AIRCRAFT - Battle of Britain Group Build (Jan 1st 2005 - May 31st 2005)

QUOTE: Originally posted by jboutin That reminds, me what glue is the best kind, I have some old tubes of testors and a jar of the liquid stuff, what do most people use now.

opinions vary but I LOVE the Model Master liquid in a little plastic bottle with a tiny metal tube... once the glue gets to the tip, capillary action draws it out as you move it along a seam... nowadays I only use it for small bits and things like instrument panels and control sticks that go into "pin and socket" type things...

For seams, wings, long join areas, I only use Ambroids or Tenax 7 plastic welders now... they actually melt the plastic on contact and "weld" it together.. all in seconds!

Ambroids uses a brush included in the bottle, it is a liquid... well, like water... you brush the substance over the seam and it sucks into the crevice by capillary action... 10 seconds later it's set! no worrying about putting it down and it moving etc...

Tenax has the same properties but you can use either a tiny brush, or a capillary glue pen... it's a glass tube with a fine metal needle in the end...

fill the pen, hold the seam just like you like it and run it backwards (never go forward as the melting plastic will clog the tip) and presto! in seconds you can let go and it's set! The beauty of it is you can glue just an inch or so at a time.. realigning the seam each time so when you are done all it takes is minimum sanding to make the sides match... It really has improved the way the seams come out on my AC and keeps me from those 1 hour sanding jobs to get rid of the lip if it shifted after I let it go... For me one of those two are the best... followed by the MM Liquid...

I dunno about how 'bad' the Airfix Hurricane kit is, I compared it against Mk 1 plans this evening (the plans can be found here: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/hurricane/mk1mksh1.jpg) and as you can see in the pic below they match very closely (well, close enough for me anyway )



My only real complaint about the kit is the raised panel lines and the lack of any cockpit detail--but I'm intending to order the eduard PE next week to fix the latter, and my hand cramps are testament to my desire to fix the former .

Heck, even the pilot figure is pretty ok--although as you can see below he's suffering some surgery at the hands of Sean Campbell M.D.


(hot DAMN, can I take blurry photos or what?!?)

And as for where this boyo works--as promised the office pic from '60 Years'



Forgive me though, for it is a digital photo and not a scan as I had said--my office scanner crapped out apparently and no one told me

jboutin: I'm thinking of maybe turning this little beast into a dio and entering it in May's RMMC competition--even though I've never really attended any meetings or anything. You involved in the local model scene, or just a poseur like me? As for your question about glue, I use Humbrol liquid poly, and swear by the fumes!

Sean

Osher, too bad you don't have that kit in 1/48. I just got my decals in today and they are a real set of beauties! In fact there are 2 sets of ZG/26 and one of ZG/76 included... I would have been more than happy to share one of the 26 sets with ya. If you decide to pick it up later let me know! I also got the decals of the ill-fated SBD I am doing but they are the wrong size compared to the insignia from the particular size I am doing. (Guess I have to go down and buy another SBD to put em on! ) So I will be using the Wildcat insignia indeed...

---edit---

if anyone else gets this kit let me know... I'd be willing to send ya the decals I don't use... not sure which one I am going to pic.. there's some nice noseart on one of the planes... gotta figure out which one as I want to build that one...

37C in Melbourne you say darson, nice and toasty. You should try Calgary for a little while, last night it got to minus 25C! Todays high was -5 or so. I just gotta get to a hobby shop and find me a Hurricane kit but the icy roads don't help much!

I opened up some old modelling stuff I had in a box and I found a half finished typhoon! I gotta get on that one. I also have a TBD (Monograms 1:48) I haven't finished but after a lengthy search I found I am missing only some decals, the rear gunners .50 cal and the pilots canopy. The rest is painted and put together, just trying to figure out what I can do about the missing parts. I can't wait to get on this new one and start fresh after a long hiatus from it. That reminds, me what glue is the best kind, I have some old tubes of testors and a jar of the liquid stuff, what do most people use now.

Deep freeze, I don't think so guys. In this part of the world it's going to be 37 degrees (99 Fahrenheit) today and my wife and kids are going to be spending the day in the pool while I'm at work


Speaking masking, this is something that annoys the cp out of me. Not just doing the masking, but what materials to use. I am basically a lazy modeler and have used commercial pre-cut masks on the last couple of models I have done in order to save time on a job I don't like doing. The results are OK, but the effort involved in wiping the canopy down with a 10/0 brush and Goo Gone to get rid of the residue these masks are leaving behind is just not worth it . I have never used BMF before as a mask but I'm sure going to give it a try.
Thanks, I feel much better now.

Joe, I hear what you are saying with old kits, it's nice to remember the kits you used to build as a kid, it's quite another to compare them to today’s kits. I think both you and whytwolf have your work cut out for you.

