Ken: Looks good! If I may I think he means instrument panel when he says IP. Btw: I try to leave the model lying on the bench to spray the bottom and then the top but I've picked them up when still wet and got fingerprints in there too, think we all do it....

GAF: Sounds like you're doing some serious work on her. And thanks for the head's up on the interior colours, working on a F6F now and I've been surprised by how much I thought I knew is wrong!  

Thanks Gaf,

When I opened the kit my eyes went straight to the guns Revell molded into the wings, They did not look like guns to me, they were pathetic. So I went to Ebay and found brass tubes made especially for  it. After I clicked on buy it now, I thought "Oh where is this coming from? Then I looked and thought ut oh, it came from Poland. But I had them in 10 days. No problems at all. I put guns in one side first when I was tired. When I looked at it the next day, I seen I have two barrels in backwards and one gun is just a little bit off, (its not out enough). But I figured most people aren't going to notice that. And it isn't bad enough to warrant tearing it apart and doing it over.

I want to do a bubble top too, but I am on Social Security Disibilty and don' t make that much.and Since i signed up to do a couple more GB's, it will have to wait a while. Maybe i can get it for Christmas this year. I'll throw a few hints out.:-)

I opened up the shell ejectors tubes under the wings.

What did you do for a gun sight?.

What is the IP?

What vents on the front do you mean; and where are they?

I found a few pics of the canopy and it looks like the top window all the way back in the canopy is painted? Did you find that. ?

PS I painted it already and now I'm wondering if it should not be painted

greentracker98

From what I gather on the P47, I think it will be close to specs I'm using yellow zinc primer in the wheel wells and green zinc primer in the cockpit area. I have these areas taped off right now, as I'm not finished painting. But here are a couple of pics. The bare spot just under where the canopy will go is from me getting a finger print in the wet paint

Oh Well, Some things I'll never learn. I think I do something on every build that creates more work for me to do

That's a nice looking Jug!  And the colors sound good to me.  You're much further along with yours than I am, even with sticky fingers.   Keep posting updates!  BTW, how did you do your gun tubes?

I have not made much progress on my "Double Ds" as I've come to call them.  The weather outside has turned wet, so no spray painting.  On the other hand, I've been detailing what I can.  No pictures, but here's a list.

RAZORBACK:

* Finished up the engine.  Just need to give it some oil wash and smoke.  Gave a second coat of "steel" to the interior of the cowl.

* Took a saw to the cowl flaps and separated them a bit.  Not sure how this is going to look

* Precoated the interior of the cockpit fuselage black, then painted it Euro Dark Green.

* Removed the kit gunsight.

* Finished detailing the Razorback cockpit except for the IP.  I'm thinking about what to do on this.

* Started trying to open up the vents on the front.  Very slow and painful.

  Bubbletop:

* This one I've finalized the paint scheme on.  Since I don't have some decals for "My Baby", I will have to make my own.  First, I copied the color profile from the Osprey book, then printed it out to scale.  The image is the same length as the Monogram P-47 (I measured).  Using the image and a circle template (did I mention I'm a draftsman), I found the circle that best matched the curve on the cowl.  Then using that circle, I cut out the mask for the cowl from painters tape and placed these in position.  When the weather clears up, I'll finish painting the cowl red.  It appears from the image that the red of the cowl has a thin black outline, and I'm hoping to do that with a fine tip marker.  We'll see.

Oh!  And got a package from Sprue Brothers in the mail today with some nice new wheels for the Razor.    I guess I couldn't get away from AM stuff completely on this build.

From what I gather on the P47, I think it will be close to specs I'm using yellow zinc primer in the wheel wells and green zinc primer in the cockpit area. I have these areas taped off right now, as I'm not finished painting. But here are a couple of pics. The bare spot just under where the canopy will go is from me getting a finger print in the wet paint

Oh Well, Some things I'll never learn. I think I do something on every build that creates more work for me to do

Greentracker98:  I understand about "slow".  I had a few months of it myself!  Hopefully, you'll get back on track.  Would like to see your Razorback build. 

As for the canopy, I was in Hobby Lobby today (Picking up a Revell B-17G) when I came across some plastic sheet used in picture frames.  It looks about the right thickness, and I began to think  "You know, if I built a form out of sheet brass using the inside of the existing canopy as a guide, then took some of this clear plastic and laid it on top and stuck it in the oven until it began to droop..."

Okay, that may be a bit beyond what I need to do on this kit!

P-47 Colors:  It appears that the IPMSStockholm site is down, and I don't know if it will come back up.

