I'm going to have to chaeck all of the fifty or so pages I've missed.........had a job change, grand opening, minimal time to do anything, just work. However, the job has settled down, and I actually have been doing a bit of modeling. Hope to havepics soon, and time to look at where everyone else is.

Shellback

Andy , thanks . As for working for the telco and painting .......havent you ever seen those tall poles with the red and white stripes at the top for low flying aircraft ? Who do you think painted them ?* Maybe your too young to have seen those . 

LOL!  Maybe you should have said this... "Maybe I am too old to have seen those?" 

Really am looking forward to return to the workbench... 

Marc , thanks, the casting #'s will remain as they are now .

Steve , yes , by the time i get the rest of the camo on and the weathering completed the above pic of my turret will be loooooong forgotten , Thanks .

Greg , thanks for your take on the camo application . You may be correct because it seems to be the theme that restored vehicles are repainted in . 

Andy , thanks . As for working for the telco and painting .......havent you ever seen those tall poles with the red and white stripes at the top for low flying aircraft ? Who do you think painted them ?* Maybe your too young to have seen those . 

Eric .............hi !

*Answer ............it wasnt me !

Jack , that link made for interesting reading , thanks . I have come to the conclusion that trying to get the facts about the correct colors and how they were applied is like questioning the witnesses of a car accident ten years after it happened for exact facts ..............everyone will have a different version Even with color pictures from the period and recovered vehicles to look at the debate is still not 100 % solved and people go away with there own concepts anyway .

Thanks again for the discusion .

Small update on the Tiger. I finished half the roadwheels and assembled the idlers and drive sprockets. Hope to get the rest done tonight.

SMJ- Beautiful work on the winter wash!!!  I hope to do the same on my Tiger.  

Carl- Lovely paint job!!!  You should have been in painting business not the telephone industry... 

Guys- Sorry for being quiet lately... no update either except for couple of upgraded tools with clasps I worked on between my trips.  Tomorrow I am leaving for my fifth trip this month and Washington DC is my next stop. Never had to travel that much in a month but there will be no more trips for a very long time so you will see me more here.  

Keep rocking!

Carl & Jack: what that order means is to paint 1/3 in dunkelgelb, 1/3 rotbraun and 1/3 olivgruen

hth

Shellback

 ...I've got to try this and see how it turns out ..too many times i have started this method and backed off because it looked too radical . I'm not there yet and i want to see how true to life it turns out .

Shellback:  I admire your determination and attitude!!!!  And I agree with your thinking too...you have a lot of layers to go and the effect will be "softened" as you go.  I have a hunch this is really going to KICK-A** when your done!!! 

Your comment on the soft plastic made me think.......hmmmm....I could soften the plastic with Testors glue then cut.  It would have a two-fold effect...easy cut AND the numbers would lose that crisp feel...

JOE RIX: Thanks for the camo' comment.  Can we expect any pic's of your PE progress?

Some great info and great pics at the links provided.

Carl, you just keep doing what your doing cuz it looks great.  I think the casting numbers look pretty darn good.

Carl, thx for the link... this particular directive reminds me a lot of the scenario experienced by the RAF when the order first came down to paint the undersides of aircraft duck egg blue.  

Wouldn't be surprised if some factory workers back then also wondered what exactly was expected.   I think there could be three possible interpretations when combining the link you provided along with this discussion: www.network54.com/.../Panther+Photos

One is what you are doing currently.  Second would be each of the individual camou colours laid down individually on top of the primer.  Lastly would be same as second, but with some areas of bare primer left untouched by the other colours, or they they all could be faintly applied (which would mean a fourth possibility).

Through b/w photos it's impossible to tell, and until a lost panzer is found in pristine condition like the recent discovery of crated Spitfires in Burma, I don't think we will ever know for certain.

I'd say carry on in the direction you had intended to.

regards,

Jack

Jack , i found the paragraph i was referring to . Its on the "Panzerworld" site ......here's the quote

"In mid-September 1944, the tanks were were left in the red primer as the base coat, with only limited camouflage applied by the factories. On 1944-10-31, this order was expanded to include that both Dunkelgelb RAL 7028, Olivgrün RAL 6003 and Rotbraun RAL 8017 should be applied in limited amounts over the red primer, and that Dunkelgrau RAL 7021 could be used in stead of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 is no Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 was available. There is no evidence that Dunkelgrau RAL 7021 was ever used, though."

