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Panzer Aces GB January 2007 to May 31, 2008

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Sunday, January 7, 2007 7:47 PM
 psychoblue23 wrote:
 Comet wrote:

Cant wait for the Allied Aces GB Big Smile [:D]

Oh man that will be cool.. hopefully its AFTER this one tho haha.. Im swamped as it is.. 1 more GB would kill me.

heh heh, I know the feeling.  We'll definately to an Allied armor GB later this year.  Cool [8D]

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Sunday, January 7, 2007 7:15 PM
 Comet wrote:

Cant wait for the Allied Aces GB Big Smile [:D]

Oh man that will be cool.. hopefully its AFTER this one tho haha.. Im swamped as it is.. 1 more GB would kill me.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 7, 2007 6:55 PM

 Hermesminiatures wrote:
At least as far as his book on Michael Wittmann goes Restayn invented nearly the whole story. He portrays Wittmann as using 222 while an obvious and very common photo shows very plainly that is impossible, because 222 is seen in perfect running order towing the damaged 231 immediately after the battle. I have heard on other forums, especially missing lynx, that Restayn does this in all his books. While there is some great info there, don't trust something he says if it conflicts with multiple alternate accounts.

I know what your saying,that's why I usually build Commonwealth armour because I just have to tap up my grandad for info who was a tanker from 1937>1949.Nothing like getting your information straight from the horses mouth.

Cant wait for the Allied Aces GB Big Smile [:D]

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Sunday, January 7, 2007 5:30 PM

heres an interesting link with pictures of German WWII stuff. Not a whole lot of info, on the kits used jsut real basic. But it gives some nice color photos. There are 4 diff panth D's at kursk in that list but none that mention anything abour Barkmann.. nor have the same markings.. the search continues...

http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/gallery_german.htm

 *update*

I jsut realized that witht he echelon decal kit comes this nifty picture of many diff tanks.. so that should help with the paint scheme as well as which numbers.. and there all tanks from kursk. Yay for me..

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Sunday, January 7, 2007 5:17 PM

OK, so far this is what I've been able to research on my Panzer Ace, but I can't verify how accurate it is:

Leutnant Freiherr Von Rosen was in command of 3 Kompanie schwere Panzer Abteilung 503 during the Normandy campaign.  That battalion was equipped with the latest Tigers, but only the battalion staff and 1 Kompanie had Tiger IIs.  The rest of the battalion still used the Tiger Is.  I'm not absolutely sure Von Rosen had a T II unless he was considered part of the battalion staff since he was a company commander.  If so then a T II is appropriate.  Apparently these Tiger IIs (Porsche) were the "late" style with a step on the 88mm gun barrel.  My DML kit is the Premium Edition and comes with the "early" style gun barrel without the step, so looks like an AM replacement is necessary.  Aber has a really nice one available, # 35 L-15

Looks like this is the emblem for sPzAbt 503

The Tiger IIs of sPzAbt 503 all had zimmerit applied so I've got to decide how I want to tackle this.  I know I have 3 choices:  hand applied with some tool and epoxy putty, apply with hot knife, or use Cavalier AM.  I'd like your input here as my confidence level with any of these methods isn't very high.  This is the only part of the build that worries me!!  After that the only other aspect that concerns me is paint scheme and markings.  Hopefully my research mat'l will clear this up.

I'll post more info as soon as I can find some!

 

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Sunday, January 7, 2007 4:50 PM
 psychoblue23 wrote:

The lsit I was gonna put together would be for the echelon decals. Not for myself.. I already know which decals I will be ordering. This would be so I can carry that line in the hobbytownUSA I work at. I actually got the list pretty much finished. Once Its complete I will post it up here since it seems theres a quite a few guys who know there stuff.\

I deff dont need any aftermarket stuff for my kit. Its overwhelming all the stuff it has already. I jsut want to increase the inventory here at work so I can help out the modeling comunity. I hate hearing from customers they have to go online all the time to find the stuff there looking for. But we only have so much room, and can only take budget so high.

