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Battle of Midway Aircraft Group Build

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 17, 2005 8:56 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900

ok... the only thing I can say is wow.... I sprayed the exterior bits (gear doors etc) with Alclad and this is some good stuff.. I am sold on it... even the first time an amateur like me pulled it off... I think anyone with a little patience could!!!

I need to shoot some more black primer on the aircraft body today so I can alclad tomorrow.. I was right, if I spray the alclad on the black primer it loses it's "tackiness" I don't think it is a problem with it not curing (it's been a week) I think it is just a wierd texture so I didn't trust it...

I can't wait to finish this one to be able to start on my Martlet...


Tom I am a big fan of Alclad, but found out the hard way about how deceiving the black primer can be as far as it's cured state goes.

I finished a P-38, and laid on the black primer, left her sitting for a week to cure.
Went back and sprayed the Alclad, and all was well.
2 weeks later I looked at it, and the finish had 'cracked' all over.

That was 2 years ago, and it is still sitting in the cupboard waiting for repair as soon as someone comes up with a miracle way of removing Alclad without totally destroying the model.Sad [:(]

AHA Thats what happened to the Mustang then[:0] i sprayed on the Alclad after letting the primer dry for 48 hours and yes little cracks have started to appear all overSad [:(] next time i'll leave it for a weekWink [;)]
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: NSW, Australia
Posted by pingtang on Sunday, April 17, 2005 9:01 PM
I'm nearly ready to prime my dauntless. Most of the seams have been cleaned up, and I just need to re-scribe some panel lines I lost during sanding.

Tom I found that Model master enamel gloss black works well with alclad chrome. With the regular shades (anything except chrome and polished aluminium), you can use any grey primer underneath it. I've used Tamiya gloss black as a base for aluminium and it worked well except that it did the same thing as tweets one. After a week or so, it started cracking. Next time I'll let it cure for a few weeks before spraying the alclad.
-Daniel
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Alice Springs Australia
Posted by tweety1 on Monday, April 18, 2005 1:58 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by j.s.harrison

QUOTE: Originally posted by tweety1

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900

ok... the only thing I can say is wow.... I sprayed the exterior bits (gear doors etc) with Alclad and this is some good stuff.. I am sold on it... even the first time an amateur like me pulled it off... I think anyone with a little patience could!!!

I need to shoot some more black primer on the aircraft body today so I can alclad tomorrow.. I was right, if I spray the alclad on the black primer it loses it's "tackiness" I don't think it is a problem with it not curing (it's been a week) I think it is just a wierd texture so I didn't trust it...

I can't wait to finish this one to be able to start on my Martlet...


Tom I am a big fan of Alclad, but found out the hard way about how deceiving the black primer can be as far as it's cured state goes.

I finished a P-38, and laid on the black primer, left her sitting for a week to cure.
Went back and sprayed the Alclad, and all was well.
2 weeks later I looked at it, and the finish had 'cracked' all over.

That was 2 years ago, and it is still sitting in the cupboard waiting for repair as soon as someone comes up with a miracle way of removing Alclad without totally destroying the model.Sad [:(]

AHA Thats what happened to the Mustang then[:0] i sprayed on the Alclad after letting the primer dry for 48 hours and yes little cracks have started to appear all overSad [:(] next time i'll leave it for a weekWink [;)]


Yeah it really s***s ya Jules, but I reckon I layed the black on a TAD to thick, cause the Sabre (there's that word again!!) Alclad finish is fantastic and still good.
Alclad is great, but can be a little tricky, it's just such a mongrel to remove I haven't even attempted it yet, and trying to use Alclad thinners eats the styrene and stuffs the kit completely.
--Sean-- If you are driving at the speed of light and you turn on the headlights, what happens???
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Monday, April 18, 2005 6:44 AM
hmmm I smell an alclad support group forming...

yeah I think I layed the primer on a little thick too.. *I* thought it was a thin coat but I think they are talking about really thin... but like Daniel was saying, it's just plain grey primer for me next time...
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 9:06 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900

hmmm I smell an alclad support group forming...

