75th Anniversary of 1942 (World at War)

Very innovative, creative and imaginative, Jack.  This will really be a work of art in development, and well worth watching.

I'll update the build roster right away.

What a cool build Jack, and a very beautiful lady as well.

Thanks Dwayne, I'm glad you're liking this 109. It's really a shame that we lost the Gunze Acrylics here in the US due to labeling issues. For airbrushing, they are the best. 

My memory of the labeling issue was a little different. What constitutes an acrylic is a matter of definition and written in stone. Tamiya and Gunze (then Mr. Hobby Color) both reformulated their "acrylic" paints about maybe 10 years ago. Their original paints had water, but a lot of stuff like glycol ethers and alcohol. What was not prominent on either label of the new paints which went to a heavier solvent base were the terms "Toxic" and "Flammable." In a world where schools use acrylic paints and tell the parents that they're non toxic and non flammable (true - the only real danger from Vallejo, Lifecolor, Aquacolor or my Goldens is inhaling atomized polymer and pigments - you could drink the junk, and no water diluted polymers don't burn.) So for a while Tamiya and Gunze stuff was kept off at least the US market until it was clearly printed that it was toxic and flammable. What I remember is people have fits over missing A-20. Figure. Just for kicks I gave a quick spray onto card with Hobby Color Panzergrau. It reminds me of Model Master or Polyscale: not bad by any means. And maybe okay for hand brushing. But I'd say the new stuff especially when cut with Mr. Levelling Thinner beats it soundly as an airbrush paint. When we quibble about paints, the biggest variable is what you're used to and what you're good with. You probably have a good hand with the brush and could get good results with any paint in good shape. But I can certainly see why both Tamiya and Gunze stuck with their new formula paints - they're great with the airbrush. That's why some people love Model Master and some hate it: I don't think anyone hates Tamiya or Gunze.

I've been going through megatons of knocked out tank pics. And they vary from showing almost no damage - (maybe the vehicle was actually abandoned) to blown to pieces and utterly burned out. But one scene is common no matter what therater or tank type: one side has much or all of the tracks either missing or run out and many wheels missing or bent, and the whole tanks is leaning notably toward the damaged side. The damage is very obvious but the tank generally intact - the other side may be undamaged. What I can't figure out is what happened in that situation. There are usually very clear signs of some fire. I wonder if a round might have penetrated the lower hull and ignited some of the ammo causing an explosion which would have knocked the wheels outward from the tank. But if so, why wouldn't the explosion been general and tank in pieces? If a round struck the wheels it could knock one or two of them inward and cause the tracks to unravel if the tank traveled a couple of yards. If the track on a tank came off, could that cause the drive wheels to crack off the axel? But I don't see that kind of damage causing most of the roadwheels to be knocked off and maybe the drive wheels/idlers be knocked off their axel causing the sag. Perhaps it's impossible to tell. But it would help if I had some idea whether the explosion was coming from inside the tank and out or the opposite.

One thing is for sure - if I don't want to I don't have to spend time on tools. If there were survivors or infantry I'd suppose they'd strip the wheels and anthing else of value. Many pics were taken days after the action and you can bet souvenier hunters picked them clean.

Eric

Thank you Bish, Check, Steve and Andy.

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Eric, very interesting topic discussions.

As far acrylic paints go, you can't get immediate death from eating them, but certain colours, depending on the brand(?)  do contain toxic metals that can build up over time creating health issues.

Highly Toxic Pigments

• antimony white (antimony trioxide)
• barium yellow (barium chromate)
• burnt or raw umber (iron oxides, manganese silicates or dioxide)
• cadmium red, orange or yellow (cadmium sulfide, cadmium selenide)
• chrome green (Prussian blue, lead chromate)
• chrome orange (lead carbonate)
• chrome yellow (lead chromate)
• cobalt violet (cobalt arsenate or cobalt phosphate)
• cobalt yellow (potassium cobalt nitrate)
• lead or flake white (lead carbonate)
• lithol red (sodium, barium and calcium salts of azo pigments)
• manganese violet (manganese ammonium pyrophosphate)
• molybdate orange (lead chromate, lead molybdate, lead sulfate)
• naples yellow (lead antimonate)
• strontium yellow (strontium chromate)
• vermilion (mercuric sulfide)
• zinc sulfide
• zinc yellow (zinc chromate)