As for my car, it was recovered this morning. It was left on the freeway a few miles from my house. The took my sparco steering wheel, seat shift knob. My headlight pieces, stereo, misc. interior pieces. My brand new 3in Skunk2 exhaust.. I made the mistake of leaving my 10 fav cd;'s in there also.. so those are gone.. about $300 dollers in snap on tools... I think thats it.

About $2000 dollers worth of parts and other stuff. Liability sucks.. but so does being a broke fulltime student living on my own making $8/hr in the Bay.

 

Sorry about your loss. At least your car was recovered, that's something. 

So its a decal list.  Doubt if I can be of help.  I have an Echelon set coming in for my Panzer IV ausf H, but don't know what else they carry.  I really like that you're trying to add AM items to your store's shelf stock.  I hope the word spreads about that so more modelers can go the store instead of going online.

 

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Sunday, January 7, 2007 2:51 PM

The lsit I was gonna put together would be for the echelon decals. Not for myself.. I already know which decals I will be ordering. This would be so I can carry that line in the hobbytownUSA I work at. I actually got the list pretty much finished. Once Its complete I will post it up here since it seems theres a quite a few guys who know there stuff.\

I deff dont need any aftermarket stuff for my kit. Its overwhelming all the stuff it has already. I jsut want to increase the inventory here at work so I can help out the modeling comunity. I hate hearing from customers they have to go online all the time to find the stuff there looking for. But we only have so much room, and can only take budget so high.

As for my car, it was recovered this morning. It was left on the freeway a few miles from my house. The took my sparco steering wheel, seat shift knob. My headlight pieces, stereo, misc. interior pieces. My brand new 3in Skunk2 exhaust.. I made the mistake of leaving my 10 fav cd;'s in there also.. so those are gone.. about $300 dollers in snap on tools... I think thats it.

About $2000 dollers worth of parts and other stuff. Liability sucks.. but so does being a broke fulltime student living on my own making $8/hr in the Bay.

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Sunday, January 7, 2007 1:06 PM
 psychoblue23 wrote:
 bufflehead wrote:
 psychoblue23 wrote:
 bufflehead wrote:
  

psychoblue23, do you work at a hobby store in Fremont, CA?  If so, I think I may have met you during one of my visits there!

HobbyTownUSA in Fremont!

Yep, that's the one!  I haven't stopped by there recently but I'll try to soon.  Other than a hobby store in Campbell your shop is the only one in the Bay Area that carries more than a few  AM parts.   I didn't know you carried any Echelon decals for armor, but I did buy some nice Archer Fine Transfers for my Panther A.  Keep up the good work there! 

Deff stop by soon! Just ask for James Im here most of the time haha nights mostly. We dont actually CARRY echelon, but there stuff is in my database so that means I can easily order them. If any of you guys have spare time and want to help me put together a decent list of what to order haha that would be sweeet.

On a more depressing note.. I have eyt to make any major progress on my build. I woke up early this morning to get a decent start before I had to come to work, when I went to my car to grab something I realized it had been stolen :( Soo thats what I had to waste my beautiful saturday morning on. At least I am off at 7 so I might get a few hours in before bedtime.

James

Very sorry to hear about your car James.Sad [:(]  I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping your car is recovered!  Don't worry about starting your build, we've all got quite a bit of time to work on them.  I can't even start doing research until my books arrive from Amazon. 

What kind of list are you looking for?  Is it for aftermarket parts?  Your DML Premium Edition Panther D should be quite complete, the only thing you would need is to determine the paint scheme and markings.  Unless you really want AM parts, nothing wrong with that!  If you're going to do the welded buckets on the intakes, then I'm sure the other members of this GB can advise you, I have no idea how to do buckets!! Confused [%-)]

Good luck with everything James!

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Sunday, January 7, 2007 12:35 AM

1:30 (AM) and still up...so if this cuntains erors im just tired.

