AIRCRAFT - "Prototypes and Paper Projects" Group Build - Still Open.

Well I'm finally making progress on the little DFS.

Cockpit has been painted and installed. I replaced the kit control stick with one from the spares box. There's not a great deal to the cockpit, and I resisted the urge to add anymore as I have no pictures of the real aircraft's cockpit. Just left it at adding masking tape belts.

I've finally managed to load the software for my new digicam, just need to sort out photo hosting, and then I'll post some pictures.

Matrixone, that 190 sounds very interesting, can't wait to see the build.

Karl

Here is a couple of pictures of my progress so far on the two models I am working on for the group build, a Monogram 1/48 scale Do 335 and ProModeler Fw 190 D-11.
The Focke-Wulf is not being built OOB, I am converting it into a very late war D-12 or D-13 prototype that is pictured in a Russian book that was given to me years ago. The Focke-Wulf was photographed after the Russian army captured an airfield at or near the end of the war, this Fw 190 D is an unknown type that has the Ta 152 style tail and big air scoop and paddle blade prop, racks for air to ground rockets are seen under the wings. The book has no English text, it is all in Russian so the book is no help in telling me where the photos were taken or any details about the things in the photos. I know of only two other Fw 190 D aircraft that had the Ta 152 style tail installed so my book has photos of a very rare aircraft that should qualify for this group build.



The pictures above show my 1/48 scale ''helpers'' hard at work building my new models for me.

Matrixone

Howdy! I decided to pop back in real quick before I leave. Hm.. Yep, a whole bunch of stuff I know nothing about! I've never had the courage to try RC flying. I'd destroy too many planes to count! Okay, that answer's my question....

In the couple hours between posts, I had another idea how to wire the 290 that will work. Keeping with the seperate curcuits idea, I might wire the two banks of four engines with a 9 volt each. That'd leave 3 volts extra for each. I don't know. We'll see.

Good luck on the Komet! And good luck for everyone else!

No worries - I'm already looking at a trainer model, (hehehe another build project) and I'm going to join a club first
There's no way I'd try to teach myself! I've read about peeps trying to teach themselves and it always ends in disaster. I'm not going down that road!

I'm not in any hurry either; I like taking my time - after all, building is where half the fun is! I'm just intensely curious as to wether it'll work or not!

Some technical info: these size Rapier rockets weigh 6.5 grams and have a mean thrust of 91nM, with a peak thrust of 135nM and a burn time of 23 seconds.

Here's a link to the rocket motors:
http://www.samsmodels.demon.co.uk/rapier.html

norite,

I have many years of experience designing, buiding, and flying all kinds of R/C airplanes and the best advice I can give you is to get a trainer airplane and find someone that is experienced in teaching others to fly to help you.
Many times I have seen people try to learn how to fly on their own without accepting help and they ALWAYS destroyed an airplane or two before they understand that flying R/C airplanes is not as easy as it looks.
Make sure whatever radio you install is able handle the flight loads of a high speed airplane, the indoor R/C servos might be too weak for the powered phase of the flight of an aircraft like the Me 163.
On such a small airframe adding any weight at all will increase the wing loading enough to make the glide down quick and the landing speed very high. No problem if you are landing into a strong breeze or landing in tall grass.

HTH

Matrixone

Thanks for the input, maxitrone. I should have mentioned that you can also use solid propellant rockets - apparently they fly really well on the Rapier L2 rockets, which are about 4cm long, 1.1 cm in diameter and weigh a few grams. Yes, I will have to add weight to get the G of C correct; I think this can be mitigated by placing the micro transmitter slightly more forward; I have seen micro servos as well - in fact there is a micro indoor r/c scale modelling enthusiast group, so I think this is doable - but I have to do LOTS of research. There is also the additional problem of only having one set of ailerons for total control - up down, and left and right turns, this is dealt with by having a transmitter capable of what is known as mixing. Yes, lots of research is needed here. I am also going to get a proper trainer and learn to fly first!!!!!

Ahem, sorry this wasa bit OT for this GB. I should open a new thread when the real build gets underway!!

A rocket powered Me 163... Interesting... Whoever though up that idea? Is it going to be an RC Komet, or more like a model rocket (straight up, straight down/glide down)? Whatever it is, good luck!

frostygirl- Very nice cockpit! It looks like you did a lot with very little. The result is very good.

matrixone- Good to hear you've started something. Hopefully I'll be able to begin my project as soon as I get back from vacation!