HOWEVER, I (with foresight) copied the relevant pages to my computer for information.  So here's what the IPMS Stockholm site has to say about the P-47:

Republic P-47 Thunderbolt

The subject of cockpit colours of the P-47 seems to have thus far defied conclusive analysis. Surviving P-47s and contemporary photos show a dark green shade in the cockpit, similar or possibly equal to Dull Dark Green. This is in contrast with the available Erection and Maintenance manuals which invariably call for green-tinted primer in cockpit areas.

The 1944 Erection and Maintenance Instructions covering P-47C, G and D state that "cockpits shall be finished with one coat of tinted zinc chromate primer to eliminate glare resulting from untinted primer." As can bee seen, the use of "tinted primer" is not consistent with the Dark Dull Green found in other evidence.

Perhaps an explanation is to be found in the formula of tinted primer given in the above manual. Nowhere in the above document is the tinted Zinc Chromate specified to match ANA Interior Green. Instead, the specifications include a rudimentary mixing formula, described as one gallon Black to one gallon Yellow Zinc Chromate primer. The formula is probably an error. If the intended colour was to be Interior Green, the document should have stated 1/10 gallon Black to 1 gallon Zinc Chromate, consistent with other Erection and Maintenance documents of the period.

A possibility remains that Republic followed the instructions to the letter, obtaining some sort of black-green colour for the cockpit areas. Other hypotheses claim that the colour used could be Bronze Green or Dull Dark Green. Another mystery.

Another conventional wisdom states that Curtiss-built P-47Gs differed from Republic-build P-47Ds by having Interior Green (actually, Curtiss Cockpit Green) in the cockpit and wheel well areas. However, this does not seem to be consistent with examination of wrecked P-47G parts, which show Dark Dull Green in the cockpit.

Since there were less than 200 P-47Gs made and they were only used for training in the US, this controversy is of limited interest to modellers, which would usually be interested in Republic-made Thunderbolts.

According to the Erection and Maintenance manuals, the fuselage decking under the bubble canopy of the P-47D from the windscreen to the area aft of the cockpit armour plating, was to be painted Dark Olive Drab 41, the same colour being specified for the anti-glare area of the forward fuselage. Armour plating was specified to the same colour as the interior finish of the cockpit.

Another yet unresolved mystery is the turtleback area beneath the rearmost cockpit window of the razorback versions. Many variants have been called for, but the most likely choices (based on the available contemporary colour photographs) are Olive Drab for the early camouflaged aircraft, and some kind of medium grey further down in the production.

According to factory instructions, the fuselage decking inside the canopy on bubbletop Thunderbolts was to be painted in Olive Drab, with the inside of the canopy framing in flat black. The rear armour plate in the cockpit was to be painted to match the cockpit interior colour.

Interiors of P47 aircraft cowlings were natural metal. The aluminium in this area was anodised giving a darker and very dull greyish appearance. The engine firewall was left unpainted. Engine mounts were primed in Zinc Chromate Green.

All other interior surfaces of the fuselage with exception of the firewall were finished in Zinc Chromate Yellow. This included also wheel wells, undercarriage covers and armament compartments in the wings.

Undercarriage legs were painted Dark Olive Drab 41 on camouflaged aircraft. This practice continued over to at least some natural metal machines. At some point in production the requirement seems to have changed to allow an Aluminium lacquer finish to be used.

Gaf - Thanks for the headsup on the canopy for the razorback, It looks like were doing the same kit. My plan all along was to have it in the open position. Pictures will be coming soon. Things (modeling that is) have ground down to a halt latley. Well, almost a halt. it's been slow going latley

Gamera:  Don't let me sway you.  What was painted at the depot or in the field could be anything.  I've considered painting the interior the same outside color as on the cowl.  Not sure how realistic that would be, but it would certainly look good. 

GAF

My P-47 Bubbletop is probably going to be from the 61st FS, built as an unknown HV-E.  The Razorback I'm going with "Pied Piper".  That red and white striped rudder sold me. 

Just to prove a point, I've got to correct the above.  The 'red and white' striped rudder is not for "Pied Piper", which has a white tail section.  That red white and blue rear rudder is actually a bubbletop scheme, and I think I will go with it instead of the 61st scheme.  I can't find a good picture of it, but you can see it here:

http://simhq.net/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1031527/1.html

And some information on its pilot, Alvaro J. Hunter:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ghunter/AlvaroJHunter.html

I found the scheme in the "Osprey Aircraft of the Aces 26: Mustang and Thunderbolt Aces of the Pacific and CBI".

Best thing about it is that I don't have to do those invasion stripes everyone complains about! 