Hmmm You may well be right Tom and Tweets mentioned "The Sabre" again..[:0]
Better give Old Kremps a call ehWink [;)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 18, 2005 9:10 AM
Oops [oops] i forgot to say that i gave the mustang 2 coats of black primer, i figured that i should put it on thick cause i intended and did sand it smooth as with 1200 grit wet...
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Monday, April 18, 2005 7:23 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by j.s.harrison

Oops [oops] i forgot to say that i gave the mustang 2 coats of black primer, i figured that i should put it on thick cause i intended and did sand it smooth as with 1200 grit wet...


same story here Jules - I used two coats, with a bit to dry in betweeb coats... I think I went too heavy with the second one thinking the first one would dry through the second one... I am thinking of putting a cheap kit together and trying to thin thin coats and sufficient drying time between... or maybe I will follow Swanny and Daniels advice and try either Krylon black decanted, or MM gloss black... I have a few vacation days coming this week so maybe I will get it done...
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
Posted by darson on Monday, April 18, 2005 9:54 PM
OK guys I know this is waaaaay off topic but you guys seem to have a lot more Alclad experience than me.
As a side project I'm building AMtech's Focke-Wulf Ta 183 which is a fantastic kit BTW which I would highly recommend to anyone as a fun build. Anyway I'm painting my Luft 46 plane with a BMF and wanted to know if I am using a combo of Polished Aluminium, Aluminium & Duralanium for different panels, what is the best primer to use? Also, is there really any difference in using Acrylic or Enamel primers for Alclad?

Cheers
Darren
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: NSW, Australia
Posted by pingtang on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:08 AM
Almost bought me a High planes CAC avon Sabre today. All this talk of them has got me interested. To anyone who's built one, how does that resin fuselage go together? Looks a tad messy in the box (flash and warping in abundance). Might buy it one day, just to have a CAC sabre in my collection.

Darren You'll definitely need an enamel gloss black for polished aluminium and Chrome. If I was going to use the three shades you mentioned, I'd use a gloss black enamel (It's probably the best one to use for all shades). According to alclad, any type of paint will work as a primer for the regular shades(ie. not polished aluminium or chrome). And it doesn't really need to be a gloss black. As long as you have a layer of paint between the alclad and the plastic surface, it should be alright. A gloss black will make the finish a bit brighter though.

Who needs to be on topic eh?!!!! Battle of Midway GB? What's that?!!!!
-Daniel
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:12 AM
Darren - LOL! Like Daniel said... topic? we don't need no stinking topic!!! If you've noticed, that is the case anytime Jules, Sean and myself are involved...

I'd go for the gloss black enamel like Daniel mentioned. The other colors don't need it, but the polished aluminum does. On my test aircraft I plan to mask the body in half and do one side in gloss black enamel and the other in grey MM acrylic primer.. just so I can see for sure what the difference is...

One thing for sure... the first time you spray the alclad you'll be in love!!! truly a remarkable finish that the pics posted here using it, don't do justice to.. you have to see it with your own eyes!!
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: NSW, Australia
Posted by pingtang on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 7:33 AM
Got my first colour coat on the SBD just a few minutes ago. I sprayed the light grey on the bottom and all the other parts (gear doors, legs and other little fiddly bits). I plan on letting that dry over night, then spraying the blue grey tomorrow. Then I'm gonna try the Saltydog salt method of weathering. Gonna be fun, fun, fun!!!
-Daniel
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:03 AM
bump

Bob

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:08 AM
Great Daniel! Maybe you could do a step by step pic thing for us so we can see how it progresses. I too am interested in that way of doing it... hmm speaking of that I haven't seen Chris on in quite some time!

Bob - careful with that bump... it's all fun and games till someone gets their eye put out!! Wink [;)]
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:47 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900

Bob - careful with that bump... it's all fun and games till someone gets their eye put out!! Wink [;)]


Yeah, that's why I went with lower case letters......Approve [^]

Bob

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:04 PM
Laugh [(-D] good one Bob!
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: NSW, Australia
Posted by pingtang on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:27 PM
QUOTE: Great Daniel! Maybe you could do a step by step pic thing for us so we can see how it progresses. I too am interested in that way of doing it... hmm speaking of that I haven't seen Chris on in quite some time!


Too late Tom. It's all painted and ready to go. The effect didn't turn out as well as on saltydogs, you can barely see it. I'm happy with it though, it's a very subtle sort of effect. with a bit of pastel weathering it should look good.
-Daniel
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:06 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobbaily

QUOTE: Originally posted by tho9900

Bob - careful with that bump... it's all fun and games till someone gets their eye put out!! Wink [;)]


Yeah, that's why I went with lower case letters......Approve [^]


Good call Bob that shows great forethoughtThumbs Up [tup]

Pingy If it's all painted then show us a pic ehBig Smile [:D]Tongue [:P]
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: NSW, Australia
Posted by pingtang on Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:12 AM
Righto then Jules. It's got decals on it now, and I gave it a wash too. The first photo doesn't show the effect too well. When I sprayed it at first, it look really speckled, so I sprayed a mist of the lightest colour over top. It also toned down the post-shading a bit.


This photo is a close-up of the left wing, you can see the effect better here.


The salt technique could work really well if you got everything right. I think my colours weren't close enough to each other, and the positioning of the salt could have been better. I'll get it right next time.

