ARMOR - Pz IV Group Build

Kenneth.....every time.....then I complain that I need to buy a new kit to replace the parts I stole out of the other!

Go back and check out the Dragon kit. At least 1/2 the kit is spare parts....I'm not joking. The kit is made up of sprues from the early brumbar, Jagdpanzer IV and one other. So instead of just copying the appropriate masters for a new mould, they threw in the whole sprue the original parts were on. In some case you only use a few parts off the whole sprue. I have 2 sets of pioneer tools left over, as well as a full set of rubber road wheels, Idler wheels, external transmission housings, towing clevis' and the retaining clamps and wing nuts, rear engine bay hatches, MG mounts, etc, etc, etc.

Bill, I was scratchbuilding before they invented PE. If you can use that fiddely Aber stuff you can scratchbuild. All you need is a good eye, some good references, and enough money to buy the styrene stock oh, and a certain amount of patience although my stock of that runs out from time to time.

For anyone interested, here is a site with some internal pics of the Ausf G at Munster and a H/J -forgot where. The site also has some good technical info too.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/willphelps/Album0000023.htm

Also Tanks2scale has quite a few pics including detail shots of several IV's:
http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?doc=German%20Tanks&wikiid=92&wpid=146336

All 3D things are comprised of 4 shapes or combinations of shapes. Break it down into those, and you can scratchbuild anything.

Cube
Cone
Cylinder
Sphere

i.e. look at your hand. A cube (palm) attached to a sphere (wrist) attached to a cylinder (arm). From it extend cylinders(fingers), with spheres in between(knuckles).

I started construction today. I decided to start out with the turret.I was dissapointed though becuase i wasnt really paying attention when i glued on the top. It might have ruined the model. Left gaps In a few places. Might be able to fix it. Its all done, except i am going to wait to attach the main gun until i paint the interior. Not sure I will begin the hull.

Hello friends:

Nice group!, your works are excellent, congratulations. I want to share with you my work of my Panzer IV, I hope you like it

Please go to: http://rtv-mm.com/MyProjects/PanzerIV/panzeriv-1.htm

Regards,
Rodolfo

Rodolfo,
Wow! nice work!
thanks for giving us the link to your pictures.
the roadwheel mask is a great idea.
but what, exactly is plasticine?
is it like clay?
i guess it does not react w/ paint (leave stains or residue)
this could be a great help.

rtv,,, I saw your other pics in another thread. again awesome job.

rtvmodeler... Great work, I like that a lot. The camo looks super.

here's pix of my first attempt at a PzIV,
hasegawa 1/72 w/ scratchbuilt spaced turret armor & shurzen (side skirts).





4 this build i'm going 2 use the same base kit, & try & do a conversion 2
an ausf. J, w/ mesh screen shurzen & only 3 return rollers...
maybe even do a bit of interior work...
i'll b taking my time on this build, i like the no deadline aspect 4 sure !

frosty

Nice work Rodolfo. That kit is the reissue of the 1975 Tamiya Ausf H - the one I plan to build. As I said, that kit needs some work!

Very nice job on the scratchbuilt armour Frosty, but Mr Rivet Counter asks:
What version was the initial kit? Looks like a G because it looks like it has the L/43 gun, has solid arms on the drive sprockets (what is that bump on the sprocket centre?) and it looks like it has the aerial trough down the side. Has the turret got a small circular hatch on the flat panel near the cupola? If so then this is a G which didn't have the hull schurtzen although you have the correct type for a very early H but then the hull would need zim. (Just ignore Mr Rivet counter, he is just a pain in the rear end)

The H /J had the L/48 gun (about 15 inches longer), new drive sprockets (see rodolfo's pic here),

the aerial was relocated to the rear hull opposite side and they did not have the signal port on the turret roof. Also, the late H's and all J's had steel return rollers for the tracks not the rubber lined ones and the new cast idler wheels, not the tube frame ones. The H had a separate muffler for the auxiliary engine whereas the J didn't. (it's the square box to the left of the muffler in this pic of Rodolfo's. Note the aerial mount here too.)


