Here is what I'm trying to replicate: I have the decals to match, so I'll do my best.

i450.photobucket.com/.../BF-109.jpg

Getting there...time to hide some of that shading though!

Dan: All those tiny track links and small parts give me a headache just looking at them!

Matt: Very cool, pre-shading looks great!

Thanks Gamera. My first experiment with shading actually turned out alright.

Hi guys, I've been working on the laminate armour around the driver's vision slit on the Pz.IV, and I'm hoping to have pictures up tonight of the finished installation. It's been fiddly, I expected it to be an easier scratch-build! After this there's the etched rack to assemble for the rear end, and in a few days my airbrush should be back from servicing, so I'll move ahead and get her into primer at the first chance.

Cheers, M/TB379

Hey Gamera, yeah they're tiny - using the individual track for extra improvised armor protection - the Dragon kit comes with 'DS' track. I'm using the Tristar Panzer IV Road Wheel Set due to the wrong sized kit road wheels (40 cm) - needed 38 cm size road wheels. Completed rear spare road wheel mounts and front mounted spare track and road wheels. Next up tow cables and scratch-building rear hull storage rack. Armor86

Promised update -- I finished the applique armour around the driver's visor, and while it's not as exact as I would have liked, we're only talking a1mm error in most aspects, and this is as fiddly as I can manage -- it might not look like it but there are 32 pieces of plastic making up this subassembly!

Here are the inner and outer armour layers plus their spacer bar:

The bolt heads don't show up here, they're burned out in the white of the plastic. Now the finished assembly on the model:

The bolts on the outer layer show up, the nine around the edges of the inner layer are fairly invisible here. Oddly enough, fitting the bolt heads turned out to be the easy part of the operation!

The only major detail remaining to build is the jerry can rack, which is a Verlinden etched set, and I'll make a start on that tomorrow. I'm hoping that she'll be ready for paint when my airbrush is returned, and I'll be able to run directly through to the finish more or less without interruption.

Cheers, Mike

Armor 86: Thanks, nice work on your Panzer IV.  

Thanks Bish.

Matt-Joachim: nice work the 109.

Just sprayed on a coat of Dullocate on my Tiger 1, should be all done on Thursday.

Dan & Mike: That's a fine a pair of panzers as you're likely to see anywhere!

Dan: Your Tiger looks terrific so far- looking forward to seeing her all finished.

Mike: I absolutely love all your scratchbuilt additions! Keep up the good work!

Dan: You got a really nice looking Pz.IV shaping up there!

Matt: Great work on that 109!

I got a question regarding the Pz.IV tracks if you guys don't mind. I'd like to replace the kit tracks with some Friuls, but I can't figure out which ones are supposed to go on there. I'm building Dragon's Ausf.E kit (the 1000+ parts one) and I recall reading somewhere that the E had 38cm tracks. The only problem with that is that Friul doesn't do 38cm tracks. They only have the 36mm and 40cm ones. The owner at my LHS just ordered both for me to choose the right ones when they arrive.

I'm thinking the 36cm tracks are more likely to be correct because they could've been fitted to the tank because of a shortage of 38cm ones? I also think the 40cm tracks required wider sprockets, so those wouldn't even fit?

The referances I have indicate that the Pz IV Ausf F was the first to use the 40cm tracks, increased from the previous 38cm tracks. So this would imply that the Ausf E had 38cm. And I am not aware of any Pz IV's having 36cm tracks. I think you should be safe with the 38's.

I believe the very early Pz.IVs used the 36cm tracks. I think i didn't explain my problem well enough though: Friul doesn't make any 38cm tracks, only 36 and 40cm, so I'm stuck with one of those (I really don't want to buy Modellkasten tracks for the same price because I really dislike building those and it simply isn't worth the effort and money IMO. I'll go with those though if there is no alternative...

The box of Friul's 36cm tracks (ATL-02) says they are for Pz. III and IVs and were in use from 1938 untill 1941:

The model I'm building with my kit depicts a machine used at Tobruk in April 1941 (turret number 411) if that is of any help...

No, you did explain yourself, it was my fault, I should have read it properly.

Its odd that they don't do 38cm tracks. I am just guessing here, but the 2cm difference in 35th is less that 1mm. I would think that the teeth on the sprockets will go in to the holes in the track. If not, it might just be a case of sanding some of the inside of each half of the sprocket, but it should be tiny.

Where did you read about the 36cm tracks.

I have been looking a bit further into this Clemens. I have yet to do an early pz IV so wasn't something I had studied much. there does seem to be some confusion. Some say the early tracks are 38cm other 36. One online forum suggested the 40cm tracks are referred to as 38cm because they don't include the track pins. But from what I can gather, there are only 2 sizes of track used. One size from the Ausf A to Ausf E, whether they be called 36 or 38 cm. And then the 40cm tracks from the Ausf F. Overall, I think you should be ok with the 36cm fruils.

Oh and I just looked at my kit again and remembered the initial reason why i was looking for replacement tracks: My kit doesn't have any tracks! I got it at the second hand corner of my LHs for a pretty decent price (30€ instead of the 55€ retail price) and the guy who sold it apparently used the tracks for something else...

