Panzer Aces GB January 2007 to May 31, 2008

Scott- Thanks for all the info on the Aces. Now I've got some more ideas for other builds I want to pursue. I also wanted to ask if you would update my build as Mobius' King Tiger not his Tiger I.

Needless to say, Mobius' Tiger II is almost complete . I still need to correct the turret camo I painted to reflect what I've seen in photos, add the Archer's Fine Transfer decals I ordered and replace the kit tracks with something else...then it's all washing and weathering.

-John

WHOOPIEE!  Ok, enough unbridled enthusium....I just won an item on eBay and I am ready to commit to an Ace-Michael Wittman-early Tiger-winter scheme.  Just picked up the early Tamiya kit (yeah, I know it's probably not accurate, but it was priced right) with Tamiya PE grills & Fruili treads.  All for the price of the Fruilis @ retail. Which leaves $$$ for a metal barrel & some more PE. 

Scott-can you please change my build accordingly?  Thanks

I know the feeling - it's certainly fun to win a bunch of stuff for pocket change. Last week I won the Tamiya FAMO & SdAh 116 and four Aber detail sets for it for $65 (worth over $200) and I want to start it NOW...unfortunately I don't think any Panzer Aces used the FAMO, and I have no other excuse with 14 projects already on my workbench

Good luck with your build - and remember that the picture of S07 with 80-something kill markings wasn't Wittmann's vehicle - it was a different Tiger painted exclusively for a propaganda shoot. His real mount was probably S03 or S04.

That Tamiya kit is still very nice - the only really bad parts (by today's standards) are the tracks and fenders, one of which you've already got covered.

Thanks Hermesminiatures-the kit comes with the S04 decal and Techmod also markets the same should the Tamiya decals be unuseable.  And then theres always Archer dry transfers or stencils....choices...choices...and congrats on your win on the bay.  And regarding the FAMO build, I'm sure that at least one Panzer Ace had his vehicle towed by a FAMO at some point-would make an interesting diorama.

From the 'for what it's worth' dept-I stumbled onto this site posted over in the auto forum-very helpful.  Just enter in your sort criteria, i.e., Tamiya Tiger 1/35, etc, and enter.  Then select a kit and more often than not you can review the instructions.  

 http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/plamo/

bobbaily wrote:

WHOOPIEE!  Ok, enough unbridled enthusium....I just won an item on eBay and I am ready to commit to an Ace-Michael Wittman-early Tiger-winter scheme.  Just picked up the early Tamiya kit (yeah, I know it's probably not accurate, but it was priced right) with Tamiya PE grills & Fruili treads.  All for the price of the Fruilis @ retail. Which leaves $$$ for a metal barrel & some more PE.  Scott-can you please change my build accordingly?  Thanks

You bet Bob, looking forward to watching your build. 

espins1 wrote:

bobbaily wrote: WHOOPIEE!  Ok, enough unbridled enthusium....I just won an item on eBay and I am ready to commit to an Ace-Michael Wittman-early Tiger-winter scheme.  Just picked up the early Tamiya kit (yeah, I know it's probably not accurate, but it was priced right) with Tamiya PE grills & Fruili treads.  All for the price of the Fruilis @ retail. Which leaves $$$ for a metal barrel & some more PE.  Scott-can you please change my build accordingly?  Thanks You bet Bob, looking forward to watching your build.

Thanks Scott.  You might want to make yourself comfortable....at the rate I'm going with current modeling projects and real life stuff, I probably won't get started until December at the earliest....

bobbaily wrote:

Thanks Scott.  You might want to make yourself comfortable....at the rate I'm going with current modeling projects and real life stuff, I probably won't get started until December at the earliest....

I'm in the same boat my friend.  Too many projects, too many responsibilities and never enough time....

Hi all,

I am returning to the hobby after about a year away, as well as probably a couple of years away from here.

For those interested in Willy Fey's vehicle, you may want to check this release out by Archer:

http://www.archertransfers.com/AR35259.html

The sheet makes just one vehicle, but it may help some here: 1.Kompanie, schwere SS Panzer Abt. 102, Normandy, June 1944 SS-Hauptscharführer Will Fey.