I did some more thinking on the power source for my Zwilling, and came up with something that could work, even though it will involve a little more work. Here's the deal-
First off, I plan to use some pager buzzer motors that only pull about 1.5 volts each. That's the least amount of voltage I could find, and besides, the motors are tiny. (Less than a half inch long!) I figure, once all 8 are wired up (in series) they'll pull a total of 12 volts- three more than a 9 volt battery. I thought I could get away with this, but some tests with other motors told me I couldn't. So, where to get three extra volts...

Solution!

When it's all said and done, I'm going to end up wiring two seperate curcuits. Six motors (pulling a total of 9 volts) will be connected to the 9 volt, hidden inside one fuselage inside a fuel tank. The remaining two motors will be wired seperatly to a couple of AA batteries (which give 1.5 volts each. Convienient.) which will be hidden in the other fuselage. This mean I'll have to flip two switches to turn on alll 8 motors, but I'll live with it.

After today, I'll be gone for three weeks, so I obviously won't be posting anything. Until I get back- play nice, have fun, etc., etc., etc....

See y'all later!

norite,

That Me 163 idea sounds interesting, but I should warn you about adding a larger rocket motor in the back of the Me 163 could bring the CG too far back and make it wildly unstable. And if you add nose weight to balance the larger rocket motor it might fly good when under power but after the propellent is gone the extra nose weight will make the plane nose heavy and the glide angle will be very steep and result in a very hard landing.
If you decide to add a micro R/C unit to your Me 163 it could increase the wing loading so much that the flying quality of the plane will suffer.
Also you should consider where the antenna for the radio will be placed and the elevons should be sealed to prevent control surface flutter during the power phase of the flight.
Good luck with it!

Matrixone

The Me 163 Komet kit is made by Aerographics; they're based here in blighty, in Hertfordshire. galaxymodels.co.uk sell them, along with the rockets! This free flight kit is actually designed for a jetex 50 engine, slung underneath, but I want to see if I can mod it and install a proper solid rocket motor in the back, just like the real thing. I'm also thinking of modding it to accept radio; I think it can accept the micro servos and receivers...
It'll be a while before It's all finished, but i will defintely post piccies!!!!!

On the subject of the Dornier 335, I came across a site where someone had buillt a r/c version, installed two four stroke engines in it - it sounded quite realistic!! If I find the site, I'll post the links....

Lucien, on the subject of you wanting to motorise your giant build, phew...that's quite ambitious of you! The motors might well run of a 9v - but they will turn over quite slowly...all combined, they will all draw a lot of current, which will make the batteries go flat quickly. You could use less engines, and run the props using gears....now that will make it even more involved! Or use those tiny tiny engines from those micro r/c cars...

Norite, you really are going to have to post some pics of that 163, now you've got out attention!!!!!!!!!

Frostygirl, nice job on the cockpit of the 229, like the radar set.

I've actually started work on the DFS194, not that there is a lot to work on!!!!!

I'm doing an OOB on this kit, as there is not a great deal of info out there, and will try and post pics, when I have sussed how to load the software for my new digicam on the PC

Karl

Good job on the cockpit, frosty! I especially like the seat harnesses. What did you use? I find thin masking tape works pretty well....I am working on the cockpit for my Dornier Do 335. I haven't done much to it this week, because I'm building a rocket powered flying balsa wood model of the Me 163 Komet in 1/23 scale (40cm wing span)

frosty,

Great job on the cockpit so far, are you going to have the canopy open or closed?
On my old Ho 229 kit the canopy was pretty thick, I have not dug my Ho 229 V7 out of the bottom of my kit stash yet to see if PM improved the canopy any compared with the day fighter version, hope they did.

Right now I am working on the Monogram Do 335 for the group build, the cockpit(s) will be done sometime today.