Moderately Toxic Pigments

• alizarin crimson
• carbon black
• cerulean blue (cobalt stannate)
• cobalt blue (cobalt stannate)
• cobalt green (calcined cobalt, zinc and aluminum oxides)
• chromium oxide green (chromic oxide)
• Phthalo blue and greens (copper phthalocyanine)
• manganese blue (barium manganate, barium sulfate)
• Prussian blue (ferric ferrocyanide)
• toluidine red and yellow (insoluble azo pigment)
• viridian (hydrated chromic oxide)
• zinc white (zinc oxide)

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About destroyed tanks, I think the reason they aren't crumpled into pieces is the same idea of what happens when hit with an AP shell from the outside - it just creates a hole, and what it hits after penetration is what seals the fate of the vehicle.  Hits a fuel reservoir, obviously starts a fire.  Hits on stored ammo, here I'm not sure but is all ammo hot inside, ie. ready to use or are the charges kept separate?  If AP does go off inside, maybe it doesn't have the velocity to do critcal damage to the metal, unlike it would to the occupants?

regards,

Jack

Eric, let's just say that I prefer the Gunze Aqueous paints to their stuff now. I don't give a rats rump about the labeling myself. Part is a cost issue, part is cleaning and thinning, and part is a performance issue. I don't hate the stuff here now, I just like the other line better. 

 

Decals are on!!!! YES!!!!

 

The only kit decals that I used were the stencils. The kit decals had yellowed a bit, so I used national insignia from some sheets by Almark. Beautiful very thin decals, but on a single carrier sheet. You have to trim away all the excess film. They also provided stencils for the drop tank. The aircraft markings are from the Aeromaster set "Wings Over the Sahara"

 

Overall top and bottom

 

 

 

Tail and nose unit and aircraft marks and stencils

 

 

 

 

More tomorrow....

 

jgeratic

About destroyed tanks, I think the reason they aren't crumpled into pieces is the same idea of what happens when hit with an AP shell from the outside - it just creates a hole, and what it hits after penetration is what seals the fate of the vehicle.  Hits a fuel reservoir, obviously starts a fire.  Hits on stored ammo, here I'm not sure but is all ammo hot inside, ie. ready to use or are the charges kept separate?  If AP does go off inside, maybe it doesn't have the velocity to do critcal damage to the metal, unlike it would to the occupants?

regards,

Jack

 

Part of the secondary effects depend upon the projectile. WWII era solid shot AP depends upon spall effect and hitting any thing inside such as fuel or ammunition to cause injuries or damage mostly. AP ammo that has an explosive filler can explode inside and amplify the chances of that happening, as well as causing blast damage to equipment and crew within the confined space. HEAT rounds that burn thru the armor via a jet of molten metal have more chance of starting a fire on any flammable items within the path of the jet, in addition to their other effects.

Most ammunition inside tanks is single piece rounds. This speeds up loading. Only certain vehicles carrying howitzer type main guns,  where the charge and projectile are separate have to contend with that issue. And the root cause of most tanks you see blown open is main gun ammunition explosion. Fuel tanks, once ruptured and ignited will burn and feed the fire, but not explode so catastrophicly. The expansion rate and power of ignited ammunition propellant as opposed to ignited fuel liquids or vapors are different.

Beautiful work, stik.  Paint and decals are outstanding.

And thanks for the information, Jack, Eric and stik.  Very useful and informative.

Thanks much Bish. I'd considered the ammunition issue - try to figure out what was available to the Rooskies in 1942. (The forensics are actually interesting, and a little scary. Some dead tanks are riddled with holes - like swiss cheese - mostly on the turret sides. Others only show a area of general destruction. And, as I understand it, a very high % of lost tanks were mechanical breakdowns - one reason to fight like crazy to hold contested ground was that it allowed the removal and repair of damaged vehicles.

