future.

Still looking forward to seeing all yours though.

John, despite my best efforts, the rear bogie wheels on my gun stick a little bit off the ground when it's hitched to the Mack NO, so I feel your pain. Now where's Monica?

Anyway, petbat, sorry to heatr about the CAT attack (get it?).

Hey guys, doesn't anyone want to put their gun pics on the website I set up? Not even one of you?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn John, despite my best efforts, the rear bogie wheels on my gun stick a little bit off the ground when it's hitched to the Mack NO, so I feel your pain. Now where's Monica?

Larry:
I know you were careful about this issue & I thought I was also.
I think the problem arises in the very 1st step of bogey build & no amount of effort with lower carriage & trails afterwards will help.

What I might try next time is to build the lower carriage & trails 1st.
Then start the limber & carefully measure trail height at the limber.
Then, figuring in the rear wheel radius, build a jig to hold the lower carriage/trail.
From that point, go ahead & start the bogie build on the lower-carraige/trails while in the jig -- it may be that I can tweak/jiggle/stretch/bend parts as needed.
I would glue as little as I could & think could adjust the axle/spring & stuff on the part that slides into the lower carriage and get a better fit.

Your opinion ??

Larry & all:

Last (originating) post here.

Here are three completed pix -- the full gun & detail of the limber & travel-lock stuff I've written about. These were taken Friday morning after the whole thing was done.







And here's a little pic of the same gun late Saturday afternoon.


Yup -- DownEastCon 2004, our IPMS Chapter (Eastern Carolina Plastic Modelers) Contest !!! Talk about unexpected !!!!! [:|] (And we had not only great turn-out from all around the region , but also great vendor turn-out & a great raffle & I have lots of nifty new stuff. If you are within a few hundred miles of New Bern, NC, you should be here next year !!!)

I have to thank Larry, not just for running a great GB, but also all the discussions he & I have had, here & in other forums, over the two AFV kits -- it certainly forced me to kick my efforts up a notch.

I also have to thank all the other folks, both here & other forums, that have contributed to my knowledge of the guns & modelling.

IMO, this is what I think a GB is all about -- not just slamming something down to get a badge -- but plenty of interaction among members that contributes something to individual knowledge & skill and also to the group/hobby in general.

Larry,
-- I'll work on a build article & some pix & send 'em to you by Tue
-- see note on other thread about problems viewing site.
-- Can I have a badge now ??
Again, thanks to all who commented to me or questioned me on something, as it all helped....

John

John, I think I should have just left the bogeys loose until I had the truck done. I didn't piut as much effort into the break lines as you did (translation -- I didn't do anything!) so I could ahve left them loose, then glued them up when the truck was done. I don't think you could have done that.

Anyway, I'm very glad to hear that you enjoyed the build, and I know I did too. It's been fun and informative. If I gave even one guy out there the incentive to pull out a towed gun kit and build it up for the shelf, then I'm a happy camper. Remember, to paraphrase Formations' motto, models are for the shelf, not the closet!

Update: still plucking away at my Mack NO. I'm putting the Archer transfers on, and now I'm up to the bumper codes. I never knew much about bumper codes before -- this project is really teaching me a lot.

Anyway, I've got the stars on the truck and the registration numbers, as well as most of the informational stuff (Max Speed 30mph, No Signals, and Caution -- Left Hand Drive). So if I can get the rest of the bumber codes on tonight, I will start the weathering process on gun and truck.

It's rough getting it done in the evenings, though. I don't get home until around 8pm, having left home at 7:30am, and am pretty tired by the time I get back.

I finished my towed gun a fair while ago, but I finally have it in a presentable state.
I built Alan's SiG33, to which I added a lot of scratchbuilt details, and then I put it in diorama with Tamiya's German soldiers at rest and Italeri's house ruin, along with some more scratchbuilt goodies.

Here it is:









All comments are welcome.

Phroosh:

Outstanding !!!! Technically & creatively !!!

Ok, hehe, I have pretty much finished my gun. I need to set it in a scene and add all the terrain detail to the model still but that is later after I finish the other models that have built up half-completed around my work area.







An early shot.


Sorry for the length of time this took to get in the forum. I started this when spring hit here in Texas and I love spring more than anything except fall and I have a very hard time staying inside much less building a model. Also adding to the delay, my wife and I almost called it quits this summer but fortunately we have handled our issues and the world is a much better place, AND... a friend of mine bought 20 acres of land and I spent every spare minute I could helping him prepare it for a house.

So.... as you see I just couldn't find time to work on the models that I had started. I hope this late submission doesn't upset anyone or ruffle any feathers. Thank you for allowing me to be in the build in the first place people! I really enjoyed building this model and I am probably going to build some more guns now because of the fun I had with this one!

Wow, I didn't even know this thread was still active.
Good job Scorn. I didn't realize the gun had such a long barell. WIll you be building the prime mover?

Absolutely! But I haven't decided if I will build it with this gun. I am kind of itchin' to put this gun in a gunnery position and dirty it up with some Russians and some crates.