Thanks for that info, mate! I'll go with the 36cm ones then. I don't know where i read about those 36cm tracks, but it was in a discussion I found during a google search on Pz.IVs. I was kinda confused by the three different track widths too because my book on the Pz.IV (recommended by a very good armor modeller at my LHS who really is into the technical aspects of the tanks he is building) only states one track width change AFAIK... The book's author is Spielberger (i think you have some of the english versions of his books)

Ye we do. But so far I only have the panther and pz III books from his German armour and military vehicles series, the Pz IV is the next one. My Osprey vanguard book on the Pz Iv only stats one width change, but that says from 38 to 40cm. But that could be a misprint.

I have his books on Heavy Tank Destroyers, Pz.IV and Tiger. They really are great books and I especially like the one on the Tiger because it doesn't only cover the Tiger itself, but also the whole development starting at the Durchbruchswagen 2.

Bish I got a perm for half vacation time, for the rest I could not find a return ferry ticket

Browsing through all photos of all the builds here, I declare truly amazed.

Mike who punished you to make all those super tiny bolts ?

I love the clean Tiger, Dan. Fresh our of factory revealing all its scary huge outline.

I finally managed to paint inner and outer faces of all the wheels. I made a (basically two) template(s) for this otherwise I think I would totally

Then the tank was given some dry brushing passes with white and sienna oils, in order to further fade and blend the camo colors. I do not intend to practically wipe out the demarcation of the two tones, as I have seen on many photos on the web. I shall suppose it is a quite new vehicle to the front and some weeks of desert sun has not yet faded everything out.

Finally I started cleaning the track links. Only Mars the god of war can now help me assemble them (or somebody could give some rough advice of how not to mess this up)

The first tank pic below is before the oils were applied just for comparison

All your comments and advice are welcomed.

Clemens, did you consider AFV Club's workable plastic PZ.IV track? It would have been a third the price of even one set of Friuls. I've not build a set yet, but I have built their T-34 set and while they are fragile, they do work and sag like the metal ones. Not sure of the size, though...

Zvezda -- your work on that palm-top Panzer is breathtaking! Oh, re the tiny boltheads, blame Tony Greenland, I'm replicating one of his builds from about 25 years ago!

I'm starting the etched rack today, let's hope I don't stuff up!

M/TB379

Clemens - Bish - Pz IV Question - saw the same website (http://panzerivuniverse.phelpscomputerservices.com/Specs-02.htm) Panzer IV Universe and noted the confusion regarding width size.  Several references note 38 cm (A-E) and 40 cm (F-H). Don't know if you noted my previous post that the Dragon Smart Kit (6779) has the wrong width road wheels (40 cm) - using the Tristar Panzer IV Road Wheel Set. Dragon Care has not gotten back on possible replacements. Armor86

Lack of progress report -- the rack in the Verlinden set was for the Pz. III and it's not a matter of simply modifying it, the Pz. IV is 10mm broader in the rear hull. Without having additional views to work with I'm no wiser as to what was done on the original, sooooo -- I think I'm back to the rack I was scratch building. At least now I know how this type of rack was probably attached on the real thing. I'll let you know how it goes!

M/TB379

Zvezda: Looking very nice!

Mike: I actually haven't tried the AFV tracks yet. While I love my Friuls, I'm not a huge fan of workable plastic tracks (except if I get them for free included in the kit ). The Modellkasten would be my backup solution if the 36cm Friuls don't fit my kit. I'll look into them for other projects though.

Dan: I did notice that in your post and immediately checked my Pz.IV kits. The kit I'm building has the neat extra of separate rubber rims for the roadwheels, so I took one of those out of the bag and compared it with a roadwheel from Dragon's J. The J's roadwheels are significantly wider so I think Dragon got it correct on their old Pz.IVs...

Great updates everyone!

Looking forward to them all as the deadline approaches.

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Schatt - you should be fine with the smaller size tracks.  From what I've read, the confusion likely was a result of British assessment of captured panzers, in which they only measured the track width and did not include the pins on either side. 

The link Dan provided has lots of info, and it gives both measurements with and without the pins.  Note though the measurement is expressed in millimeters.  I think the official nomenclature is like this  one for example:

Kgs. 6111/380/120

where the 380 (or 38cm) is the size.  Any ideas what the values on either side represent?

regards,

Jack

jack, the comment about the track pins is something I have come across elsewhere and would make sense.

As for the question about German track designation, I have often wondered that. One thought is that the last number is the size of each link front to back. The other could be the weight for each link in Kg's.60ish Kg's sounds about right for a track link.  But that's just a guess.

Thanks for that additional info, Jack!

I'm not sure what the firt number is supposed be, but the 3rd one is the length of the track links AFAIK. They are 380cm x 120cm in size.

Oh wow that's amazing Zvezda- how you guys build stuff that small continually amazes me- looks great so far!

Schattenspartan - yeah have the older Dragon Super Kits with 1000s of parts - 'Pz IV E', 'E Vorpanzer', Super 'D', and Tristar 'D'.  I did check out the rubber tires and they would fit the road wheel rims included in the Dragon Smart Kit 6779 - it has the right road wheel but no rubber O rings. A prior Smart Kit which uses the 40 cm size road wheels is also included in the kits and have the rubber  rims as one piece - yeah I have a ton of spare parts. Made a request to Dragon Care and have not heard back. Have assembled a storage rack on the back end using ever green. Armor86