Already stumbled on a neat factoid on this subject. The term "RPG" did not originally come from "Rocket Propelled Grenade", but rather is an acronym for the Russian name for a "hand held anti-tank grenade." The first rendition, the RPG-40, had a high explosive charge and could damge 20mm of armor or so if it struck the armor - good enough to destroy or knock out Panzer I & IIs which was half the tank force of the Wehrmacht in 41. The second generation of this weapon, the RPG 43 - carried a HEAT charge and could damage a big tank if thrown so the warhead hit at a 90 degree angle and got its full effect. This one was deployed in 1943. Think of those Ferdinands at Kursk sent out in front of the infantry to create break-through point: ouch. (The Japanese too often relied upon hand held anti-tank weapons: hats off to a soldier cool enough to chuck something at a tank from 50 feet or so.) The Wehrmacht figured the Soviets would build a bigger one and assumed it would somehow stick, because they had developed a hand held "sticky" shaped charge grenade. To counter it, they deployed Zimmerit. But the Rooskies never made a "sticky" grenade, nor did the Western allies - so German tanks were safe from a weapon only possessed by Germans and rarely used by them because the Panzerfaust made it pointless. Armies are armies. The Soviet RPG-2 - the first widely used Russian propelled grenade - was deployed in 1949. 

Eric

Thanks check. The information is useful for armor modelers and folks who play Jeopardy and/or Trivial Pursuit... maybe...

Eric, i think you mean jack, he was he who provided all that info.

Didn't realise that was the origine of the RPG.

Jack, you're certainly right about pigments. But the real reason to wear a mask (which I often forget to do) is to keep from breathing the atomized pigments/agents. But, unless you ate them daily, I think the immune system could handle it. Zinc is the one I stay away from if possible. Solvent based paints, however, don't cause long term problems - they could screw you up in an instant. In the real world, I don't know how many adults would get paint close to an open flame, or wash their mouth with it. I have wondered if there was some kind of dye to put into ISP or lacquer thinner that would make it look different from water - I've often got both in a pallet. And someone not aware of what was on my desk I suppose could do something dumb. Stik: everyone to his own poison. You make good models and are obviously have a good hand with the brush. I'm sure you could make any brand you've used work nicely. I'd still recommend the new stuff to a beginner - and tell them to use Mr. Leveling thinner with it. I don't use solvent paints often, but realize I give up some real advantages when I use Golden or Vallejo. Eric

Funny you mention drinking solvents. I repurposed a small bottle of Patron for holding lacquer thinner. The cork has an airtight seal that is impervious to the fumes so far, unlike other jars that I have tried with various seals. I was worried that somebody may mistake that bottle for actual silver/white tequila. But the other day when I used it to clean my airbrush cleaning brushes, that worry went away... 

and thank you for the compliments on my painting. With enough time and practice, I can get a handle on most any paint that I've used so far. But I like to go with tried and true for best results more rapidly. There is always another way...

Stik, nice looking colours and  paint coverage on that Afrikan bird.

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Guys, great convo/info here, so thanks for that.
I was wondering about what scenario would cause roadwheels to be thrown off - could be a land mine, or possible adjacent artillery shell hit?

Eric, you presented a good point about wearing a mask when spraying acrylics, as many people think only strong fumes are associated with harmeful effects of paint on the lungs.

regards,
Jack

Interesting discussions

Stik, that 109 is looking GREAT!  I really do like the paint you are using, and can see why you like it.  The results are excellent.

As is to be expected, we all have our favorites...paints, tools, etc.  I absolutely love my Badger Patriot.  So far, the best results I have had is with that AB and Tamiya acrylics. Going to try the Mission Model paints on the T-34 when I am ready to go.  Very good reviews.  We'll see if that becomes my new go to paint.

Found an error on my Tamiya T-34.  The gun breech fits into a part that connects to the turret.  It only goes one way, and I thought "excellent, idiot proof".  That was until I dry fitted the assemby and realized the breech was upside down.  Looked it over several times, and it was definitely a kit error.  A little surprised that Tamiya would make this error, but it is a discontinued kit.  Easy enough fix, though, so no harm, no foul.

Have fun,

D

Jack, a whole row or side worth of roadwheels off has to be the work of a salvage crew stripping the hulk of usable parts. A mine or other ordnance big enough to do that much damage, will also do significant damage to the hull. Basic AT mines are usually man portable, so not too large or heavy. They will break the track and damage or destroy a road wheel or two. Of course on soft skins the same mine will have far more devastating effect. But tanks are built pretty sturdy.