When building armor, you want to have all the parts that will receive the base dark yellow and camo in thier final locations while you paint. That includes all hatches and PE. However, leave the upper hull and tracks loose otherwise you'll have one heck of a time trying to paint the tracks if you can't paint them and the road wheels seperately. I usually seperate the hull and turret for basic painting and then just check every once in a while to be sure my camo still lines up. Glue everything together before you start weathering, except where you won;t be able ot get to the tracks if you do that, then leave the uper hull loose.

Sorry to hear about your car, hope everything gets worked out soon Sad [:(]Smile [:)]

 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Saturday, January 6, 2007 10:56 PM
 espins1 wrote:
 psychoblue23 wrote:

On a more depressing note.. I have eyt to make any major progress on my build. I woke up early this morning to get a decent start before I had to come to work, when I went to my car to grab something I realized it had been stolen :( Soo thats what I had to waste my beautiful saturday morning on. At least I am off at 7 so I might get a few hours in before bedtime.

James

What?  Your car was stolen?  Or your kit?  Sad [:(] Either way that's a total bummer, very sorry to hear that James. 

Well I wish it was my kit haha. Cuz that is easily replacable. Unfortunately my car was stolen laaate last ngiht.. sometime after 2 am. Not so easy to replace. Work was the worse today.. It was sow then busy slow then busy so every hour or so it slowed down, i had to rethink all that had happened this morning. Now I am at home and all I keep thinking about is whats next? My car wasnt even that great. Beat up primered and 220K miles. I mean whats to stop them from jsut breaking in our house... Sometimes I hate populated areas... anyways.. enough depressing stuff...

I got the model washed and dried at least. I have been unable to sit still so I cleaned up my desk area and reorginized all my supplies. It looks much better and will make building much easier. All I need is one more small table for some surface area and il be set.

As this is my first tank I am confused as how to start. Normally with autos, I just assemble all the body pieces and paint. is ti the same for tyhe tank? Start with lower half then upper? Do I attatch all the PE pieces then primer? Then Paint... ahh im jsut a wreck tonight. Prolly call it a night and get soem rest...

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Saturday, January 6, 2007 10:23 PM
 espins1 wrote:
 psychoblue23 wrote:

On a more depressing note.. I have eyt to make any major progress on my build. I woke up early this morning to get a decent start before I had to come to work, when I went to my car to grab something I realized it had been stolen :( Soo thats what I had to waste my beautiful saturday morning on. At least I am off at 7 so I might get a few hours in before bedtime.

James

What?  Your car was stolen?  Or your kit?  Sad [:(] Either way that's a total bummer, very sorry to hear that James. 

Man that really blows!!! Sad [:(]

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Saturday, January 6, 2007 8:41 PM
 psychoblue23 wrote:

On a more depressing note.. I have eyt to make any major progress on my build. I woke up early this morning to get a decent start before I had to come to work, when I went to my car to grab something I realized it had been stolen :( Soo thats what I had to waste my beautiful saturday morning on. At least I am off at 7 so I might get a few hours in before bedtime.

James

What?  Your car was stolen?  Or your kit?  Sad [:(] Either way that's a total bummer, very sorry to hear that James. 

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Saturday, January 6, 2007 7:23 PM
 bufflehead wrote:
 psychoblue23 wrote:
 bufflehead wrote:
  

psychoblue23, do you work at a hobby store in Fremont, CA?  If so, I think I may have met you during one of my visits there!

HobbyTownUSA in Fremont!

Yep, that's the one!  I haven't stopped by there recently but I'll try to soon.  Other than a hobby store in Campbell your shop is the only one in the Bay Area that carries more than a few  AM parts.   I didn't know you carried any Echelon decals for armor, but I did buy some nice Archer Fine Transfers for my Panther A.  Keep up the good work there! 

Deff stop by soon! Just ask for James Im here most of the time haha nights mostly. We dont actually CARRY echelon, but there stuff is in my database so that means I can easily order them. If any of you guys have spare time and want to help me put together a decent list of what to order haha that would be sweeet.