Gary

PS> Figures!  Seems that IPMSStockholm.org appears to be down.

Hmmm, think I've painted the interior cowling on most of mine yellow zinc chromate. But if IPMS Stockholm says NM then they're probably right. I guess my next P-47 I'll have to go with NM too.

I think you guys are being way too kind, but at least I'm getting 'er done! 

I guess the consensus is to go with the open canopy, and that's what I'll do.  Next up some paint on the Bubbletop, which means masking.  Some detailing of the Razorback cockpit and a few dashes of paint.

Joe:  About the cowl interior -- when I first started this project, I did some looking online and came across the IPMSStockholm Aircraft Paint Guide.  Under the P-47, it stated that the interior of the cowls were left natural, and were anodized aluminum, a darker shade than the skins.  The engine mounting was painted zinc chromate.  Now, I don't know if that includes the intake housing.  Nor do I know if the information from the IPMSStockholm site is accurate, but that's the explanation for why I painted the cowl the way I did.

Gary

Indeed, It's looking nice there Gary. Yup, Canopy open. Simply save you some heartache. In regards to your engine cowling the inside was normally chromate yellow or green.

Gary, thanks and nice work there! The pre-shading on the bubbletop looks good and I'm looking forward to those cool red and white stripes on 'Pied Piper'.

Personally I'd agree, just leave the canopy open on the Razorback. Unless the plane is supposed to be in flight or the canopy is molded shut I normally open them anyway.

Thanks for the interest, guys!  I'll try to keep this going unless something else happens.

Joe: Glad to hear you're doing okay.  I do look forward to seeing "Eight Nifties" finished.

Gamera:  "Gladys" turned out really well.  I like the yellow nosed P-47s, but yellow is always so difficult to paint correctly.  I've never had much luck with it.

My P-47 Bubbletop is probably going to be from the 61st FS, built as an unknown HV-E.  The Razorback I'm going with "Pied Piper".  That red and white striped rudder sold me. 

Another small update for the builds.

Most of my time has been spent watching paint dry -- literally. The gray enamel paint used as primer certainly has a long curing time.  I think I will try something different on the P-47 Razorback.

Once the paint was cured enough to work on, I proceeded to fill the gaps and small holes left behind and then re-sprayed a little to cover.  The large gap in the rear fuselage is gone now.
I experimented with many fillers on the Bubbletop as I was putting it together: squadron putty, CA, Sig white glue, modeling clay, and even liquid paper.  I was not very happy with any method.  I used CA on the rear fuselage, sanded, then thick gray enamel paint.  It seemed to do the trick. Taking some 1000 grit sandpaper, I knocked a bit of the shine off the primer, then proceeded to undershade using flat black and some thinner. Not sure how this is going to look when I apply the NMF, but this is a test bed for me.

Prop is painted.  Needs decaling and then detailing.

On the Razorback, you can see what DoogsATX said about this model earlier in this thread.

The canopy really does not match up in the back.  Really bad.  I see I have three choices:

1. Buy a new canopy.

2. Try to fix the existing one by sanding and polishing.  I will note that the canopy could probably be pressed and glued into a better fitting position as is, but I found that the side panels where the rear of the canopy are supposed to fit seem to be miscast.  The left side is fine, but the right is too shallow.  Only by cutting out the side panel and reshaping it could the canopy be made to fit.

3. Build the kit with the canopy in the "open" position.

I think I will go with # 3.  Simplest solution.  This means I will probably paint the pilot who will help hide the bare cockpit.  Not much detail inside.

However, I have an instrument panel and a gunsight left over from the True Details cockpit I placed in the Bubbletop, so maybe I can use these to spruce up the interior.  The cockpit I preshaded black and then painted Euro Dark Green.  I think that color is closest to some of the WWII color photos I've seen, but who knows what they were painted after leaving the factory and were reconditioned.

In addition, I've painted the inside of the cowl with 'steel', and began detailing (well, painting) the engine. Some finishing work on the cylinders, a grime wash and the engine will be about as done as I'm going to take it.

Once again, thanks for reading!

Gary

Hey Gary, You're Welcome. Fortunately for me I caught my condition early so I've been able to bring mine under control with diet, excercise and some natural supplements. Regardless, it required life changes and that was alright as I've certainly had to make more drastic changes other than those. But, I can say today I am healthier and happier.

Yeah, I'll get to "Nifties here fairly soon and when I do I'll be on here with it. I had simply put too much work into it to just patch it and call it good. So, I'll strip it and repaint/decal it and make her look sharp.

