Lov’n all this BB talk! One day I want to build the North Carolina. Got me back into ship mode today. Possibly ready to prime and paint the deck and superstructure tomorrow. Decided to place the ladders and hatches at the least before painting. I covered all the places on the brass where deck fittings and mounts will go so there will be a good metal surface for glue later on.

GMorrison

When the Iowas were decommissioned for the last time in 1991, metal covers were welded at the bases of the 16" and 5" guns. The New Jersey had those removed from the 16" rifles in about 2001. That in itself is quite a story as the removal, grinding, repair and installation of the "Bucklers", which are heavy, had to be done with pure human power- no dockside m cranes!

That is really interesting, Bill. I'd love to hear more. I am amazed that you guys know all this stuff.

What is the backstory on why they added metal covers? Do you know? It almost seems like they are protecting the guns for a just in case they'd need to recommission the ship?

GMorrison

Interesting question, are you modeling the ship in her last operational state of post-decommissioning?

My goal is to build her in last operational state, just prior to decommissioning. My question spawned from making sure I understand correctly how those guns are staged while at sea.

You guys are an awesome resource and it sure makes this thread a learning experience.  

Instesting info GM  Love it!

When the Iowas were decommissioned for the last time in 1991, metal covers were welded at the bases of the 16" and 5" guns.

The New Jersey had those removed from the 16" rifles in about 2001. That in itself is quite a story as the removal, grinding, repair and installation of the "Bucklers", which are heavy, had to be done with pure human power- no dockside m cranes!

I don't know too much about the Wisky in it's current location. I know that the Navy owns and operates the location of the ship and the Nauticus Museum. The City of Norfolk has authority over her care. And like all of these things, the actual maintenance involves a lot of volunteer hours, outreach for donations, and endless tour guidance.

It's one thing to have a crew of 1,900 men who are available, another to rely on older retired guys and people who love the ship enough to donate their spare time.

Interesting question, are you modeling the ship in her last operational state of post-decommissioning?

Yeah, I think those are just for museum display. It's amazing how much trash people stuff into gun barrels etc- I want to wring someone's neck for the sacrilage...  

modelcrazy

Bakster, I think those are covers for museum purposes. Here is one of the New Jesery's 5" guns during opperation.

Very good Admiral--thanks for confirming!  

Bakster, I think those are covers for museum purposes.

Here is one of the New Jesery's 5" guns during opperation.

Ted4321

For comparison, the Union Pacific Big Boy weighs 1,250,000lbs. 

Ted4321

Amazing machine you're building. 

Ok--another probably obvious thing to anyone but me. Below is a 1:1 image and they have some sort of cover where the guns travel. The model kit has only slots. Those are removeable covers correct? 

yes, the Iowas are impressive ships. 

For those interested, the "displacement tonnage" of a ship is nominally the amount of water that the ship displaces when fully loaded and floating. A cubic foot of water nominally weighs 62.4 pounds, of course variables apply. It's therefore the weight of the ship itself.

Because most ships other than these monsters want to displace more water than they weigh as designed for the purposes of stability and cargo capacity, they carry significant amounts of additional weight as ballast.

Early conversion plans that would have removed the 5" and 16" guns would have added 8,600 tons of ballast to make up for the weight lost.

Bakster

So interesting. Love this stuff.

 

Me too.

For comparison, the Union Pacific Big Boy weighs 1,250,000lbs. 

Amazing machine you're building. 

T e d

So interesting. Love this stuff.

Yes, I think you are right that the number is wrong. That's the displacement of the whole ship, didn't read carefully.

Each of the three triple turrets, with guns, weighs 2,100 tons.

GMorrison

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

 

GM-  Little overweight on a complete turret.  Think you got an extra "0" in there.

GMorrison

Yes there’s a good book written by the senior surviving officer. I think he was the captain of C turret.

The "Battleship Bismarck" excelent book.

Yes there’s a good book written by the senior surviving officer. I think he was the captain of C turret.

They bought themselves a day after the port rudder was damaged when the Prince Eugen turned east and the Bismark went west.

During that time the crew engaged in a number of options and considered others, such as blowing off the rudder, adding a dummy third stack, getting a tow from a U boat or floating off the ships papers in a plane.

modelcrazy

 

 

Bakster

Interesting. So on the Bismark do you think they fell out because the ship flipped on its way down?

 

 

Correct. In fact, most large warships capsize on the way down due to their center of gravity and top weight, plus the fact that the hull has some boyancy as the ship decends prior to the bulkheads bulkling, loosing their watertight seal and breaking up the ship.

