Panzer Aces GB January 2007 to May 31, 2008

OK guys, just to get you inspired, I just wanted to post you a photo of my Ernst Barkmann #424 Panther--even though I'm not part of this build, I thought since you're all on the subject...It's the Italeri Panther A with the plastic zimmerit. The numbers are hand-painted. That's "the man" himself there, although I can't remember who makes him--got him from Squadron...

BTW, why wouldn't Barkman be considered an "Ace"? Everywhere I seem to read about him, they talk like he was a god...? 

the doog wrote:

OK guys, just to get you inspired, I just wanted to post you a photo of my Ernst Barkmann #424 Panther--even though I'm not part of this build, I thought since you're all on the subject...It's the Italeri Panther A with the plastic zimmerit. The numbers are hand-painted. That's "the man" himself there, although I can't remember who makes him--got him from Squadron... BTW, why wouldn't Barkman be considered an "Ace"? Everywhere I seem to read about him, they talk like he was a god...?

Barkman is totally a Panzer Ace. 

Nice work on the Italeri Panther A!  I built that same kit earlier this year for the first Italeri GB.

Doog & Scott-nice work.  I need to add a Panther to the collection sometime....but not soon!

Duke-check this out  for Max Wunsche-think he fits into one of the divisions you listed.  Now getting a turret number may be another story, but if there are no records, who is to say that you are wrong...i.e., artistic license....

http://home.att.net/~SSPzHJ/Photos.html

Duke Maddog wrote:

I am building Dragon's Tiger I mid-production with zimm, but there are no markings for Ace vehicles and so I haven't submitted that one for this build. Beskides, almost everyone here is building Tigers, so I wanted a different vehicle. Aftermarket decals are beyond reach right now.

Duke- If you really want to build the Tiger, you could probably use Wittman, Kling, Egger, or von Westerhagen.  I'm not entirely sure about Staudegger, Woll or Warmbrunn without looking back @ my reference material. As far as lack of decals goes, you could paint your own markings, or maybe between all of us we could put a set together. This is a Group Build after all nudge, nudge.

Didn't Kurt Knipsel serve in a Panther at one point??

I've ordered a set of Fruils for Mobius' Tiger II, since I managed to break one of the rubber band tracks while streching it out . I guess I just don't know my own strength . I still need to sit down with it and correct my camo scheme a little, but I've been busy with a Jadgtiger. I found a picture of the LH side of 204. I still haven't found any pics that really show the lower hull, front and rear plates well. I've given up on finding a top down shot. Yes, Virginia, I've used a little creative license. I want to wait to take photos until I get the paint "right", then I can put on the few markings and add the flat coat. Maybe, I'll get the chance this weekend. It's been hotter than and the humidity certainly isn't helping...so I'm proactively avoiding any outside work!

TTFN

-John  

Bob, that source looks good. I think I'll try to follow that possibility. Any followup research that you guys have in your offline sources wil help.

Hermesminiatures, I am willing to do that, as long as the vehicle has Zimm. This one has it molded in place. I just can't order anything extra anymore. We just bought me a truck and I have not been working for weeks, so money is so scarce right now that we'll be shopping at the Food Bank for free food just to eat. I may be able to scrape up some decal/markings among the numerous spares I have, if there is a good color/marking reference for a Panther G early used by an Ace. I'll keep looking. Bob's possibility could also pan out into something.

John, I was actually trying to avoid building a Tiger for this Group Build because many people already were building one. I already have Wittman's last ride on my shelf alread. I completed that last year. I have this extra Panther that I couldn't get motivated to build so I was hoping to add it to this Group Build to give me that motivation. 

Thanks for the help and encouragement guys, I do appreciate it. I'll be looking more deeplpy to see what options I have for this. Thanks again. 

hi,

here are pics of S04 in Summer 43 which were requested a few days back, Sorry for the delay...

and here are the famous propaganda pics of Wittmann, Woll and co, taken in Jan 44. Note befehls features of the tank such as no co-axial mg...

enjoy...

Is it too late to get in on the GB with my older Tamiya Tiger kit? ...I just started it a couple of weeks ago.

9 Toe Tanker wrote:

Is it too late to get in on the GB with my older Tamiya Tiger kit? ...I just started it a couple of weeks ago.

It's never to late.    Which ace are you going to go with?

espins1 wrote:

9 Toe Tanker wrote: Is it too late to get in on the GB with my older Tamiya Tiger kit? ...I just started it a couple of weeks ago. It's never to late.    Which ace are you going to go with?

Thanks Espins1 ...I guess now its time for some research on which one I can find that used a late model Tiger and type of camo scheme etc.

Thanks again.

TJ.

Anyone have any info on Grossduetchlands' Hayzinth Graf Strachwitz campaign record? According to how many tanks he destroyed? I know he is a Knights Cross winner with swords oakleaves and diamonds but can find no info other than a pic of him commanding a PZ III.

Although I found info on him commanding a Tiger at the battle of Riga where he and three other Tigers destroyed 105 Russian Tanks in less than an hour.

In that case I'd have to build my Early model Tamiya Tiger I have in the closet.

I'm still searching for an ace to model.

Thanks.

TJ.

Here are some links that should give you the info you're looking for.  Be careful on the spelling of his name, Oberst Hyazinth Graf Strachwitz von Gross-Zauche und Camminetz.  

 

http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/strach.htm

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1_in_action.htm

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen11.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyazinth_Graf_Strachwitz_von_Gross-Zauche_und_Camminetz

http://www.blowtorchscenarios.com/The%20Panzer%20Counts%20Ostfront/The%20Panzer%20Count%20Biography.htm

Thanks for the info Espins1...wow ...looks like he used several vehicles during the war...now I just have to pick one to go with a unit and vehicle number, not to mention camo scheme...wow

...I see he was the commander of the 3rd batallion of GD's Tiger unit at the begining of March 1943. Anyone have info on this vehicle or any of the other vehicles that he may have commanded during the war?...all info is welcome.