After your scratchbuilt M32, a conversion to a IV Ausf J shouldn't prove too hard for you. Getting the mesh to scale and to stick will be a good experience! Gotta love someone who scratchbuilds. Do you drill out your track guidehorns too

Geez, I don't know about you, Peter, what do you really think?? lol

Frosty, I've seen the mesh shurzen in 1/72 PE by Parts, but it's been a while. I'll see if I can find a hit for you.

Whoa! Found them. Looked on GM site and they are listed as Parts Accessories ptp72020 for $12.95 retail, $11.65 web price, but they aren't in stock. Maybe you can find one at one of your favorite sites.

Good luck.

FYI, very nicely done panzer IV.
http://www.track-link.net/gallery/2793

WOW, you some of you guys are coming along nicely!! everyone has some great builds so far, thanks for sharing. As for myself, well i have barely started the Dragon Pz IV F2. I have told myself that I have to get some other stuff done first and that other stuff is going a lot slower than I thought it would.

feldgrau23, here is a sketch I made up of the original dampers. I hope this helps. Oh, and you can’t really make it out, but there are two bolts holding the rubber damper onto the bracket. As best I can tell the dampers should be about .5cm at the widest point, and about .5cm in height.


good luck with your builds all!!

Those are some really cool builds. For sure.

On the D... What is the correst color for the muffler??? rust?
And the directions say to paint the return wheels in one color? is this right? most pics i found showed that they were two colors, black and gray. Anyone know?

rebelreenactor, the return rollers should be two colors. The rollers were still rubber on the Pz IV D. As far as the color on the muffler, well it would have been painted the same color as the tank, but the constant heating and cooling would have made the paint chip off fast. Once the paint started to chip off, it wouldn’t be long before it started to rust. So I guess you have to ask yourself, “how new is this Pz IV D?”

I did it. I ordered the Italeri Pz IV Ausf. F1/F2. I'm getting it from Roll Model and they say it will be 2-3 weeks untill it's ready to ship, is this normal?
Does anyone know if this kit has indy tracks? I would like to have the indy tacks, so if it doesn't who would you suggest I get?

Too bad. I just finnished my panzer IV and it looks great. Maybe I'll be able to post pics within a day or two if you guys would like. Let me know.

Thanks edog, so maybe a steel ish color?

Now another question What color would the inside of the hatches be? Would it be panzer gray? or would it be white?
thanks guys, should be the last question (I hope)

Rebel If i am not mistaken,, and somebody correct me if I am wrong but they were painted the same as the exterior of the vehicle.

Edog,,,, thanks for the drawings. I am going to geuss then if the dampers were 5mm tall and 5mm wide at the bottom then the top was about 3mm wide with about 1mm on each side of supports and the rubber damper will be about 4mm wide. Man,, I may need to get my eyes checked after doing six of these. I wonder if converting this to an A or B would be easier???

Looking at the drawings edog, I was thinking. Regarding the Tamiya D, Why not trim the bracket at the horizontal piece of the damper and attach a section of dowelr or rod to represent the rubber damper? The bracket isn't all that different is it?

MurderDogg, I think I speak for all of us when I say we would love to see some pics of your Pz IV.

Rebelreenactor, From photos, it appears that the inside of the hatches to be painted the same color as the expterior.

Feldgrau, I plan on making one damper and casting the rest in resin. You may want to give it a try as well. As far as backdating the kit, you would have to revamp the gun mantel, remove the turret traverse motor muffler, remove some of the supports around the tow hitch, and a bunch of minor stuff. If you don’t get too carried away with the minor stuff, it might not be too hard. I realize you may have been kidding, but if you get seriously thinking about a backdate, let me know.

Renarts, you could try that with the dampers to correct them a little, but it would still bug me. It’s just a personal preference I guess. I would say do what ever you want for your kit and if the dampers don’t bug you, then don’t worry about it.

thanks

Thanks edog. I'm with you though, if it's not right, then it's not right. To the styrene stash!
So... based on your drawing and the******poor reference I have of them...
The triangular shaped plate that attaches to the hull has a cylindrical sleeve attached to it, beneath the two vertical plates or brackets and the rubber damper is set up inside this sleeve or housing. The rubber damper protrudes down out of the sleeve a bit?

Alright here are some progress pics. They were taken yesterday so i have a little more completed.