The Bismarck is still pretty much in tact because the Germans, it is believed, opened ths sea cocks to skuttle her. She would have sunk anyway but the Gremans didn't want the British to do it there for no buckling bulkheads due to water pressure and no major destruction to the hull. She did capsize while sinking, loose her turrets and damagde superstructure on the way down, re-righted, hit the downslope of a mountain and slid down to the bottom, again minimizing the damage, relatively.

 

 

 

Bakster

Interesting. So on the Bismark do you think they fell out because the ship flipped on its way down?

Correct. In fact, most large warships capsize on the way down due to their center of gravity and top weight, plus the fact that the hull has some boyancy as the ship decends prior to the bulkheads bulkling, loosing their watertight seal and breaking up the ship.

The Bismarck is still pretty much in tact because the Germans, it is believed, opened ths sea cocks to skuttle her. She would have sunk anyway but the Gremans didn't want the British to do it there for no buckling bulkheads due to water pressure and no major destruction to the hull. She did capsize while sinking, loose her turrets and damagde superstructure on the way down, re-righted, hit the downslope of a mountain and slid down to the bottom, again minimizing the damage, relatively.

Bakster

 

 

GMorrison

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

 

 

 

 

Interesting. So on the Bismark do you think they fell out because the ship flipped on its way down?

 

 

This is awesome, Steve. I love how these things can turn into learning moments, not just for me, but for other people too. I love that diagram showing the various rooms and such. THANK YOU.

modelcrazy

BTW, when you get to it and if your up to it.....rigging. There are stays, lanyards and LF antennas. Don't worry, it's not difficult once you know what your looking at.

Buddy--you are a mind reader. This is something I planned to ping you guys on because--YES--I want to add rigging. My problem is is that I don't have a clue about it and thus far, I have not found any good visuals that I can try to match against, so--keep that on your burner plate. I have a long way to go before I get there but if possible--I'd like to do it. That would really complete the build.

You guys are great...

GMorrison

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

 

Oh no worries. The guns and the house together are generally thought of as the turret, if the house is armored. You might be interested to know that with the three guns mounted, an Iowa turret weighed 48,000 tons, the weight alone kept them seated. When the Bismark sank, her turrets fell out.

Gamera

Bakster: They look pretty friggin' good to me!!! 

 

Yeah, terminology .

Yes, the guns are in the turret which sit on roller bearings in a Barbette. The US, Gremans and some British ships covered the barrel gun ports with Blast Bags, Bloomers, Gun Buckers or Weather Seals to prevent the over preassure of the gun blast from injuring the gun crew, they also prevented sea spray and rain from entering the gun ports.

The US numbered their main turrets (1,2,3 and so on fore to aft). The Germans and the British alphabetize them (British A,B fore, Q,R mid and X,Y aft. Z not used. Germans, Anton, Bruno, Cessar, Dora, fore to aft.)

BTW, when you get to it and if your up to it.....rigging.

There are stays, lanyards and LF antennas. Don't worry, it's not difficult once you know what your looking at.

Thanks Gam.

steve5

learning new stuff is the mantra of this forum !!

Right you are, Steve. And thanks.

Bakster: They look pretty friggin' good to me!!! 

your doing a great job steve , learning new stuff is the mantra of this forum !!

Oh yeah--white glue should work for sure. I didn't consider using that.

GMorrison

I'm not sure what you mean when you say turret, but I understand what you are making.

I am using the term wrong then. I see that turret is the housing or mount for the guns. My bad, I am out of my element here. Thanks for the correction and I hope you guys keep enlightening me. I don't know all the proper terminology. 

I think that recoiled rifle looks just right. I'm not sure what you mean when you say turret, but I understand what you are making.

Sorry I didn't check in earlier, but a good way to make those weather seals on the barrels is white glue. It is easy to work with a toothpick, easy to fix/ remove, and paints ok.

I tried Apoxie Sculpt and I had issues. The stuff didn't stick to the frame well whilst I tried to fashion a shape. I quickly abandoned that idea. This stuff is over two years old I and think it's drying out. When I first bought the stuff, it was sticky as all get-go, now, not so much.

My first instinct worked best; I went with the sprue-goo. Like I feared I made some mistakes, but they were easily cleaned up. In the end the stuff worked pretty well. Heck, this stuff shrinks some and in doing so it created some interesting wrinkles and such that adds to the effect. Is it accurate and perfect, heck no, but for my purposes it is close enough.

Below: I used a sharp blade to score around the edge of the tape to unwrap them. 

Below, as it looks. If I'd want to, I could sand to shape them further, but I'll probably leave it as is.

Next up are the smaller guns.