I encourage you to keep posting here as I will be here with you as I'm sure a few other folks will be also. Like Gamera there. It's great to meet you Gary and I hope we get the oppurtunity to chat some more.

Godspeed, Joe

Gary: Nice to see more interest in this GB. Built the same Monogram P-47 years and years ago, frankly I liked it- looking forward to seeing how yours comes out.

Thanks for the kind words, Joe.  I must admit it came as a surprise.  As someone said, "sometimes your car has to break down in order to discover what the problem is".  That was pretty much what happened with my health.

I hope your own health is good.  You never appreciate it until it goes!

Yes, I followed this thread picking up tips and information until things went downhill for me.  The "Eight Nifties" was looking really good until the wash thinner.   That was one of those *facepalm* moments everyone has.  I expect you will finish her in good time.   All it takes is a moment of "Let's Do This!", and before you know it the thing is complete.  You've already gone above and beyond what I would have done in recovery.  I would have just over-painted the bad area, using some different color and called it "battle-damage repair".  That's why I'm not a very good modeller. 

At the moment, I'm waiting for the primer to finish drying completely, then I'll tackle the gaps.  It's nothing that can't be corrected, I just don't want to leave fingerprints in the paint!

Since the GB is over, and DoogsATX is not around to update the front page, building a P-47 is not about a badge anymore.  It's a labor of love!  Or hate, as the case may be.    So I'll probably go ahead and post some updates here (until a new JUGS GB is started, or they shut this thread down).  I would really like to see anyone else's P-47s, especially those who didn't get to finish them before the deadline.

Joe, I would really like to see that "Eight Nifties" finished!  That nose-art is too good to waste!

Gary

Gary, First let me say that I am glad to hear that your life and health are improving. I can all too well relate to having to overhaul one's lifestyle in order to bring about a healthier and happier way of life. Including Diabetes. To that means modeling has been instrumental for me. Your "vintage" Jugs are looking good. Don't you just love it when you have filled and sanded and you just feel good about what you've done and then you apply the primer and, "DOH!!!". Such is our way in modeling. Unsure if you have backtracked through this thread and saw that with mine I had a horrible ALCLAD mess up. Being as it was getting close to the original deadline I did not see myself  being able to strip it and finish it in time. Thusly, I shelved it and started a new GB. But, given that this GB has become an indefinite timeline I will get back to my Jug and finish her up after I complete my FW 190. I will be stripping mine down with Polly S ELO. Keep the updates coming.

Joe

Well, I'll post this here since this is about "Jugs".

A view of two builds - The 1967 Monogram 1:48 P-47D Bubbletop (undergoing painting) and the Revell P-47D Razorback (now in test fit stage).

Today I finally put some primer on the Bubbletop, now that the weather is nice. One thing I have to contend with is the weather.  Apartment dweller that I am, I cannot set up a paint booth even if I had an available window.  So my painting is done with rattle cans out on the deck. I used a nice, gloss gray primer and managed to do a not bad job. When I got it back inside, there was an "Oh, C@%$#%P!" moment as I saw the rear fuselage top had a crack in it a mile wide.  Not to mention some spots along the stabilizers and wings.  Well, I expected those, but that fuselage gap surprised me as I thought I had done a good job of filling. For a model that is 40 years old, it could be worse.

In fact, the fit of the "old" Monogram kit seems better than the "new" Revell kit.  The plastic of the Revell kit seems almost paper thin compared to the older model.  This may be my own skewed perception, but I'm going to have to do more filling on the Revell kit than the old Monogram kit (even with my gaps revealed by primer).  Perhaps they did build things better back then!

Here's a picture of the parts.  New attachment pins and tubing for the aux tank, brake lines on the gear, and scratch-built inner wheel doors (built out of sheet styrene).  Also, new gun tubes from brass, stabilizer cylinders on the underside for the drop tank, resin cockpit and prop.

Thanks for reading all of this!

PS> When is someone going to start a new P-47 Group Build? <Hint, hint>

PPS> I've been rebuilding a Monogram bubbletop P-47D since June of last year.  This is probably one of the original castings, as the first build was done in the late 60s, certainly no later than 1971 (you can see the dark brown / green plastic on the bombs and the pilot).  I've carried this model around with me for that long (with a few others) and always intended to re-do it when I had the resources and time. Many things came and went over 40 years, but the models remained packed in a cardboard box, awaiting resurrection.

In 2012, I found myself with a new job and a new place of residence, plus some free time.  Moving what few things I had, I discovered this box of models (dusty and time aged), still with the original instruction sheets.  They said, "Hey! You're not getting any younger!  Either deposit us in the trash or get to work!" Nostalgia won out.