On a more depressing note.. I have eyt to make any major progress on my build. I woke up early this morning to get a decent start before I had to come to work, when I went to my car to grab something I realized it had been stolen :( Soo thats what I had to waste my beautiful saturday morning on. At least I am off at 7 so I might get a few hours in before bedtime.

James

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Saturday, January 6, 2007 12:45 PM

bufflehead, just to echo some of your sentiments, I'm really glad how this GB is coming together.  This is exactly what I was hoping it would be.  Thanks for everyone's contributions so far.  Don't hesitate to ask for info or anything else you might need.  I also encourage those of you doing research to add posts relating information about your particular ace and his exploits or any other information you have regarding the men and machines. 

Great stuff guys!  Cool [8D] Big Smile [:D]

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Saturday, January 6, 2007 12:44 PM
 psychoblue23 wrote:
 bufflehead wrote:
  

psychoblue23, do you work at a hobby store in Fremont, CA?  If so, I think I may have met you during one of my visits there!

HobbyTownUSA in Fremont!

Yep, that's the one!  I haven't stopped by there recently but I'll try to soon.  Other than a hobby store in Campbell your shop is the only one in the Bay Area that carries more than a few  AM parts.   I didn't know you carried any Echelon decals for armor, but I did buy some nice Archer Fine Transfers for my Panther A.  Keep up the good work there! 

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Saturday, January 6, 2007 12:00 PM
 bufflehead wrote:
  

psychoblue23, do you work at a hobby store in Fremont, CA?  If so, I think I may have met you during one of my visits there!

HobbyTownUSA in Fremont!

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Saturday, January 6, 2007 2:54 AM

espins1 and Hermesminiatures, thanks for clearing up the Ace question I had!  I may also do a Panzer IV for this GB if I can find enough info.  Heck I might even do a Panther....I luv German armor!!  This GB has already given me more knowledge & insight into the brave crews of the panzers. 

Hermes, thanks for the heads up on Vallejo Model Air and your Tamiya color tips.  I just bought a few bottles of VMA and was planning on using them on my King Tiger, but now I have doubts.  The glossiness doesn't bother me as much as the color accuracy you reported.  Needless to say I will probably stick with tried & true Tamiya! 

psychoblue23, do you work at a hobby store in Fremont, CA?  If so, I think I may have met you during one of my visits there!

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Friday, January 5, 2007 10:31 PM
Yeah, my usual highlight colors on those Tamiya colors are 60/40 Dark Yellow/White on Dark yellow, JA Green on Field gray, and 80/20 NATO brown/White on Red Brown. An alternate method is to paint the normal camo with Tamiya colors thinned with 25% rubbing alcohol, which will lighten the paint because of extra "flatness", then do the lacquer overcoat which will somewhat darken it, and then highlight with the original colors. I did that on my King Tiger and it looked better than the usual method.

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Friday, January 5, 2007 8:42 PM
 Hermesminiatures wrote:

There is a big difference - no matter how you thin it normal Vallejo is very runny if you airbrush it. It has absolutely no bite, which is great for figures but awful for airbrushing. Vallejo air is thinner, has more glycol in it, and dries to an annoying glossy finish. Besides the Vallejo German Armor colors being the worst set I have seen as far as color accuracy.

Personally I would go with Tamiya's colors, German Grey XF-63 for Panzer Schwartzgrau 1939, Dark Yellow XF-60 for Panzer Dunkelgelb 1943, J.A. Green XF-13  or Field Grey XF-65 for Panzer Olivegrun 1943, Red Brown XF-64 for Panzer Schokoladenbrun 1943, and hull red XF-9 with a touch of German grey for red primer. 

Yaaa I was planning on it.. but the green highlights they suggested were that Vallejo color. Sooo yea I guess I should replace the vallejo green with the J.A. green..

thx hermes

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Friday, January 5, 2007 8:19 PM

There is a big difference - no matter how you thin it normal Vallejo is very runny if you airbrush it. It has absolutely no bite, which is great for figures but awful for airbrushing. Vallejo air is thinner, has more glycol in it, and dries to an annoying glossy finish. Besides the Vallejo German Armor colors being the worst set I have seen as far as color accuracy.