And the link to the rest of the topic ........

http://www.panzerworld.net/colours

I'd appreciate reading your interpretation . 

Jack , in answer to that question ............i'm trying to find that site again so i can answer it for you and i . I've looked at a lot of photo's but i cant see anything like i'm experimenting with here . I'm sure that after i apply the rest of the camo the red oxide will not be as obviouse . That plus i'm going to be doing some heavy weathering that will also make the red oxide much less obviouse than it is now . I've got to try this and see how it turns out ..too many times i have started this method and backed off because it looked too radical . I'm not there yet and i want to see how true to life it turns out .

I do appreciate your questioning my artistic liscense here  . Question , if the answer was "limited amounts " of dunkelgelb to specific areas of the camo then was there bare swaths of primer red oxide that were not painted ? Or was that area covered in schokoladen (rotbraun) and olivbraun ?

Shellback

I read that the factory was ordered to apply dunkelgelb in limited amounts over the red oxide primer sometime in 1944 ..same with the olivgrun and rotbraun ..so thats the reasoning behind the primer showing thru here .

 Just being the devil's advocate, by 'limited amounts' did they mean a light application overall or perhaps segments of dunkelgelb as a camou pattern?

What you have done though, does look sharp.

regards,

Jack

"What we have here is a lack of communication "...........from 'Cool hand luke'

I sprayed the parts with dunkelgelb (Tamiya dark yellow ) and i had trouble with the tip clogging so i went ahead a coated everything with Future so that i can spray the camo with enamels ...........if i miss that up i can clean it off with thinner and not ruin the dunkel base . No barrel yet but i did order a Kwk 43/3 L/71 from RB models today . They have been out of stock there and at AK interactive but i found them in stock today at RB models site . They did raise the price a couple of bucks .....like everything else these days the cost goes up almost bi-weekly . Oh well , if i want it then i'll spend the money . I'm not forced to be in this hobby .

I read that the factory was ordered to apply dunkelgelb in limited amounts over the red oxide primer sometime in 1944 ..same with the olivgrun and rotbraun ..so thats the reasoning behind the primer showing thru here .

I did some sanding on the mantlet casting number ...........tried some other stuff that didnt work out but was able to save the numbers .

 I googled RAL 8017 and found this picture . Its credidted with originating at Missing Lynx . The caption says that the original paints were issued in cans that contained concentrated paste that had to be thinned to be applied . It doesnt say if these are the original cans . They look like Dunkelgelb , Olivgrun and Schokoladen ( same ral # as Rotbraun )

Thought it was interesting fodder for the ongoing discusion about WW 2 German  camo colors .

Steve , i'm thinking that the sprue i used was a soft plastic and that probably would make the cutting easier . Luckily i used a sprue from a Trumpeter kit (00204) and that plastic is soft ......especially when compared to the plastic in my older Tamiya kits . Maybe thats a big psrt of the success i had ?

Steve - That is really impressive. You have done an admirable job of capturing the weathered whitewash effect.

Being as I am behind in keeping up with the thread let me just say that the skill and abilities you all are displaying is simply outstanding!

 I'm slowly muddling along at the moment. Been working on the PE parts for the rear deck.

tigerman:  Thanks t-man for the compliment.  Thanks for the info on the Cav' zim, don't forget to take a few pic's OK?

wing_nut: Thanks for the "buff" info.  I like the slow setting CA idea for the Cav'...I foresee other uses for it too.

jgeratic: Thanks for the input on the whitewash!

Hinksy:  It's the Tamiya Tiger I Mid

Shellback:  Diagonal across the base of the numbers...hmmm...I think that's what I did...maybe I didn't cut deep enough.  I'm not sure when I'll have a need to add numbers but I'll keep your tips in mind, thanks

Gamera:  Thanks man!

That whitewash looks fantastic Steve - bravo!

Steve , about cutting the sprue numbers off .The most important part of it is to have a new and sharp # 11 hobby blade . I use a steady pressure and cut diagonal across the base of the numbers . Getting the numbers onto the model part surface ........now thats the challenge ! These things are so small and light . After applying enough liguid glue to the model surface to make it tacky but not soaked in glue I pick  up the number with the tip of the knife blade ,  and put them unto the model surface . After positioning it i apply a little more liquid glue and gently press the number into the surface . Let the glue cure for a day and then lightly sand it to lower its heighth .

