The official Submarine Warfare Group Build 2016 - 2017

Good to hear they got back to you, and as Steve says, the guns can always goon later.

Yes I thought about that and setting the gun part aside to see what they look like once I receive them. There's a few things I need to the hull to make it correct.

I have made another discovery regarding the WEM pe sheet. I noticed a particular part, #20 listed as "Alternate Upper Framework Rear Brace". This part is found in the updated and last refit that was done to the Gato on November 1944. Most of the parts are there for both the refits of 1943 and 1944 but nothing is said in the instructions. I for one wanted to make the 1944 refit version but the instructions only cover the earlier refit. Some modifications and relocation of parts need to be made for the later version. As it is, the instructions are a bit vague about listing some of the parts as "alternate".

You are definitely in 1944. The Mod 4 fair water shows up in photos of Gato 11/44 at Mare Island. That's the way cutdown bridge with the "covered wagon hoops".

Photos of her in August 1943 at MI show her as a Mod 3, with those covered up. In that one the deck gun is forward but still a 3".

Bill

Gm

I kept looking at those very same pictures and never noticed till today and you are right. The instructions show to cut off 5mm but the periscope arraingement is the 43 stile and the fairwater is the 44 refit. Got it fixed earlier today and will post pictures when I get home.

Thanks for catching my boo boo.

Thank God I saved the parts I sliced off so they were Tenaxed on and some PPP was used to blend in the seams. Now it has the 43 fairwater. The tower frame is just set in place and not glued.

Would you know GM if the sides of the lookout deck extended to both sides closing them off?  I know the bridge was uncovered.

That is some superior PE work PJ.

Yes indeed!

i keep putting of starting mine because we are still moving in. Lucky I am going as built Mod 1. Still a couple of details to change but nowhere near the later amount like yours.

i don't know the answer to your question.

I wonder about that hatch onto the forward platform. Look at the earlier photo above. I can't tell.

Great work.

In Squadron's Gato in action, page 14, there is a pic of Gato at Mare Island on Aug 8, 1943 showing the lookout platforms solid with the fairwater sides.  The hatch in the fairwater to the front gun platform would be for access from the bridge hatch to the foward gun platform.  Shown open in the pic.

Just below that pic is one of Dorado (SS248), also Aug. '43 with the same structure, but shown from aft.

Thanks to GH who was so helpful in sending me a couple of pictures showing the lookout platform up to the fairwater walls. I actually found the book on Ebay for $10 with free shipping, Squadron did not have it on sale and I kick myself cause I almost bought it for $1.99 the last time. It will come in handy cause I eventually want to build another Gato class sub in the late War configuration. The Revell 1/72 Gato looks very tempting but it is HUGE, that's why I went with the 1/144 one.

The Riich 1/200 boat has some really nice details including excellently detailed guns and pe sheet but they would be again the 1943 configuration with the 3"/50 gun.

I added plastic card to the sides of the platform and once I have the inside of the fairwater painted, then I will glue in place the tower frame and sand flush the platform to the side walls. I do believe I got it this time thanks to GM and GH! Cheers fellas!

I have spent more time working on this conning tower than what I usually spend building and OOB kit.

Ahhhhhh, come on, only twice the length of the one you have, but 4'-4" still takes up a lot of shelf space.  On the up side, the PE is twice as big too.  Then you have the deck plate PE and tower PE in addition to the shears PE.   Can also get brass props for her.  I went whole hog on mine.  The deck plates are going to be a pain as you have to cut out all the deck detail on the kit parts, and put in 2x2mm styrene cross braces, ala what MC did on his Puffer launch build.

Looking good with the fixes.

I remember seeing the 1/72 Gato at HL a while back for $53 with the 40% coupon and left it there.

Your HL must be way more stocked than ours.

Hey guys,

Sitting in my hotel room on a business trip, something has been perplexing me for a while about the Trumpeter 1/144 Gato kit.

The sail/ fairwater.

The two "familes" of Gatos were the commercial boats, from Electric Boat and Manitowoc yards, and the government boats, from Mare Island and Portsmouth.

While very similar, there are clear differences. Chief among those are the limber holes, and the sails.

I'm no Gato expert, but reading identifies some basic spotting features to differentiate the two basic types of sails.

EB boats had a graceful curve in the transition of the top of the fairwater side from the open lookout deck aft down to the cigarette deck. MI boats had a sharp 45 degree transition. Later that all disappeared along with the sheet metal.

Here's Gato, an EB boat:

Here's Trigger, a MI boat:

Second, the EB boats have an inward slope on the sides as the fairwater rises above the top of the conning tower inside, then go straight up. The MI boats just go more or less straight up.

Here's Gato again:

Here's Wahoo, a MI boat:

And third, the EB boats have a shorter length of fairwater, with a round aft end. The MI boats look to me to have a consistent faired aft end that comes to a point.

Here's SS 262 Muskallunge, an EB boat:

Compared to Wahoo above.

 All photos above are from Navsource.

I plan to build the 1941 Trumpeter kit as Trigger, a MI boat on eternal patrol. The galloping Ghost of the Japanese Coast. But, the kit is a EB boat. Here's what the fairwater looks like (not my build):

Well, from the looks of it there's more similarity to MI per items two and three above.

And here's the 1944 kit fairwater (again not my kit) built up:

I see item three, the rounded end, but maybe the sides look a little more MI?

I really wish I could find the Floating Drydock Gato plan book, and I'm also really eager to hear what you all think. This may turn out easier than I thought, a MI boat in 1942 from the ealier gato kit.

