World at War 1939-1940 Group Build

It's working out nicely, ajd.  That cockpit is more detailed than some 109E's I've seen, including the one I'll be building.

Nice start aj.

Thank you sir. Working in the cockpit alone has me searching ebay for more of these Hobbycraft 109s. I already had 3 others in the stash, and am now itching for an excuse to make them... I think the 109 bug has bitten another victim

Checkmate. I'd like to join in with a build of Tamiya's 1/35 German Field Kitchen - Diorama using both the Gulaschkanone horse drawn and Feldkuche in a rest area along a French road (May 1940). Use a couple additional figures and horses. Armor86 

Welcome to the GB, Dan; glad to have you with us.  This sounds like a very intriguing project!  I look forward to seeing it.

I've updated the front page.

I would like to enter in this work horse,

Revell 1/48 Junkers Ju 52/3M Transport.  There are markings for 1940.

O, nice a 52. Are you building it in the box markings or something else.

Welcome to the GB, Dan.  This will be a nice addition.  Glad to have you with us!

Front page is updated.

Greetings Everyone - Enclosed some photos of a couple kits I will be using. Tamiya kits Gulaschkanone - German Field Kitchen (with figure and two horses) - Keldkuche - Field Kitchen Scenery - Military Miniatures - Wehrmacht Mounted Infantry Set - using Horse only. Envision a French road side diorama with one field kitchen trailer detach and limber setup serving lunch/meal with some figures around it and a horse or two nearby. The other field kitchen will traveling along the road with driver - crew. Armor86

Looking for some information on German Uniforms during the 1940 time frame for support troops and infantry.

Dan, now that is uniquely different, and looking forward to it coming to life.

armor86

Looking for some information on German Uniforms during the 1940 time frame for support troops and infantry.

I'm not sure if you are inquiring for help, or just making a statement that you are in the process of researching German 1940 uniforms?  I've plenty books on the subject if you have any questions. 

Off the top of my head, the only thing I'm not sure of is what branch field kitchens would fall under.  If they are considered transport troops, then their waffenfarben would be light blue.

regards,

Jack

Looks like a very well-engineered kit, ajd.  Well-done!

You've certainly got a lot ahead of you, Dan; look at the parts in those boxes!  Looking forward to seeing this come together!

Armor thats a great thought, I'd be interested in how you paint the horses, thats something thats not done here often. The Tamiya kits will make it a nice build. Terry

Dan, that's certainly an interesting looking build you. I am also keen to se on how you do the horses.

The uniforms themselves are pretty simple, the insignia is also pretty standard but as jack says, the main question would be the waffenfarben.

Jack, if the guys manning the kitchen were a par of the Infantry unit, would they not have white. Support elements within a unit are one area that confuses me so I am just guessing here.

I think that the waffenfarben for the cooks would be light blue falling under supply, but I'm not an expert by any stretch.

There are some choices to make concerning German uniforms of 1940, as there were changes incorporated at this time.  

Up until early 1940, the trousers were made of stone grey (steingrau) material, with no hint of green in them.  Since all soldiers were issued four pairs (a source quotes about 15 million were produced by the time Poland was invaded), they would still be in use for quite some time.

May 1940, an order was passed that ceased production of tunics with the bluish-dark green collars and shoulder straps.  Officers and NCOs preferred the smart look of the older style, and would often continue to wear the green collar.  

M36 tunic: 

M40 tunic:

regards,

Jack

Interesting info jack. I have never heard of the 1940 order and the main book I have for German uniforms says field grey for the trousers. I think I might need to update my library.