Matrixone

hiya, folks !
i'm still working on the Ho 229, just uploaded the latest batch of WIP pix &
will try & link them now.


this is the plane w/ panel lines pencilled in
(this pic is file #0229 on my digicam, an odd coincidence !)


this is a closeup of the cockpit w/ scratchbuilt additions.


this is the cockpit area opened up...there's an oxygen tank behind the pilot's seat
made w/ a bit of sprue & scrap styrene rod. i painted it yellow, but i just read somewhere that the German ones were blue...
oh, well...i hope u like it so far !

frosty

Yeah, gringe88 (or Matt- whatever), I've never had a problem with thin kit struts on a heavy model, especially one that small. (I once again refer to the Testors Dauntless; cringe in disgust.) Hope the build goes fine, apart (or including. You pick.) from that. Hope to see pics!

KJ200- Good to see some pics from you in the future. I also have a digital camera, so for me that shouldn't be a problem. What is a problem might be that my successes with transferring said pictures has been less than stellar. Hopefully the problem will correct itself by the time I need it.

Now just a quick question from me- now, I'm no electrician (Yet I'm trying to motorize an eight-engined airplane. Figure that one out.), and my question was could you get away with a 9 volt battery and two AA batteries in the same series curcuit? Or will it make one or more of them catastrophicly explode at one time or another? Could this be done? It would solve a LOT of problems if I could.

Thank you.

(By the time I get back from vacation, I just might have one or more kits to start on. Very good.)

matrixone & KJ200-

no, my AS 6 is not that heavy and it is not mad eof resin. I've had experiences, where when I'm building or installng my models on a base, the struts have broken, and of course that weakened them for further breakage. So I've thought that just as a safeguard, it would be a good idea to include wire into the landing gear. but if you believe that the plastic struts should hold, if properly installed of course will hold, then I'd be OK with it. thx much for the help and advice.

-Matt

gringe88, if you're AS6 is resin, have you tried looking for whitemetal gear legs from one of the aftermarket manufacturers? These would be a lot stronger.

Well the weekend is almost upon us, well mine is, as I've got tomorrow off. My wife is away, leaving just me and the kinderlach............I feel a spot of modelling coming on!!!!!

And what's more my digital camera should turn up today, so I can even take pictures of my work, and prove I actually make models!

I'll try and get started, and possibly finnished on the DFS194 and post some pictures.

Karl

gringe88,

Your Sack AS 6 model sounds like it is very heavy for its size, if it is a mostly plastic kit the Airfix/Heller 109 gear legs should be strong enough, if it is one of those resin kits maybe wire reinforced landing gear legs should be considered.
I had been interested in some of Planet Models kits of those Luft 46 airplanes but since they are resin kits they are heavy and have read where after a short time the landing gear legs start to bend and distort because of the weight of the model and weak landing gear legs, for that reason I prefer plastic kits.

Matrixone

QUOTE: Originally posted by norite No kit can be as bad as Airfix; and that's a safe bet......

O ye of little faith! I actually like that little Airfix Lysander kit I just bought. The detail really is pretty impressive, except for the cowling and cockpit. But with a little tlc, I think it could become a very nice little model.
Now if you want to hear about a really BAD Airfix model, I could tell you about the (much younger!) 1/48 Buccaneer. The hull halves (horizontally split) on that thing are badly (really really badly) warped, and won't fit together at all. I consider myself something of a Bucc fan, but I haven't dared touch this bear of a model yet!
Their 1/48 BAE Lightning (the jet, not the Lockheed thing, for all you Americans out there) was released around the same time and is a dream to build though. Apparently, there has been some cooperation with an Asian company on the moulds..... might explain some things.

Anyhoo, my girlfriend and I are off on our holiday the day after tomorrow, so it'll be a little while before you hear from me again. Probably around the 27th. Until then: have fun building. I'm having a go at building the Monogram Hustler in an aluminum foil finish as a holiday project. At least that's the plan if I don't chicken out. Later all.

Hi Gringe, to cut open a vac canopy i first fill it with plastercene (modeling clay) then carefully score along the cut lines untill the parts seperate.
hope this helps.
Greg

matrixone-

so then, would it be a good idea to just use the Heller/Airfix kit gears, and just hide some wire alongside them under the aircraft??

by the way, the canopy on the AS-6 is slightly differnet from the Bf-109. the back curves dwon to meet the top of the fuselage. I was thinking of posing the canopy open, but because it's vacuuformed, that would mean trying to cut it up, and that could be dangerous. NE ideas on what I could do to fix that?