Dwayne, I have built several of those Tamiya T-34s and never paid any attention to the breech issue. I just followed the directions and paid it no mind... lol! But then once crew figures are in place in the hatches, you don't see it anyways. 

Thanks for the kind words on my 109. I'm all jazzed about how it's looking now.

jgeratic

Stik, nice looking colours and  paint coverage on that Afrikan bird.

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Guys, great convo/info here, so thanks for that.
I was wondering about what scenario would cause roadwheels to be thrown off - could be a land mine, or possible adjacent artillery shell hit?

Eric, you presented a good point about wearing a mask when spraying acrylics, as many people think only strong fumes are associated with harmeful effects of paint on the lungs.

regards,
Jack

 

We once had a Warrior taken out by an IED placed under the road. It blew a hole in the bottom of the hull under the turret and the blast was big enough to throw the gunner out of the turret and killed 4 more in the back. The vehicle only lost a couple of road wheels complete with axel arms.

And going back to what you mentioned in an earlier post about the fuel tanks, the blast went right through that without causeing a fire.

As Stik mentions, a single mine would damage one or two road wheels. Thats unless they do the same trick that was done in Bosnia which was to stack AT mines on top of each other.

Great to see the decals on Stik, she is looking very nice.

Time to call this done. Firstly, the finished figures.

Overall, i am really pleased with how these turned out apart from the faces. I still need to work on that area. Going to dig out some old figures and practice some different techniques.

After painting, the Infantry figures got a wash of raw umber which was not left on to long before removing escess. I then used some pigmenst to dirty them up a bit. The water in the jug was done with woodland scenice realistic water put inot the jug and water effects used to make the water being poured out.

The tank crew was done with Humbrol enamels. They got less dirt added though the commander was made a bit more dusty than the other two. The shaving foam on the kneeling figures was again water effects painting with a very thin white.

And then everything was added to the base to finish it off. There was one last minute hitch. I realised last night i had forgotten to add the periscopes to the turret, which of course is now glued in place. So, what to do. Easy, take them out and lay them on top waiting to be cleaned.

For the map on the table i had to find one online, reduce it and print it out. I have some i bought on really thin paper, but all the maps you can buy are more for army or corps command's then a company level unit. The one i found was a period German map of South Stalingrad. The north of the city would have been better, but had to make due.

And there it is. Thanks for hosting this again check. Already have my build planned for next year, another armour one. Until then, i'll keep checking in to see what the rest of you are doing.

Lovely Dio Bish. If those guys are looking at a map and it's 1942, they might not like what they're looking at. Eric

Thanks Eric. And how right you are. If only they knew what was coming.

Great work, Bish.  It's an outstanding work of craftsmanship; and provides a lot of points of interest.  Really draws the eye into the action.

Thanks for being part of the GB.  It's always a pleasure to see what you come up with--and how you come up with it.

Do you have a particular favorite for the front page?

That's a nasty surprise with the breech, Dwayne.  I hate it when the manufacturers get something wrong like that.  I'm glad it was fixable.

 

Thanks check, much appreciated.

I will leave it to you. I realised as i was taking the pics that having everything in the building doesn't make it easy to get good photo's of.

Hi Bish,  great looking dio!   

Lot of rubble, but enough structures still standing to provide cover.  I like all the figures, but particularly the one carrying the fuel can, as he makes the viewer return back to the center of the scene.

regards,

Jack

Done, Bish.  I used one that shows the label as well as all the action going on.  Thanks again for your participation!

Beautiful finish Bish! That is a sharp looking diorama! The tank, the figures, the ruins, all come together just right! Excellent job! 

 

Well last nite after work and first thing this morning was a crash program to get this Friedrich done. Why? Because a local shop was sponsoring a contest, an Airfix Aeroplanes contest to be precise. And I completed this. It shows signs of rushed work, compared to most of my builds. Deadlines are the bane of quality builds!

 

But here it is at the time of completion

 

 

and I did take Third Place in the 1/48 Single Seat, Single Engine Propellor category... not too bad... first and second place were some of the new tool kits, so I feel decent about holding my own against those...

 

 

I'll get proper photos up tomorrow. I have a family gathering this evening.

 

Congratulations, stik!  A work well done.