Personally I would go with Tamiya's colors, German Grey XF-63 for Panzer Schwartzgrau 1939, Dark Yellow XF-60 for Panzer Dunkelgelb 1943, J.A. Green XF-13  or Field Grey XF-65 for Panzer Olivegrun 1943, Red Brown XF-64 for Panzer Schokoladenbrun 1943, and hull red XF-9 with a touch of German grey for red primer. 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Friday, January 5, 2007 6:58 PM

Thx for that link Lethal In fit of rage of having to pay full price I double checked my inventory here at work and realized we DO carry Echelon I was just had it mispelled ^_^ Yay for 40% off.

Another quick question tho. Im using Osprey's "Modeling The Panther Tank" as a reference and it mentions a Vallejo Model Air Panzer Green (096) as one of the colors. I carry Vallejo but not Vallejo maodel Air? Is there a difference? I mean I have a huge rack of vallejo paint and nothing that is panzer olive green?

James

  • Member since
    January 2005
Posted by Lethal19 on Friday, January 5, 2007 4:59 PM
 psychoblue23 wrote:
 espins1 wrote:

Me personally, being less of a stickler on rules and more interested in the history and experiences of all these brave men, am totally ok with building a tank they served with at an earlier time. 

Not unlike building Adolph Galland's first Bf 109 during the Spanish Civil War, for example.  It was one of the planes he flew before he was an Ace, it is instantly recognizable and is a part of what made him who he was. 

So from my perspective, it's totally ok.  A tank is more or less successful because of all of the efforts of the commander and crew.  I hesitate to always give the credit to just the commander as the gunner has to have quick and accurate marksmanship, the loader quick, the driver has to be in sync with the commander and gunner etc.  My 2 cents [2c]

Thats good to hear... it took me a week to figure out which kit and which Ace to use haha. Im still looking for the proper decals. I knwo archer and echelon have them.. just gotta find them. I only carry archer. But dont have anything for Barkmann.

 

Echelon has Barkmanns decals and you can find them here 

  • Member since
    April 2006
Posted by psychoblue23 on Friday, January 5, 2007 3:38 PM
 espins1 wrote:

Me personally, being less of a stickler on rules and more interested in the history and experiences of all these brave men, am totally ok with building a tank they served with at an earlier time. 

Not unlike building Adolph Galland's first Bf 109 during the Spanish Civil War, for example.  It was one of the planes he flew before he was an Ace, it is instantly recognizable and is a part of what made him who he was. 

So from my perspective, it's totally ok.  A tank is more or less successful because of all of the efforts of the commander and crew.  I hesitate to always give the credit to just the commander as the gunner has to have quick and accurate marksmanship, the loader quick, the driver has to be in sync with the commander and gunner etc.  My 2 cents [2c]

Thats good to hear... it took me a week to figure out which kit and which Ace to use haha. Im still looking for the proper decals. I knwo archer and echelon have them.. just gotta find them. I only carry archer. But dont have anything for Barkmann.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Friday, January 5, 2007 1:36 PM

I came across this photo while researching the Nashorn (Nuts and Bolts #14 Nashorn, excellent Nashorn reference which I highly recommend if you're interested.  It's a bit hard to find, but I managed to find a new one on e-bay for about $45).

I love how this photo illustrates in one shot the variances in German camouflage, even among tanks in the same platoon.  Look at #231 on the right, looks like a very hastily (or lazily Wink [;)])done series of 3 wavy lines, as compared to the other two Nashorns who's camo patterns look more like what we'd expect for the time peried, although they are both very different as well.

So, the point I'm trying to convey here is that the German camouflage was mostly done in the field, with loos guidelines.  It was up to the individuals that were spraying, brushing or slopping on the paint with whatever means or tools available to paint the camo as they saw fit.  This makes for an incredible variety in paint schemes.  Whistling [:-^] 

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Friday, January 5, 2007 1:19 PM

Very informative text on Leon Degrelle.

http://www.barnesreview.org/degrelle2.htm

 I didn't know he was excommunicated by the Pope!