Thank you kindly for all your help.

Best Regards.

TJ

espins1 wrote:

Here are some links that should give you the info you're looking for.  Be careful on the spelling of his name, Oberst Hyazinth Graf Strachwitz von Gross-Zauche und Camminetz.     http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/strach.htm http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1_in_action.htm http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen11.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyazinth_Graf_Strachwitz_von_Gross-Zauche_und_Camminetz http://www.blowtorchscenarios.com/The%20Panzer%20Counts%20Ostfront/The%20Panzer%20Count%20Biography.htm

Nice work Scott.  A lot of great info there.  I need to re-read and see if he had an Early Tiger in his career.....then the problem of finding the turret numbers.  I think that is the most frustrating part of the process.  That and finding the correct markings...

Heck Bob...I'm just playing with ya'... I haven't made up my mind what to build yet.

I oughta' just go with the late version Tiger I I've been working on but that Tamiya early Tiger I in my closet is screaming "Graf Strachwitz!" at me....but the other kits in my closet are screaming "Build us!", "Build us!",  "Build us!" ..."You loved us when you bought us!", "Build us!" 

LOL! I'm flexible and have plenty of kits to choose from....actually...too dang many

Scott-quick question-does the Otto Carius book "Tigers in the Mud" contain Order of Battle info, i.e., turret numbers linked to commanders?  If so, I might have to add it to my library.

Thanks

bobbaily wrote:

Scott-quick question-does the Otto Carius book "Tigers in the Mud" contain Order of Battle info, i.e., turret numbers linked to commanders?  If so, I might have to add it to my library. Thanks

I'll take a peak at it when I get home tonight Bob. 

Do you have the Tigers in Combat (I & II) books?

No, but I did pick up the Stackpole Military History Series "Michael Wittmann and the Waffen SS Tiger Commanders of the Leibstandarte in WWII", Vol. One last week.  Now I just have to find time to read it! 

-edit-I'm finding that I'm enjoying researching & learning more about these men & their character than building the actual model.  Again, the frustrating thing is the inability to match up tank commanders to turret numbers, camo schemes, version of equipment, etc.  However, I guess without documentation, one can claim 'creative license'...

bobbaily wrote:

No, but I did pick up the Stackpole Military History Series "Michael Wittmann and the Waffen SS Tiger Commanders of the Leibstandarte in WWII", Vol. One last week.  Now I just have to find time to read it!  -edit-I'm finding that I'm enjoying researching & learning more about these men & their character than building the actual model.  Again, the frustrating thing is the inability to match up tank commanders to turret numbers, camo schemes, version of equipment, etc.  However, I guess without documentation, one can claim 'creative license'...

I agree Bob.  Reading Panzer Aces opened me up to a whole new area of historical research and interest.  Now I just can't get enough of that sort of thing!  That was one of the main reasons we started this GB... we knew there had to be others that felt the same way we did.  Fun stuff!

I looked through Tigers in the Mud.  There isn't any direct OOB information, but there is some into that may prove useful to you, especially regarding individual actions and dispositions.  There is some great info in Tigers in the Mud I.  PM inbound......

Scott-I have a request.  Please change my build to Albert Kerscher's early Tiger -based on some quick research, he was in turret number 213, sPzAbt 502.  I think a mono-tone paint scheme will be better matched to my skill level than trying to tackle a winter whitewash scheme (and trying to do it justice).

Thanks and if the above info is incorrect, please let me know.

bobbaily wrote:

Scott-I have a request.  Please change my build to Albert Kerscher's early Tiger -based on some quick research, he was in turret number 213, sPzAbt 502.  I think a mono-tone paint scheme will be better matched to my skill level than trying to tackle a winter whitewash scheme (and trying to do it justice). Thanks and if the above info is incorrect, please let me know.

You bet Bob, I'll make the change now.

Early Tiger 213 was Carius' first vehicle, as shown very plainly in Tigers in the Mud. Carius' 217 was a mid production Tiger with zimmerit that he used at Maliniva. I think 217 is the number you want for Kerscher's early Tiger. 

Thanks Jonathan.  Even more reason for me to pick up "Tigers in the Mud"  Did an Amazon 'look inside' search for Kerscher and there were three pages of references/mentions.  Should be a good start for research.

Echelon makes a sheet that has both Carius' early number & 217 for his mid.  Appears to be the same size so I think I could use that option.  Or find the correct Archer sheet and do the dry rub thing.  That's an easy fix....he says, nervously.....

Thanks again for pointing that the numbering concern.

The early Tigers of sPzAbt 502 used 5" black lettering directly behind and below the trunnion pin on the turret. The lettering of the later zimmed mid Tigers was white, around 8" numerals, and painted even with the trunnion pin about a foot back. So...looks like you'll be needing some black numbers.

Also, the early Tigers had rather large crosses mounted over the rearmost fender section on the side armor. I'll scan some pics from Tigers in the Mud later today - or there might be some pics earlier in this thread. 

Here is the Echelon sheet that I was refering to

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/echelon/ech_axt351005.htm

Thought I could take the '217' and use it. 

However, the 217 doesn't appear to be large enough, or at least as large as the '213', Carius' early number. Hard to tell looking at the photo.  Definitely not as bold.   And the Archer sheets for sPzAbt502 don't have a sheet with a solid '7'.  The sPzAbt 502 sheets that have the '7' have it as larger than the '21'.  Need to sort thru all the Archer offerings.  Might have to resort to painting numbers....