Again, the question on the piping colour on cooks is a good one.  Would have to find out which branch provides the cooks, if they are the same ones that are in charge of transporting the goods, then certainly the light blue.  If they are just regular infantry, and take turns preparing meals for the unit, then they would be white, but I don't know.

regards,

Jack

Jack, I'm thinking the group would be an Infantry company - regiment. The men will not be motorize and will be on foot. Looking over what I have a couple different (Dragon Figure sets) France 1940 infantry and armor troops (Ghost Division Tank crew Blitzrieg 1940 - 6654 and Blitzkrieg in the West - 6347) The pants of the infantry figures are brown while the coats-shirts are grey - green color. The Tamiya kit with all the figures are pea green with cooks have golden brown trousers and dark green-grey shirts with white. I'm not sure if that correct or different time period. The Dragon kits call out the following color codes which I don't use or have access around here (Illinois). MM 2036 - GSI - Hobby Color 32/40 and MM 1479 GSI - Hobby Color 80 - 54.  Other colors from 6347 have call out Green-Gray MM1735 - GSI - Hobby Color 37 - 43 for both shirts and trousers. Another figure has Grey-Green shirt and Grey trousers. I'm using Vallejo Model Colors mostly. Armor86

hello Dan,  

i  looked at the artwork for all those kit boxes you mentioned.  I see  some pants are field grey and a few are the stone grey type, which is to be expected during the French campaign.  The only brown pair I see is the Tamiya kit with the chef wearing an apron.  I also can't find any literature that describes the issue of brown coloured pants to the regular army.  Maybe the box art is portraying lower quality of field grey later in the war?

Interestingly, there is an addendum section in the Vol.3 of my copy of Uniforms and Traditions of the German Army 1933-45.  An entry states the Todt Organiztion used white as the branch color for food supply, and they did wear an olive brown uniform.

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As far as shirt colours go, this is the run down for the Wehrmacht:

April 1, 1933 - white shirt without collar, not meant to be worn without tunic.  Shirts with collars were introduced once it was realized the type was required for wear in warm climates.

1941 - reed green shirt replaced the white.   Mid 1942, two chest pockets were added (with and without pleats) including buttoned flaps.

June 23 1943 - grey-green shirt introduced as above, but no pleats on pockets.
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From what I further read on the field kitchens, seems there was one unit attached to each company (ideally?).  The mess sergeant was called Feldkochunteroffizier.

The waffenfarbe still has me trumped, just can't find anything in b/w print that states who provided the chefs and helpers.  Photos look to be the regular issue Heer uniforms:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/german/Gulaschkanone%23.html

regards,

Jack

Jack & Dan,

From my limited research, I believe that the kitchen staff waffenfarbe was that of the parent unit, ie. Cooks in an infantry abt/regt were white, those in panzer abt/regt were rose pink, pioniere cooks were black etc.

Thanks Greg.

That does seem to be the answer over at the AxisHistory forum as well.

This photo of a Luftwaffe field kitchen on a train confirms that line of thought, cooks are wearing the uniform of their parent unit.

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/57114/12108707

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Switching things up,  for anyone building the newer Airfix Hurricane in 1/72, there are a couple new decal sets dedicated to the fabric wing, found at Hannants:

regards,

Jack

Thanks Jack & Greg on information regarding kitchen cooks uniform waffenfarbe - Armor86

Yup, that's a Messerschmitt, ajd.  Looks good.  

Thanks for the information on Hurricane decals, Jack.  I'll probably pick up a sheet next time I order from Hannants..

Well I found I found a flaw in the Hobbycraft kit. Either the struts for the horizontal stabilizers are WAY too long, or the holes for the struts are in the wrong spot. They are almost at a 20 degree incline. Need to straighten that out.

Hi! And greetings from Finland!

This GB sounds temptating. Very interesting subjects you have found. Nice work everyone!

Have to try to find time to attend. And suitable kit.

Few weeks ago I was talking with my dad about start of WW2. He said, that he can clearly remember that day. He was tending cows at range and day was very warm and sun was shining. He couldn´t remember how he heard, that German had attacked to Poland. Did someone came to tell? Did he heard at home? Or did he heard that when they went to neighbor to listen news from radio. Yes, those days everyone didn´t have radio. My dad was seven then. Still he remember that day.