I was thinking of using the canopy from the Heller/Airfix kit, cutting it up , or just using it the way it is if it is separate, and just using the back end of the special Hobby kit.

what do u think?? If ne one else can help please, I would appreciate it.

So just to get this straight, that's a NO on the Testor's Dauntless

Not a problem, you don't get many Testor's kits in the UK.

Karl

QUOTE: Originally posted by Aaronw I remember trying to build a Lysander when I was about 12, probably the Matchbox because the light and dark brown sounds familiar. I say tried building because it was missing the canopy, normally a bummer but since the wings attach to the canopy it was pretty much unbuildable. The LHS wasn't and wouldn't even talk about replacing it. Kind of neat plane though. I've seen a pic of the version with a turret in a book of weird aircraft, must have been during the Boulton Paul Defiant stage of British aircraft design.

That's too bad. I might be a little leery about building a Lysander anyway, with the fact I have to glue the wings to the clear canopy! Eep! Too much room for error, if you ask me.

I really can't help you with kits of the Lysander, becuase I really don't know what's what about them. Sorry.

I had another thought today. I thought it might be fun to see if I could get the coolings fans of the Junkers Zwilling to spin with the props. Depending on the way the engines go together, it could be as simple as gluing them to the shaft along with the props. I'll have to see as soon as I get a kit.

Oh, and you want to talk about bad fit, get the Testors 1:72 SBD Dauntless. None of the five pieces go together straight, and the lack of detail and interior doesn't help any! (The whole five pieces thing was an exagguration to suggest humor. It's really more like four.)

No, wait, DON'T get the Testors Dauntless! I already told you why.

QUOTE: Originally posted by norite No kit can be as bad as Airfix; and that's a safe bet......

Have you tried Italeri's rebox of the Dragon rehash of the Trimaster me262?

The detail is stunning, but the fit is truly awful, but then I have head that about many Dragon kits, and had the same experience with Revell's rebox of their Fw190 D9.

At least with Airfix I start off with low expectations.

Karl

I remember trying to build a Lysander when I was about 12, probably the Matchbox because the light and dark brown sounds familiar. I say tried building because it was missing the canopy, normally a bummer but since the wings attach to the canopy it was pretty much unbuildable. The LHS wasn't and wouldn't even talk about replacing it. Kind of neat plane though. I've seen a pic of the version with a turret in a book of weird aircraft, must have been during the Boulton Paul Defiant stage of British aircraft design.

No kit can be as bad as Airfix; and that's a safe bet......

hey guys, has any of you built the eastern express / frog lysander?. i saw some the other day at Newark and am thinking of going back to pick a couple up if their ok, lets face it they can't be as bad as the airfix kit......or can they?????.
cheers.
Greg

Gregers, that is a truly bizarre looking bird.

I remember building the matchbox Lysander when I was about 10, lots of dark and light brown plastic, that made it look as if you'd ,made a plane out of chocolate and caramel!!!

Hope it goes well.

Karl

gringe88,
The Airfix/Heller late model 109s landing gear may not be any stronger than your kits gear legs but they are probably better detailed. Some of Special Hobbys kits have poorly detailed small parts that in some cases are in need of replacement.
The new Special Hobby kits such as the BV 155 and Fw 187 are greatly improved over their early released kits of a few years ago, even the small parts are well molded.

Matrixone

QUOTE: Originally posted by norite There is still the 3 engined Blohm und Voss P 170, but it's a tad expensive, and I haven't seen any kit reviews anywhere. It's a resin kit made by Planet...If anyone has found a review, plz post the link here....

I don't even think anyone has ever even built that kit, and I've never seen a review. Looking at the price, I don't really blame them. The closest I've seen to an interior shot is one taken by someone trying to sell one. It wasn't a very good picture, and I didn't see much. My suggestion- don't get it until you are extremly comfortable with resin aircraft kits!

Looking back at Swanny's website with the fuel tanks, I doubt I can replicate that type convincingly. So, I just plan to make a simple one, more square-like. And, of course, easier to make! (Check out Swanny's website's Fw200 Condor build to see for yourself. I'm not putting the pic here because I don't know if Swanny has any copyrights or whatever, and besides, it's just polite. I think.)

Hopefully I might add a topic sharing the pics I get from the museum. Until then, happy building!

Lucien-

thx! I've started work on the kit. pretty simple, shouldn't take more than a day or two.