GM,

Good eye. The 41 kit does look like an EB so for the Trigger, a MI boat it looks like all you need to do is change the fairing fore of the fairweather just a tad to more of an angle. Sure makes it hard when the builders added their own flare.

Fortunately when I was building the Puffer, I didn't worry too much about the supper detailing. She was still in production and so many things changed during her build that it's almost impossible to pin down exactly what was installed during her journey down the ways. But I went with what I could find.

Incase someone didn't get to see it.

Can't speak to the'41 kit, but the '44 has straight fairwater sides, rounded cig deck, and the back of the fairwater is a 90* angle where it drops to the cig deck. 

On the AFV 1/350's, one of them has the rounded cig deck, and one the more pointed MI version, but can' remember which one is which.  Also the limber holes are different in the two versions, reflecting the MI and EB versions.

Ahh the joy of accuracy in model building sometimes will drive us nuts. As a side note, the Trumpeter box art for the '44 Gato is completely different to what's in the box. Even the artwork is wrong by having the incorrect limber holes, deck gun and periscope tower arrangement.

GM I think you will have an easier task doing yours than all the issues with mine.

PJ, funny you'd point that out. I am looking at the 1941 box art and it's not the same as the kit. The box painting shows her in Mod 2, with the fairwater around the cigarette deck removed and replaced with stanchions and rails, as well as stanchions and rails around the upper lookout. Which is bogus for the cigarette deck- Mod 2 had cables and stanchions.

But the kit is a straight Mod 1- the original high silhouette.

Such is life.

GM posted this picture that shows Gato in the same time period that I'm modeling mine. As to the color, looks like she's black all over, Measure 9? 

GMorrison

PJ, funny you'd point that out. I am looking at the 1941 box art and it's not the same as the kit. The box painting shows her in Mod 2, with the fairwater around the cigarette deck removed and replaced with stanchions and rails, as well as stanchions and rails around the upper lookout. Which is bogus for the cigarette deck- Mod 2 had cables and stanchions.

But the kit is a straight Mod 1- the original high silhouette.

Such is life.

 

GM, looking at the picture you posted brings up a boo boo by Trumpeter.

There is another error to be corrected on the fairwater on mine. The cigarette deck is the correct one for the 1944 refit, having the enlarged circular extension for the Bofors gun but not correct for the 20mm.  The rest of the fairwater is the 1943 refit stile!

I need to remove the circular extension to have the correct stile for the 20mm mount. I also have to drill vent holes all along the deck edge.

Yes the vent holes are strangely absent along the superstructure.

Nautilus sells a series of stencils for both the limber or vent holes up top along the bow and the superstructure for both EB and Naval shipyard patterns. 

And, the flood vents all along the bottom. Big round open holes.

For whatever reason the actual patterns are on their website. I printed them and reduced to scale.

Funny about mentioning about the bottom flood holes as I was figuring out the same thing and was comparing the patterns from the Nautilus site.

Here I have the locations marked as per the Nautilus info.

Next will be the marking and drilling of the holes.

Here is the later cigarette deck circular extension added in the Sept. 44 re fit and not correct for my 43 version.

I need to carefully remove the sides and re form the brass railings to a tighter radius so that will be coming up soon. I'm waiting for my Gato Subs in Action book to arrive before I do any further surgery just to double check and be safe.

I will look for the cig deck detail for you also. The several photos I've looked at, Mod 2 in 1942, look to have stanchions and cables, not pipe railings, at the 20 mm up there.

GMorrison

I will look for the cig deck detail for you also. The several photos I've looked at, Mod 2 in 1942, look to have stanchions and cables, not pipe railings, at the 20 mm up there.

 

Thanks GM!

PJ, take another look at the 8/43 pic I sent.  It shows a circular cig deck, but not sure if the dimensions are the same as the kit.  Also shows pipe railing on the front fairwater deck, and looks like cable on the cig deck aft, though some of what is seen is the antenna and insulators.

goldhammer

PJ, take another look at the 8/43 pic I sent.  It shows a circular cig deck, but not sure if the dimensions are the same as the kit.  Also shows pipe railing on the front fairwater deck, and looks like cable on the cig deck aft, though some of what is seen is the antenna and insulators.

 

I zoomed 400% and looks like there is that circular section there so looks correct for the 43 re fit then. I was getting ready to slice them off then the little voice in my head said NO!!!. Verify first, wait for the book then check again. Thanks again GH!

Well looks like the more I dig the more missing details I keep discovering missing from the model.

All the bottom drainholes are missing and need to be drilled out. I found the correct Early Gato pattern on the Nautilus site just like GM did. In the picture you can see the hull weld lines numbered where the flood holes will be marked and drilled out.

There is a line of small circular holes missing from the deck edge along the length of the boat. I made a template/jig and used a Sharpie to mark the the locations.

Used a piece of masking tape to keep the holes nice and stright 

The holes were drilled with a hand held pin vise, all 173 of them. The other side needs the same treatment. I also thinned the plastic where the flood holes are to make the thickness more to scale.  

The conning tower lookaout deck was finally trimmed to shape and still needs the railings and several other tiny pe parts.

That's a lot of work PJ. It will be a fine looking build when your done.

Hi MC,

That;s the first time I've seen your model sliding down the slipway. It's amazing. 

Cheers

Tony

Thanks Steve

I'vwe had my Hobbyboss 1/350 Type IXB U-Boat back on the bench. Sorry guys, i had asked you to scratch this from the roster but it's found it's way back to the forefront. I've done a bit more construction.

Cheers

Tony