16. of October 1939 my uncle got this letter:

Commandment

to accede special rehearsal of reserve.

Jäger Oiva Ilmari Komulainen Fransinpoika (son of Frans)

Rank of reservist and complete name

Sukeva, Järvenpää

Address

Leaning on 2 clause of 7§ of law of liability to military service and application of decree 3 clause of 104§ of law of liability to military service, have Ministery of defence command You to call to special rehearsal of reserve, and You have to at last NEXT TRAIN hours after, when You have receive this commandment to set forth shortest way to KUOPIO (nearest city) where You have to report to CADRE OF MILITARY COURT, UNLESS OTHERWISE IS ASSESSED

Commander of cadre

This commandment must be expressed at point of departure to get stamped, and when it is stamped it is valid as ticket in 3. class.

Point of departure: Sukeva

Destination: Kuopio

Note! This commandment is not to be assigned to conductor.

Notifications.

Reservist shall take with him to rehearsal his military pasport and if possible following accessories:

proper boots, "pieksut" (another kind of boots) or other piece of footwear suitable for outdoor abode, two sets of underwear, two pair of socks, woolen sweater, rucksack, towel, military style or other outfit suitable for outdoor abode, hunting knife, needle and thread, tin dish and cup, in wintertime skies with ski poles and, if in possession of reservist is, military rifle, pistol or revolver with cartridges as well as binocular and compass......

Reservist belonging to Finnish White Guard must arrive in full accessory.

Mileage is given to reservist when he arrives to duty.

Reservist, who haven´t arrive in set period of time, is going to be punished by military criminal-law and after he have beared his sentence he is called particularly to rehearsal.

He was then 24.

When they arrived to Kuopio they got cockade and rifle with cartridges.

Their uniform was called "Malli Cajander", Model Cajander: http://www.ww2incolor.com/finnish_forces/Malli+Cajander.html  Cajander was finnish prime minister in 1939.

Army tryed to deliver as soon as they could snow suits to all soldiers.

Still 44 days of peace left in Finland.

30. of November 1939 Russians attacked to Finland

I found his carrick from my grand parents attic:

You can see stitchings here on the left sleeve:

He got hit to his elbow in February 1940. He was in hospital and convalescence to the end of Winter War.

Because Finland didn´t have specific medal for wounded all who got wounded got second class Medal Of Freedom.

(Now this goes even more off topic, sorry)

When war continued in June 1941 he was called to arms again.

Then he was as battle courier.

In August their group walked to mine field. They were hit by "jumping mine". My uncle got hit by 53 shrapnel.

I can´t find any markings that was he at hospital or not. Probably not.

Again he got second class Medal Of Freedom.

At same time, or atleast almost same time he got also first class Medal Of Freedom. We don´t know why he got it. He never told.

He also belonged to local battlefront entertainment group. Singing and playing. Keeping morale high! They were once even in nation wide radio.

In october 1942 he got hit his last time. "Shrapnels to stomach, stomach open" was written to offical papers.

I tryed to find more information, but in battle diary he was only marked as fallen. R.I.P.

As I have understood he was very special and important person to my father.

From left to right:

Fourth class Cross Of Freedom with swords and ribbon of woe (given after death)

First second class Medal Of Freedom

Second second class Medal Of Freedom

First class Medal Of Freedom

(Up right) Memorial Medal of Winter War

(Up) Ribbons of Medals Of Freedom

Sorry this off topic.

Trabi, that's some amazing personal family history there, thank you very much for sharing that. A Winter war would be a great addition, I think that's a conflict that's often over looked.

Thanks, Trabi.  That is great personal history.  It really hits home how close the war still is, and how it affected people's lives.  Glad you posted it here.

We'll be happy to have you in the GB, and a Finnish-Winter War project would be very much welcome.  I will add you to the front page, and you can let us know when you decide what you want to do.