Cheers
Darren

OK, finally started modelling! So far just assembled a few bits of the bf-110 cockpit, and some painting in RLM02. Next will be to finish painting the pilot's seat, and those tiny (this is 1/72) moulded in buckles and belts. The decals for the instruments have yellowed, so they have been placed next to the window to be bleached by the clouds, er, sun (might be a long wait, this is England). Whilst waiting (and waiting) for the decals, will work on the nacelles, landing gear, etc. Good job I have the bf-110E-4 to keep me moving forward.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1 Tom Your bottom looks Skyish to me. But when I enlarged the pic it looked broken, looks like there's a nasty crack in it.

where???? I looked at it, must be a trick of the light or something... there are saggital "plates" overlapping along the fuselage... it's the way they were riveted together... I hope that's what ya mean... I keep going back and looking afraid I missed something!!!

JoeRugby: yeah I learned that pretty early on back into modelling... what worked as a kid is not what works today as far as models... Tamiya, Accurate Miniatures and Hasegawa are high on my list, and surprisingly one from the old days, Monogram's "Pro-Modeller" kits are decently detailed and go together well... There's more out there that are good, but I learned quality over what names I recognized is the way to go!!

To WhytWolf, stuck in a snow bank.
I would be very interested to see your picks of the 1st sqdn RCAF. I am plannig on doing a hurricane from that sqdn. Seeing as I'm in Calgary too, maybe we should contact each other and compare builds, let me know. I have as yet to buy my kit though.

ps this deep freeze sucks, can't wait for spring.

Nice work on the Hurricane so far, Whytwolf.

Joe, looking forward to looking at your pics.

Regards, Rick

Can't wait to see Joe!
And your right, BMF is the way to go!!
Has been my choice for a long time now, and I will never change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My meager contribution to the build is coming to completion. Airfix 1/72 Hurricane MK. 1. Done out of the box. Added Pacific Coast decals. They are nice for sure. No. 1 Squadron crate.

This is my first kit since in ten years. Lessons learned;

Spend the money on a quality kit. Nostalgia does not cut it. Airfix was my kit of choice when I was younger. Now with limited time and space I will be dropping the money on better quality. The propellor hub is "strange" and I am reworking it. The kit is also out of scale, not by much but it was noticable when I was mounting the Pacific Coast's fin flash. Tail was way too small, and if my math was right this had an overall negative impact.

Bare Metal foil is an awesome mask!!! I never thought of this stuff in this way before!!!

I will be posting the photos soon, I hope...

Jules: you're such a kill-joy! That's ok... I decided I am going to start my own Group Build... it's called "Group Build of One" ... where I am the only one allowed to join and there is no stop date or start date... I build what I want, when I want... hmmm wait, I do that when I am not doing GB builds anyay... oh well at least this way I get a nifty badge!

Darren: Thanks! This kit goes together like none I have built yet! Even my beloved Acc Miniatures SBD!

Rick: Isn't it the truth with cameras! What looked perfectly ok to me, I didn't question till you said something, and when I went back, I saw it with new eyes! It's funny how the brain will play tricks on you.. (I knew I sprayed it with sky, so it was sky to me even though it appeared tannish..). Brains... who needs em anyway!

Darren and Osher: In looking up details on my Martlet yesterday I ran across Xtracolour on several sites and even on the IPMS Stockhold site they lauded it for being exact matches in its colors...

Ok, lets see if I can reply in series.
Rick Freehand THAT camo, are you nuts!!!
Actually I did try, got it pretty good on paper, but didnt have the squirrel food to see it through
Jules Yeah, the mask was around 1 mm from the model surface, hence all the Blu Tak dots. For a softer edge, just space it further away, and use slightly more pressure.
Darren The masking stuff I use is called Mask It, I got it from frontlinehobbies.com.au, cost something like $16 bucks for 8 15x10 inch sheets.
It's fantastic stuff, and perfect for camo schemes, low tack adhesive, and easy to cut.
Tom Your bottom looks Skyish to me. But when I enlarged the pic it looked broken, looks like there's a nasty crack in it.

Well, had a fitful evening of modeling today--had to dig my ex-wife's car out of a snowdrift when she got stuck picking up my daughter....think I need to be awarded something for going 'above and beyond' on that one So needless to say I hunkered down for something more condusive to keeping calm, but I'm discovering that re-scribing panel lines is almost as annoying as my ex

In any case, I was able to get some dimples in my kit filled, and masked the canopy. I also cut out the side exhausts just behind the prop (forgive me if my nomenclature sucks--I was armored recce in my day and know a lot about modern armor and a/c, but NOTHING about WWII birds) and started scratch-bilding replacements from tube.