Next up is a flat coat and some pastel weathering. Question, should the centre dive-flap interior be red too? I know the actual flap should be, but does the underside hidden by the flap need to be painted red too?
-Daniel
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:05 AM
Excellent work PingyThumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup] paint job looks great but shouldn't you have left the canopy clear instead of blueMischief [:-,]Mischief [:-,]
I'm no expert on the dauntless mate so i can't be sure but something is telling me that inside the flaps is red as well, but thats just conjecture, not 100% sure...
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:42 AM
Great job Daniel. Inspires me to do some work on mine this weekend.

Bob

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:50 AM
Daniel - the inside of the center flap is red, but the part of the body underneath the flap is the same color as the underside...

looks good! even more proof that it is a winning idea!!! Now I just need to find the sheet of paper where Saltydog laid out how he did it haha...
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: NSW, Australia
Posted by pingtang on Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:15 AM
Thanks lads. I appreciate the comments.

QUOTE: Excellent work Pingy paint job looks great but shouldn't you have left the canopy clear instead of blue


Ah bugger it.....I knew I forgot to do something. Has anyone got a spare canopy? I forgot to mask mine.......Tongue [:P]

QUOTE: looks good! even more proof that it is a winning idea!!! Now I just need to find the sheet of paper where Saltydog laid out how he did it haha.


Here ya go. I copied it too:

QUOTE: [/i]originally posted by saltydog[/i]
the weathering was a combo of airbrushing and pastel chalks. to achieve the splotchy paint job (which the pics really don't show up as well as in person), i mixed the base color, and then from the base color i mixed a shade or 2 lighter, and a shade or 2 darker mixture. first, i applied the darkest color to the entire top surface, and from the article i read in FSM mag last year, i stole the "salt" chipping idea, and i twisted it into my own evil plan!! i loaded up some tap water in my airbrush and sprayed my model, then i covered my entire model with table salt, i grouped it into big chunks, little chunks, down to the smallest grain with a small paint brush. when this dried, i sprayed the base color and removed the salt with a fresh water wash down. when this dried, i covered the model in water and salt once again, let it dry, and then spayed the lightes mixture, paying close attention to the center of panels and the upper most surfaces of the plane where the sun is beating down the longest and most. when this was dried, i didn't remove the salt yet, i loaded the darkest color back in the airbrush and ever so subltly followed along a few of the panel lines to darken them just a hair. then, removed the salt


And thanks for the info too. I thought that was how it should go, but I just wanted to make sure as there's nothing in the acc min instructions that said what colour it should be (or more likely, I didn't read them properly).

-Daniel
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:54 AM
No prob Daniel - I actually painted my first one with red uppers in that spot, and it wasn't till a LOT of research later I realized they were the color of the underside. Then somewhere in the instructions AFTER I determined that was the case I finally spotted it.. it's fairly well hidden!
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Alice Springs Australia
Posted by tweety1 on Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:09 AM
Daniel That looks superb mateThumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]

That salt chipping is reall effective when ya get the hang of it.
--Sean-- If you are driving at the speed of light and you turn on the headlights, what happens???
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:55 PM

BUMP


  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Friday, April 22, 2005 7:44 AM
Ouch! Glad I had my safety glasses on and ear plugs in for that one.....Big Smile [:D]

Bob

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Friday, April 22, 2005 8:30 AM
See what I mean Bob? One can't be too careful about that bump.... somepeople just recklessly come in here and do it without thinking.. ::rolling eyes at Jules:: We'll see how frisky he feels after he repairs that hole in the cieling he caused over there..
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Nashville, TN area
Posted by bobbaily on Friday, April 22, 2005 5:14 PM
Seeing whereas things are slow in this GB (an awlful lot of BUMPING going on), I'm going to grab the pastel chalk and weather the SBD-2. Still a lot of small parts to attach, mask & paint the canopy, etc. But maybe if I get take that first step......

Bob

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: SETX. USA
Posted by tho9900 on Friday, April 22, 2005 5:37 PM
hmmm.... you just gave me a great idea Bob... I am sitting here lamenting the lack of RLM 76 Lichtblau because I wont be able to paint my Ju87 till tomorrow.. I forgot I had a Zero for this build still pending...

gonna get to work tonight after all!!!
---Tom--- O' brave new world, That has such people in it!
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: NSW, Australia
Posted by pingtang on Friday, April 22, 2005 8:58 PM
I'm gonna spray a flat coat on my SBD today, then I'll do some pastel weathering later on. I got the insides of the flaps painted red last night. Once the flat coats are on, I'll be ready for final assembly. The fun bit will be painting that canopy.......
-Daniel
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