Good luck !

Hi guys - thanks for the comments!

SMJ Steve - Tiger I looking sweeeet! I'm taking an interest in whitewash paintjobs at the minute as my next build is going to be Dragons Panzer IV Ausf G (Kharkov '43) with a whitewash.

Sorry, I'm too lazy to look back but what kit is that btw?

Ben

wing_nut

Never built anyting from AFV.  How are they?

Although I've yet to build an AFV club tank kit, I do have several artillery pieces and a 3-ton halftrack.  I'd say the molding quality, detail, fit and accuracy is on par with Dragon kits.  The  1/48 vehicles (some or all, not sure) are originally Skybow, but are considered real gems.

Here is a link posted from earlier this year regarding the market's Tiger I's:

http://tiger1.info/kits.html

SMJ - have to agree, that white wash as it appears right now looks smashing.

regards,

Jack

Hey Steve. Sure would love to take credit for thinking of this one but  like 99.99% of all the things I do, someone else did it 1st.  Such is life.  The main focus behind that over spray has more to do with pulling the 3 camo colors together and some scale effect fading than acting as a dust coat.  Although that is a small bonus.  Why lighten 3 different colors when this dose pretty much the same thing all in one go. 

The few winter camos I have done usually start with the bright white as the regular weather process will knock down the white.  I think the level of "white" on you Tiger look terrific.

If I may chime in on the zim question too.. I use slow setting CA for the Cav zim.  Good move around time and the surface is usually "porous" enough that when you get it where you want is a quick swap of zip kicker over the surface with a q-tip and it sets up real fast.

That looks wonderful Steve. Great used look.

I use a two-part epoxy so I have time to get it adjusted. If you use CA, it will bind too fast and if you screw up, you're up a creek. I usually only use the CA for edges and corners. HTH

wing_nut:  I've always been interested in your "buff" wash technique and I'm considering using it as dusting technique to knock down the white of my camo' finish.  I'm thinking of trying a grayish tone and then holding a piece of paper a few inches over the areas that I don't want any dust...I'm concerned that it will REALLY kill the work below though...hmmm...

Shellback:  I'm watching your multi-layer effects...I've always wanted to try that...liking it a lot!!!  I've tried to cut #'s off sprue with TERRIBLE (unusasble) results...can you give a short summary on how you did that? 

Hinksy:  I'd sure like to see that pre-shade first hand...looks cool!  Save the filter until after all the camo' is done.

tigerman:  Please include some info on how and what you use when you apply the Cav' zim"...I'm clueless on this stuff but I like the look.  I have a set for a Panther and would appreciate the tips

Hasenpfeffer:  Panther is looking sweet!!!

Guys: Here's several progress pics of my Tiger...washes over the camo':

bringing back the white with white oil paint diluted:

Several overall views:

Nice subtle effect Carl.

Sorry Ben... forgot to anwer yoru question.  The kit is the 1/48 Tamiya Panther G

Marc, Ben and Dave -- fantastic progress all! These tanks are looking so darn good, I wish I could get back to mine -- work is keeping me off the bench at the moment, I can only get on the forum once a day too!

M/TB379

Tony , i'll go back and look at that tomorrow and discuss it . For anyone else here's the link again for weathering

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/01/stuff_eng_tech_afv_weathering.htm

Eric , you'llget it squared away , hang in there my friend .

Here's where the paint scheme ends for today . I'm using Tamiya XF-60 , dark yellow , as the Dunkelgelb . I did a random spray of it over the red oxide and let the red show thru . Kinda pretty but I'll see how i feel about it tomorrow .

Shellback

Bummer Eric ...........but at least you got to the bench .

Yah. I made a mess of the mantlet for some reason. It didn't go down with glue all that well, so I spent a lot time (wasted) cleaning up areas and respraying yellow. I'm still not totally happy with the barrel, so I'll sand and spray more on it as well. I should have gotten an aftermarket barrel. 

The Tiger is at least started and I might try to work on it after I get home, otherwise it's only on the weekend.