Some pics:






The last pic is of my silicon mold of the prop while it cures. I'm hoping to scratch-build a prop-blur effect and figured I'd cast a resin copy or two of the hub just incase I this up and need to mount the original.

Not much I know, but I hope to get some time next week to continue my scribing and somehow keep sane. Is the scribing worth it?

Tom: like I said, I know zip about WWII birds, but that paint job looks good to me!
Rick: Will try to scan the 'office' at my office and post it tomorrow.

Sean -- havn't had hand cramps like this since I was in the army

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 Rick, it's actually sky... I edited and added a little more to the original post probably while you were posting this... the lighting might have it off... I searched through some references but finally decided on a FAA web site with all the research and photos and drawings in the public section... ok here's a better lighted shot, after reading your post and going back I realized it DID look a bit tan.. added the flash and got better lighting... it looks a little more green in the pic than the naked eye sees it... this may stir some contreversy but I am pleading the "there could have been one" adage as I didn't feel like paying 5 dollars in shipping for a 3 dollar bottle of paint, and the Tamiya sky I had looks like metal flake blue... since the regs changed in June, 1940 to a sky underbelly I decided I could be safe with it.. I do think it was actually sky grey or later sky blue in the shipments actually intended for Britain.. but the French craft diverted to England might (in my mind probably would have) been painted the regulation colors at the time by RAF crews... Like I mentioned to Darren I might do one in the black and grey scheme as well because I think it would look neat! (and order the appropriate paint with it)

OK Tom, the new pic looks more like what I would expect. Here in this digital age, it's still hard to photograph & display the colors properly & we modelers bitch about the discrepancies in photos taken 65 years ago with primitive color film .

Regards, Rick

OMG [:0] What is going on around here, 162 posts in 11 days, I can't keep up

Sorry I have been a bit tardy around here lately and there are so many good threads that I would love to respond to but by the time I think about logging on the topic I'm responding to is 3 pages back!

Firstly whytwolf (Campbell) I know you have been here a while now but to the GB anyway, I'll be looking forward to having a look at your work.

Sean, great looking camo on the 109, you’ve come up with a great solution to a tricky problem. I really do have to get myself some of that masking stuff you use, can you tell me what it's called again and where can I get it from.

Tom your Martlet is looking great; you and Tweets are the fastest builders I have ever seen.
Also, I would love to try out those Vallejo colors, but I can't find anywhere in my area that stocks them. I know that you can get them on the West cost of Aus but not in Victoria on the east coast where I live.

Jules, ditto with Tom. Even if I finish the Spit early I still have a Hurri waiting to be built.

Osher I normally use Model Master enamels, but when it comes to RAF aircraft I never go past my Xtracolor paints.
I have checked my reference books for you and the following Bf 110 unit took part in the BoB
Erprobungsgruppe 210
V(Z)/LG 1
Stab/ZG 2
7./LG 2
Stab ZG 2
I/ZG 2
II/ZG 2
Stab/ZG 26
I/ZG 26
II/ZG 26
III/ZG 26
Stab/ZG 76
I/ZG 76
II/ZG 76
II/ZG 76
4(F)/14
I(F)/22
3(F)/31
4(F)/121
4(F)/122

Good building guys
Darren

I have not even made a start yet, although the kit is out on the bench waiting to go.

The old Monogram Spit IIa's tailwheel looks rather odd, so I might cut it off and shorten it a tad. Anyone else think this would be go?

cheers

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900 Picked up another for that N. Africa build we were talking about. Osher, who joined this build emailed me about doing an Eduard Bf-108 Taifun for it... so I believe we have a following for this!!! Can we start it tomorrow?

Now Tom i thought we had decided to start the thread in April and start the builds on May the 1st

And Osher Tom's right, GB's can be addictive i'm in 5 already and it's only the start of January

haha not to worry Osher.... it's a far off thing, we are just talking about it.. and if you haven't figured out, we all like to talk here... (a lot)

I found a good source awhile back, I will research tomorrow on it... those decal lists I sent you have the JG's on em... if you put on your magnifier hood you can read the picture! haha... I know JG26 was there.. and I believe seeing JG54 as well... will update you tomorrow...

and word to the wise... the group builds can get addictive!!! Especially with all the resources like Rick and Darren around, as well as the talkers like me Jules and Chip.. er... sorry about that... Tweety!

Just wondering: can anyone recommend a good website for Luftwaffe squadrons that took part in the BoB? I've found plenty on the aircraft, plenty on RAF Sqaudrons, but not much on the Luftwaffe squadrons.

I say this because, due to the emails with tho9900, I did more research, and found that my Fujimi 1/72 bf-110 can be made to represent a BoB aircraft. Using the Fujimi decals, it can be made up into an aircraft of 5/ZG1 (which I think was originally JG54, if I understood the internet), and I want to see if this is a BoB squad.