I had a major screw up beyond repair without a dremel. I started construction on step 6 and then never finished it. I took a break, came back and started working on step 7.
i was working on one side and then i realized i had a big mistake. I glued the Late version armor plates too far back. I i would halve completed step 6 this never would have happened.


I think i could have trimmed this off with a dremel.

its a blurry picture but basically it is a huge gap that i will fill in with putty.

and to make things a bit more interesting, i was going to put the handle ont he engine cover and the part flew to the beyond. As soon as i finished making a handel out of wire and glued it into place, this is where i found it.

oh well.
and to make things worse for me, I have been to rough with some of the small pieces and one of the broke. right now it is being glued back together.
well i hope everything is going well for you guys.

oh yeah, the big peices are dry fit.

CRAP! I drove all the way to Jacksonville to the NSLHS....an no Pz IV! Yaaaaah.. I could have called but then I wouldn't have ended up with the new AFV Club 251 Halftrack and Ospreys Panzer Modeling Masterclass.... I just couldn't go in there without buying something....

Anyway back to the point... How dreadful is the Italeri Pz IV H.... I have one that I can spruce up a bit with Tamiya's OVS and what not... What should I watch out for as far as fit....?

Frosty, Great job on the scratchbuilding... You are becoming known for it....
It good to such zeal from the younger crowd....

Heres the turret on mine. The Eduard PE is o.k. but has some issues.
I closed up the vision blocks and replaced some parts like stowage hooks with scratchbuilt. The PE reinforcement band on the rear of the turret was too short. So I made a new one from styrene. The rivets are styrene rod cut and sanded to an appropriate height. replaced the grab handles becuase it was easier to make them from wire than it was to scrape the parting line off the kit pieces.


The periscope had no opening so I hogged out a divet in the periscope housing and filled it with putty. I then used a home made tool to make the impression of the port opening for the periscope.
The frame under the gun is trimmed differently than what the kit calls for. It shows it attached to the mantlet but the photo documentation I have does not reflect this. So it was trimmed up (you can't see it in the pic).


The hull rear with the improvised chains I posted about earlier. In this close up pic they really look bad. But with the naked eye they look much better. A buddy of mine was over the other night and asked where I found such small chain so it passed the visual test.

John and Mike your IVs are coming along nicely.

Edog,,, now you got me thinking do I or dont I ???? Well let me know what the major and minor changes are. Keep in mind I will not be doing an interior on this so inside changes wont be that important. Most likely I will change it to a B. I have found some of the changes and 1 of the major ones is that the front is not angled between the driver and radio operator which will move the side vision port up as well as the lifting hook. Also the idler wheel looks a little different as well. Yeah the more I think about it I think I will make it a B of course this means possibly changing the main color back to Panzer Grey unless in my research I can find that there werre B's in the Desert. I Think there were but alas back to the research.

Looking nice mike. All my references show the aerial deflector frame was not fitted to the mantlet too. Home made chain is hard reproduce for close ups! I tried winding fine wire in and out of pins pushed into some balsa. Looked okay, but I go lazy on this one now and use Tiger Model Design very fine chain - Cheap as chips at 12" for AUD $6-50 (about $5 US) and looks great to.

Like the sliver of styrene in the idler adjuster - who has a Tamiya D or H that doesn't need it?

Coming along nice rebel. What is that yellow track link? It looks resin. Any chance gentle persuassion will get that plate off without too much damage?

Love the pic of the tweezers, been there done that. Ever dropped a tiny piece and found it minutes later - melted on top of the open jar of glue? I have. Led to my first attempt at scratchbuilding. I keep the lid on now.

Ok ya'll I pulled out the Italeri H kit this morning before work and looked it over. Once again the mantlet is damaged just like the other one. I will try an turn a new one if I can't find a replacement. The thin lip of the mantlet where it matches up to the gun tube is mangled from the packaging. I also broke down and ordered a set of Eduard Zim for this one. I don't really fancy the PE Zim but I REALLY don't want to zim it by hand with all those little fittings to go around...

Ya'lls stuff is lookning great. Mike, Theres nothing like the sight of an old kit crusted up with white styrene bits.... Good Job...!

Rebelreenactor, Looking good pal.!