It was pretty easy to disassemble the parts, as I didn't believe in using a great amount of glue back then.  Since it was Testors Cement, it didn't take a great amount of effort to separate the pieces.(Soaking in hot, soapy water did the trick on the decals, the glue, and a lot of the paint).  The rest of the paint came off in degreaser and oven cleaner.  Well, most of it.  You can see some of the residue in the  picture.

I had a good start on the model, grabbing a new cockpit, and installing brass gun tubes to replace the old kit ones (of which some were broken off).  It looked like a lot of work, as there were missing parts (control column, inner wheel doors, antenna, gunsight,etc. -- all lost or broken over the years). Most would have said "scrap it", but I really wanted to bring the old girl back to life.

Unfortunately, life has a way of getting in the way of the ejoyable things. My health deteriorated over the months, and I really had trouble making any progress on the build.  Finally, I ended up in the ICU over the Christmas holidays with a blood sugar level of 1428, diagnosed with diabetes.  Well, at least I didn't wait till the last minute!

Since then, my health has been improving, though I've had to reorder my life somewhat, but the good news is that I'm back to building.

Gary

Geof: Thanks!!! Looking forward to the A-10 - can't help but love a Warthog...

Gamera

Well I finished the Tamiya P-47D last week and then took photos over the weekend. For some reason the yellow nose turned out funny in the photos- not sure if it was due to the overcast skies or some strange colour adjustment on my Droid phone, maybe I should drag out the camera next time. Anyway here's one of the better photos: 

Wow! Looks awesome, G-! Been off the bench for bit, doing life. A little stall on the A-10. Soon...

DoogsATX

Long way of saying...I do still poke my head in

As for the builds going on in here. Simply awesome!!

Thanks guys!!! Overcast again today, hopefully the weather will clear before too long, or I could just invest in a friggin' photo-set up...

Absolutely Outstanding Cliff!! Man, You did a terrific job on your Jug. It was definitely worth the wait for you to produce such an excellent P-47. I'm with Trey, more pics.

Sweet lookin' Jug Cliff! More pics if you please as one is such a tease!

Well I finished the Tamiya P-47D last week and then took photos over the weekend. For some reason the yellow nose turned out funny in the photos- not sure if it was due to the overcast skies or some strange colour adjustment on my Droid phone, maybe I should drag out the camera next time. Anyway here's one of the better photos: 

Gamera - Thanks, sometimes when you quit looking is when you find what your looking for LOL.

So, If you come across it let me know

Ken: I looked around for the P-47 slipper tank but so far still haven't found the thing. I'll keep looking but frankly I'm baffled at this point where it may have gotten to since it doesn't seem to be with the trashed old model or in any of my spare parts boxes. Things aren't looking too good right now - sorry.

Doogs glad you took the time to stop in and post,sure have missed you and your builds! That jug looks awesome and different all at the same time! Hope you can stop in more often,cheers Trey

Doogs: Sorry, didn't mean to speak for you but several people as you can see asked about you so I thought I'd try to give them an update. Funny, I've gotten pretty used to the new forum though yes it is a lot slower than things used to be.

Nice work on the French Jug, now that's something you don't see too often. Love the yellow stripes.

Gamera - Thanks. And I found the neutral Gray for the underside of Gabby's Jug. Testor's has it and I ordered it today (along with the sublime green (yellow)). I'm getting there.

Doogs - I just wasn't sure if it was okay to build the jug, since the GB was technically over. But ?I figured if I was still sugned up, I'd give it a go and if anyone objected, I'd give the badge back.

Thats going to be one great looking Jug you got there, I'm sure. I understand how format/program changes can throw one for a loop. Verizon did theirs not too long ago. I'm finally getting used to it now.

Gamera

Geof: He's mostly posting on the Scale Plastic and Rail forum now. I case you missed it a little while back a bunch of people got honked off at the mods and left. I didn't think Doogs was mad about anything but he seems to be burnt out on this forum.

Hey all - as Gamera says I've mostly decamped to SPAR. In large part because I feel this place hasn't been the same since the redesign/new forum software. Wasn't too thrilled about how it was communicated (i.e. not at all) or having to click use rich formatting or the useless mobile mode, but the new frontpage ditched recent posts in favor of just a bunch of categories, and to me the drop in activity was immediately noticeable.  So I started spending more time on SPAR, and over time it's just become lopsided. 

Long way of saying...I do still poke my head in, and nobody needs my permission to build a Jug!

Actually working on one myself right now...just knocked out the last of the paint masks and next it's on to cleaning up the paint lift.