Speaking of the North African GB: Yikes! Have I just committed myself to another GB, and I have yet to actually start the building of the BoB GB?! (I will start to build tomorrow, promise!)

not going anywehre Jules! I've got a Bf 100 or a He 111 I plan on doing! this was just a pick me up after having to wait so long for the actual start date!

Picked up another for that N. Africa build we were talking about. Osher, who joined this build emailed me about doing an Eduard Bf-108 Taifun for it... so I believe we have a following for this!!!

Can we start it tomorrow?

Yeah the colour on the Martlett looks about right to me too, very close to the Duck egg green i used on the Spit MK1

Tweety great job on the camo mate I just want to make sure i've got this right, you held the masks slightly above the model with bluetac to give it a soft edge instead of a sharp edge right
That may be the way to go to do that desert 109E from JG 27

Oh yeah don't you boys go racing to finish your builds, It's going to take me until the finish date to get done so you have to hang around until then

yeah I used Vallejo on this one Osher, the "Colors of Eagles" type and they are a bit undershaded to accomplish the "scale" effect toning down in advance... (FS colors looking darker than the actual shade because of the kit being smaller than the actual subject)

They go on smoooooth too! I'm really starting to get to like them!

The underside of the Marlett looks right to me. My Xtracolor RAF Sky (the Humbrol Sky and the Revell Sky are also similar, but I've been told that the Revell one is more Luftwaffe, and there are two Humbrol candidates, each a shade different)
seems to be similar, and that I have been assured is the right colour for my Spitfire (If I can find my camera, I'll photograph it and post it). I always trust Xtracolor to be right!

Rick, it's actually sky... I edited and added a little more to the original post probably while you were posting this... the lighting might have it off...

I searched through some references but finally decided on a FAA web site with all the research and photos and drawings in the public section...

ok here's a better lighted shot, after reading your post and going back I realized it DID look a bit tan.. added the flash and got better lighting... it looks a little more green in the pic than the naked eye sees it...



this may stir some contreversy but I am pleading the "there could have been one" adage as I didn't feel like paying 5 dollars in shipping for a 3 dollar bottle of paint, and the Tamiya sky I had looks like metal flake blue... since the regs changed in June, 1940 to a sky underbelly I decided I could be safe with it.. I do think it was actually sky grey or later sky blue in the shipments actually intended for Britain.. but the French craft diverted to England might (in my mind probably would have) been painted the regulation colors at the time by RAF crews...

Like I mentioned to Darren I might do one in the black and grey scheme as well because I think it would look neat! (and order the appropriate paint with it)

Tom, what color did you use for the undersurface? On my screen it looks like a light tan. I'm no expert on the Martlett, but I would have guessed a light grey or light Sky Blue color.

Regards, Rick

ok I got as far as I can go tonight.. will hopefully have some time tomorrow to get further along... I got the bottom painted, it's drying right now...

here's the bottom:



it looks like many another aircraft's bottom, but I thought I would show you mine

Really a nice kit.. especially would be nice with some AM detail, might build another one in some other country's clothes... or even in 804 garb, different plane...

---edit---

Darren - decided to go with two sites references today and go with sky... one reason I had it in Vallejo, second Sky Blue and Sea Gray are 3 hours away from me (the shop that carries them)

final reason is the fleet air arm web site I found with a drawing of a Martlet from 804 Sqn in 1940 on it.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/804.html

The other site had this:

http://pub17.bravenet.com/forum/1444714527/fetch/280657

So at the time it MIGHT have been sky blue as the second source seems to suggest, but the first site is more closely aligned to factual FAA research so I went for it... I really do want to build the Martlet in the black and sea grey/sea blue scheme and might do another one if I can find different decals or at least different AC markings for an 804 a/c. Because I did find references to the Sky Grey as well (was actually a close match of Dupont USA paint used for it as they were being painted here to ship to England..)

Whytwolf, if it's not a lot of trouble I'd like to see a scan of the Hurricane pit.

Thanks, Rick

Looking forward to seeing your build progresss Whytwolf... don't worry about your name, it was my chance to give Tweety some trouble again, he'll dish it back my way soon enough! I figure if we have something real specific to say to one of the hundreds of you here, I'll just use the screen name...

Chip will probably insist on using first names as usual!

Wow, what a great job on that masking Sean/Tweety/Chip/Biff. (as an aside, if it helps, when I was in the army they just called me Campbell--might keep the confusion down )

Wanted to note to others who might be building the Hurricane--especially the 1st (canadian) Squadron 'canes from BoB, I have the RCAF 60th Anniversary book '60 Years' which includes some great shots of the 'cane--including one of the cockpit. Let me know and I can get some scans made.

Sean -- Time to start saving for those aftermarket parts