And for those unwilling to use dry transfers, Archer also make a decal conversion paper...

Apologies if this has already been covered here, but i am currently wading my way through the whole thread and it's taking quite a while (am currently on p5!). I may ask to join the group a little later - i have most of the gear for Hannes Muhlenkamp's befehls Panther A Late "RO2" from SS Pz Dv Wiking - but have just joined the Jagdgeschwader GB and don;t want to bite off more than i can chew.

Thanks for the info nmayhew. 

This GB goes on for a while yet so if you decide to join us we'd love to have you! 

Hermesminiatures wrote:

I know the feeling - it's certainly fun to win a bunch of stuff for pocket change. Last week I won the Tamiya FAMO & SdAh 116 and four Aber detail sets for it for $65 (worth over $200) and I want to start it NOW...unfortunately I don't think any Panzer Aces used the FAMO, and I have no other excuse with 14 projects already on my workbench Good luck with your build - and remember that the picture of S07 with 80-something kill markings wasn't Wittmann's vehicle - it was a different Tiger painted exclusively for a propaganda shoot. His real mount was probably S03 or S04. That Tamiya kit is still very nice - the only really bad parts (by today's standards) are the tracks and fenders, one of which you've already got covered.

hi,

the propaganda shots are of S04, not S07 (i have no idea which was Wittmann's "regular" vehicle.

for those building S04 in winter scheme, beware this was a befehls version, and so had extra radio mast, radio aerial tube / holder thingy on back of tank slotted be the feifel filters, and also had the co-axial MG mount sealed up.

i know all this because i spent 6 months or so making this kit in regualr production form (not befehls) and then asked around and found out my mistakes. if you are keen on an exact reproductioin, then you need to make all the befehls adjustments. Missing-Lynx is probably where you find all the hardcore "techies" who can advise on all that: best to do a search of that site first - if you just go in and ask something that's been asked and answered a hundred times over the responses are sometimes a bit shirty.

if you want those propaganda pics i can post them (also of S04 in summer scheme, without the abschuss ringen / kill rings), but i think they are fairly accessible on the net.

Back from vacation.  Received my eBay package-all is complete in the Tamiya Early Tiger and the Fruli tracks look really sweet.  Looking forward to this build.  Not sure if I want to tackle a winter camo scheme. Does anyone know if the S04 tank was without winter whitewash at any point?

 Kit Decals are provide for the following:

Tank S33, PzReg2 (Georg Lotzsch?)

Tank 213, sPzAbt 502, Russia, 1944

Tank 332 sPzAbt 503, Russia 1943

Tank S45 sPzAbt 101, Russia 1943

Does anyone know if any of the above tanks represent Panzer Aces?

Thanks

Good questions Bob.  When I get a chance I'll dig through my Tiger in Combat books and see what I can come up with.  Hopefully someone else will have some info too. 

Thanks Scott.  After thinking about it, I'm just not crazy about doing a whitewash camo scheme, along with doing the Wittman tank.  There seems to be so many different viewpoints on what tank he was commanding & when.  However, if none of the other options pan out (there are also a couple of Techmod Early Tiger decal sets) I'll probably do the Wittman S04 (or maybe the Kursk 1331).   I am looking forward to diving into the Tamiya kit...I can see a lot of German armour in my future....a lot of interesting vehicles & camo schemes...

Airplanes & pilots seem to be a lot easier to research though!

bobbaily wrote:

Tank 213, sPzAbt 502, Russia, 1944

I beleive that's Hans Bolter's mount. 

Thanks Hermesminatures.  Unfortunatly, Hans Bolter's Tiger has already been taken (I forget who).

I'm wondering at what time did the units on the Eastern Front applied the winter whitewash.  Based on this link

http://www.panzerace.net/english/pz_oob.asp?page=4

Wittman was in tank S21 prior to Jan 44.  I'm wondering if it was in the standard camo scheme less whitewash (and was that the base yellow or did was it a two or three color scheme). 

Anyone know or have any thoughts?