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Friday, January 5, 2007 1:12 PM
 espins1 wrote:

So from my perspective, it's totally ok.  I tank is more or less successful because of all of the efforts of the commander and crew.  I hesitate to always give the credit to just the commander as the gunner has to have quick and accurate marksmanship, the loader quick, the driver has to be in sync with the commander and gunner etc.  My 2 cents [2c]

Sign - Ditto [#ditto]    It's team work

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Friday, January 5, 2007 12:56 PM

Me personally, being less of a stickler on rules and more interested in the history and experiences of all these brave men, am totally ok with building a tank they served with at an earlier time. 

Not unlike building Adolph Galland's first Bf 109 during the Spanish Civil War, for example.  It was one of the planes he flew before he was an Ace, it is instantly recognizable and is a part of what made him who he was. 

So from my perspective, it's totally ok.  A tank is more or less successful because of all of the efforts of the commander and crew.  I hesitate to always give the credit to just the commander as the gunner has to have quick and accurate marksmanship, the loader quick, the driver has to be in sync with the commander and gunner etc.  My 2 cents [2c]

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Friday, January 5, 2007 9:01 AM

This has always been debated, because even Carius, Wittmann and Knispel each scored at least 1/4 of their total as a gunner. And what happens in the situation of Bobby Woll, who scored nearly 100 kills as Wittmann's gunner, and then went on to 80 of his own as a commander? Do the kills belong to Wittmann or to Woll? If you give them to Woll, like was done in the case of Carius and Knispel, he is easily the highest scoring commander, surpassing Carius and Knispel. But since Wittmann was an important propaganda tool, it wouldn't do to go giving his kills to his gunner, now would it? Even when it was his gunner whose deadly accuracy and quick thinking had saved the whole crew dozens of times?

I think the question to answer is, to whom is the entire crew's success due?

An example: In the case of Wittmann's expliots at Villers-Bocage, the credit should all go to Bobby Woll, whose fire-on-the-move skills are what enabled the lone Tiger to successfully rout the British 7th Armored. Wittmann was a fairly accurate gunner but could not hit anything while his tank was moving. With a different gunner, the skirmish would probably have had a different outcome.

So I think if you answer that question, the problem will be solved. And in most cases, like Barkmann, even as a gunner the ace-to-be was probably the strong point of his crew.

(I am not sure he wasn't the commander of his Panther at Kursk, because he is recorded as ordering the platoon to weld buckets over their intakes, not something a lowly gunner would do) 

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Thursday, January 4, 2007 9:34 PM

Hey guys I'm a little confused.Confused [%-)]  I was originally under the impression that we were building a vehicle in which the particular Panzer Ace was ALREADY an ace and in command of (I hope this makes sense).

I've noticed your advice to others regarding which armor is OK to build for an ace (ie Ernst Barkmann's Panther D, A, & Gs), .  After initially doing a miniscule amount of research on Barkmann I realized that the Panther D he used during the Kursk offensive was a vehicle in which he wasn't in command of, but was actually just the gunner (don't know how accurate this info is).  I kind of thought then that a Kursk Panther D wouldn't be appropriate.  But now I am seeing that any vehicle is OK as long as the ace used it during his combat career.  Am I correct?  Is so then it opens up even more possibilities than I thought of! 

Sorry to be so confused, but then again I am a bufflehead! Tongue [:P]

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Reno, NV
Posted by espins1 on Thursday, January 4, 2007 9:34 PM
 Comet wrote:

My research on Hermann Bix is going pretty well,I'll put together what I find and post up a link for other to use once I find out some more. 

There is an interesting chapter on Herman Bix in "Panzer Aces" if you have access to it  Smile [:)]

Scott Espin - IPMS Reno High Rollers  Geeked My Reviews 

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