Thanks

Well, l I have been following this one with interest and reading every page. I have also exhausted every online source looking for any Panzer Ace who used one of the following Panthers:

3/Pz Rgt 12, 12th Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" Ardennes, 1944

Pz Rgt 27, 19th PzDiv, Warsaw, 1944?

Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1st Pz Div "LAH", Normandy, 1944.

I don't know if any of you guys have any sources in your hard copies that would mention any Aces that used panthers in these units, but if anyone could find one, I'd be thrilled. That way I could join this Group Build.

Thanks guys. I hope someone comes up with something.  

bobbaily wrote:

Back from vacation.  Received my eBay package-all is complete in the Tamiya Early Tiger and the Fruli tracks look really sweet.  Looking forward to this build.  Not sure if I want to tackle a winter camo scheme. Does anyone know if the S04 tank was without winter whitewash at any point?  Kit Decals are provide for the following: Tank S33, PzReg2 (Georg Lotzsch?) Tank 213, sPzAbt 502, Russia, 1944 Tank 332 sPzAbt 503, Russia 1943 Tank S45 sPzAbt 101, Russia 1943 Does anyone know if any of the above tanks represent Panzer Aces? Thanks

Bob- For what it's worth, Patrick Agte lists Unterscarfuhrer Herbert Stief as the Tank Commander (TC) of S45 in Michael Wittman and the Waffen SS Tiger Commanders of the Liebstandarte Vol.1. (Check out the bibliography on Page 1 for links to this set.) At this point in the game the 101st schwere SS Panzer wasn't really the 101st. They were still the 13th (Heavy) Company of the 1st SS Panzer Regiment. After Kursk, and with a partial redeployment to the Italian front, the S ## scheme replaced the 13## scheme. The 13th Company was eventually reformed as the 101st sSS Panzer in the Spring of 1944 in Belgium. Agte also lists Wittman in S21, CO Heinz Kling in S05, and Oberscarfuhrer Krohn, the Company HQ Squad Leader, in S04.

Hope this helps.

-John

the Postman wrote:

bobbaily wrote: Back from vacation.  Received my eBay package-all is complete in the Tamiya Early Tiger and the Fruli tracks look really sweet.  Looking forward to this build.  Not sure if I want to tackle a winter camo scheme. Does anyone know if the S04 tank was without winter whitewash at any point?  Kit Decals are provide for the following: Tank S33, PzReg2 (Georg Lotzsch?) Tank 213, sPzAbt 502, Russia, 1944 Tank 332 sPzAbt 503, Russia 1943 Tank S45 sPzAbt 101, Russia 1943 Does anyone know if any of the above tanks represent Panzer Aces? Thanks Bob- For what it's worth, Patrick Agte lists Unterscarfuhrer Herbert Stief as the Tank Commander (TC) of S45 in Michael Wittman and the Waffen SS Tiger Commanders of the Liebstandarte Vol.1. (Check out the bibliography on Page 1 for links to this set.) At this point in the game the 101st schwere SS Panzer wasn't really the 101st. They were still the 13th (Heavy) Company of the 1st SS Panzer Regiment. After Kursk, and with a partial redeployment to the Italian front, the S ## scheme replaced the 13## scheme. The 13th Company was eventually reformed as the 101st sSS Panzer in the Spring of 1944 in Belgium. Agte also lists Wittman in S21, CO Heinz Kling in S05, and Oberscarfuhrer Krohn, the Company HQ Squad Leader, in S04. Hope this helps. -John

John-Thanks.  Matches up some research that I've been doing.  Can't find much info on Herbert Stief, i.e., was he an 'Ace', etc.

Here is some OOB info I found on LAH that may be useful to some of you.  Herbert Steif served in vehicles numbered S45, 234.  Hopefully I can dig up some combat record info for you Bob.  I found the info below at this website. 

http://www.paulstiger1.co.uk/Leibstandarte_Order_of_Battle.htm 

 4th (Heavy) Company, SS Panzer Regiment Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler - 1/2/1943

13th (Heavy) Company, SS Panzer Regiment Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler - 5/7/1943

13th (Heavy) Company, SS Panzer Regiment Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler - 2/11/1943

501st (Heavy) SS Panzer Battalion - 16/12/1944

Duke Maddog wrote:

Well, l I have been following this one with interest and reading every page. I have also exhausted every online source looking for any Panzer Ace who used one of the following Panthers: 3/Pz Rgt 12, 12th Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" Ardennes, 1944 Pz Rgt 27, 19th PzDiv, Warsaw, 1944? Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1st Pz Div "LAH", Normandy, 1944.   I don't know if any of you guys have any sources in your hard copies that would mention any Aces that used panthers in these units, but if anyone could find one, I'd be thrilled. That way I could join this Group Build.   Thanks guys. I hope someone comes up with something.

I guess nobody found anything on Panthers in these units. Oh well, I guess you can't join them all.

Thanks to those who did try to help earlier.

Sheesh! I've been watching this thread for months now--it started a few days after Christmas, and still no builds posted!

C'mon guys! Quit sqwaukin' and start buildin!

Pretty interesting though, I must say!

Yeah, everybody! We can't start the Allied Armor Aces GB until this one is DONE.

I'll be starting very soon...got the Jaguar interior for my Carius Jagdtiger on eBay for $20, already have an aluminum barrel and PE set. I need to get some indy tracks to replace the poor ones in the kit, and I'll be set to go! 

Duke Maddog wrote:

Duke Maddog wrote: Well, l I have been following this one with interest and reading every page. I have also exhausted every online source looking for any Panzer Ace who used one of the following Panthers: 3/Pz Rgt 12, 12th Pz Div "Hitlerjugend" Ardennes, 1944 Pz Rgt 27, 19th PzDiv, Warsaw, 1944? Pz Abt 1, Pz Rgt 1, 1st Pz Div "LAH", Normandy, 1944.   I don't know if any of you guys have any sources in your hard copies that would mention any Aces that used panthers in these units, but if anyone could find one, I'd be thrilled. That way I could join this Group Build.   Thanks guys. I hope someone comes up with something.       I guess nobody found anything on Panthers in these units. Oh well, I guess you can't join them all.   Thanks to those who did try to help earlier.

Duke-I feel your frustration. I spent a lot of time trying to find a Panther Ace.  The only one that has a lot of info on the web seems to be Ernst Barkmann, 2nd SS Panzer Div. "Das Reich".  Would building his Ardennes Panther be an option?

Unfortunately no Bob, but thanks. The Dragon model I have only comes with the markings for the abovementioned tanks. This is also the only Panther model I have. I am building Dragon's Tiger I mid-production with zimm, but there are no markings for Ace vehicles and so I haven't submitted that one for this build. Beskides, almost everyone here is building Tigers, so I wanted a different vehicle. Aftermarket decals are beyond reach right now. I have no job, no car, no credit card and what little money we have must go to essentials. All I can do is build with whatever is on my bench right now. 

I find it hard to believe that two very active units("Hitlerjugend" and "LAH") being equipped with the Panther tank more numerously than the Tiger,  had no Tank Ace of note in command of a Panther at all! Something is SERIOUSLY wrong here!

Maybe it's for the best. I can't find that kit anymore after all. It's lost in my stash somewhere.....  

Duke Maddog wrote:

Unfortunately no Bob, but thanks. The Dragon model I have only comes with the markings for the abovementioned tanks. This is also the only Panther model I have. I am building Dragon's Tiger I mid-production with zimm, but there are no markings for Ace vehicles and so I haven't submitted that one for this build. Beskides, almost everyone here is building Tigers, so I wanted a different vehicle. Aftermarket decals are beyond reach right now. I have no job, no car, no credit card and what little money we have must go to essentials. All I can do is build with whatever is on my bench right now.    I find it hard to believe that two very active units("Hitlerjugend" and "LAH") being equipped with the Panther tank more numerously than the Tiger,  had no Tank Ace of note in command of a Panther at all! Something is SERIOUSLY wrong here!   Maybe it's for the best. I can't find that kit anymore after all. It's lost in my stash somewhere.....

I'm sure there were, but the hard part is the lack of documentation.....

I'm going to give my 12ss book another scan Duke, if I ever get some extra free time.