Panzer Aces GB January 2007 to May 31, 2008

Hermesminiatures wrote:

I thought this was quite funny... In 1943 when the Tiger first entered combat, the crews had little or no training, resulting in less than expected performance. Soon the Russians managed to capture an intact Tiger, and immediately set about writing a manual for the Russian tank crews explaining its strengths and weaknesses. In turn, the Germans captured some of the Russian Tiger manuals, and found them to be so helpful that they had them translated to German and distributed to all Tiger crews

bit ironic!   

In 1943 when the Tiger first entered combat, the crews had little or no training, resulting in less than expected performance. Soon the Russians managed to capture an intact Tiger, and immediately set about writing a manual for the Russian tank crews explaining its strengths and weaknesses. In turn, the Germans captured some of the Russian Tiger manuals, and found them to be so helpful that they had them translated to German and distributed to all Tiger crews

I picked up a great book a while ago that might be helpful to anyone doing a Tiger 1,its Tiger 1 On The Eastern Front by Jean Restayn ( ISBN 2-908182-81-5).

It's a great book with load's of pictures and colour plates.

I opened the box on my Jagdpanther today and cant wait to get stuck in......and as a bonus I have just won a Armourscale barrel and armour plate on Ebay for 99 pence which has just made this build even sweeter

My research on Hermann Bix is going pretty well,I'll put together what I find and post up a link for other to use once I find out some more. 

Hermesminiatures wrote:

espins1 wrote: Here is a great link that gives a recap of Ribbentrop http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/ribbentrop.html While that's generally a great site, I've spotted at least two errors for sure in the various ace profiles, besides the corresponding models being nearly all imagineering, for the most part looking nothing like what the actual vehicle did. Oh, and have some asprin on hand - the white text on black will give you a headache On the other hand, I did get the ranks of some of the aces from there - you'll notice some of them in my list are in the same order

What I find interesting is how much inaccurate information there is both online and in print.  I've seen pictures in one book with a caption, and the same picture in another book describing something completely different.    I really began to take note of how much incorrect information there is out there when I begain my exhaustive research into the Bf 109 and all it's variants.  So many aircraft get mis-identified etc, which really makes the research hard. 

And as much as I love the history channels and the military channel, there is incorrect or mis-leading information on those shows all the time.  My wife keeps a log of them when I point them out....

Well, tanks are nowhere near as pretty or neat as aircraft. Most German tanks of this period were delivered to the troops in a dark yellow color with a simple Iron Cross on the hull sides as the only markings. Some like the King Tiger occasionaly had the turret numbers factory painted, but the great majority were marked in the field. So pretty much you'll need to find out the turret number and its color, and buy an appropriate set of generic German hull numbers. Nothing like the subject specific decal sheets of aircraft modeling.

 As far as reference, just try googling combinations of your chosen ace's name, rank, and vehicle name. You'll usually come up with something. There are also a list of reference sites in the first post which may be helpful.

Hermesminiatures wrote:

TryintoModel wrote: As I mentioned, I haven't built an armor kit before.  But I did pick up one of those Dragon KingTiger kit's at HobbyLobby about a year ago during their 50% sale.  I couldn't believe all the parts in that box!!!  It was quite daunting.  I inquired around and it was a tie between Tamiya's Panzer IV Ausf.D and a Tamiya T-34 as a good armor starter kit.  So I got the Panzer.  I've been looking for an excuse to build it, so I'll keep searching for an ace to base it on. You could do SS Sturmbannfuhrer Hubert-Erwin Meierdress, SS Standartenfuhrer Leon Degrelle, or SS Haupsturmfuhrer Rudolph Von Ribbentrop. They all used the Pz IV Ausf D at one point or another. Degrelle was a Belgian Nazi convert who went the whole way from being an infantry private in SS-Nederland, to a Panzer IV ausf D commander, to being General in command of Nederland and other units!

Where can I find decals or tank numbers that I will need to recreate one of their Panzers?  Or perhaps pictures of their tanks?  I'm nowhere near as knowledgable about tank history as aircraft.  It doesn't seem to be as easy to find information on a particular tank commanders tank as it is to find information about a particular pilots plane.

Hermesminiatures wrote:

Degrelle was a Belgian Nazi convert who went the whole way from being an infantry private in SS-Nederland, to a Panzer IV ausf D commander, to being General in command of Nederland and other units!

I was reading about him last night.     Question though. By the time he made it inside that Ausf. D.......   were they upgunned and uparmored?   I'll try to find out later by looking at dates and all.....

TryintoModel wrote:

As I mentioned, I haven't built an armor kit before.  But I did pick up one of those Dragon KingTiger kit's at HobbyLobby about a year ago during their 50% sale.  I couldn't believe all the parts in that box!!!  It was quite daunting.  I inquired around and it was a tie between Tamiya's Panzer IV Ausf.D and a Tamiya T-34 as a good armor starter kit.  So I got the Panzer.  I've been looking for an excuse to build it, so I'll keep searching for an ace to base it on.

You could do SS Sturmbannfuhrer Hubert-Erwin Meierdress, SS Standartenfuhrer Leon Degrelle, or SS Haupsturmfuhrer Rudolph Von Ribbentrop. They all used the Pz IV Ausf D at one point or another.

Degrelle was a Belgian Nazi convert who went the whole way from being an infantry private in SS-Nederland, to a Panzer IV ausf D commander, to being General in command of Nederland and other units!

Hermesminiatures wrote:

I just finished one of Dragon's multimedia kits a few weeks ago, and if you don't have one, an etchmate is a real lifesaver. Otherwise, you'll end up with bunches of PE that's bent where it's not supposed to be. (ask me how I know!) Especially if you ever use AM photoetch, it's thicker than Dragon's and very hard to bend with knife and pliers. Also if you choose to add the air filter buckets, they should be over the four rectangular intakes. The two round ones are for the cooling system.

Thx for the tip. I think I may have the etchmate at my work. Ill check it out.

As I mentioned, I haven't built an armor kit before.  But I did pick up one of those Dragon KingTiger kit's at HobbyLobby about a year ago during their 50% sale.  I couldn't believe all the parts in that box!!!  It was quite daunting.  I inquired around and it was a tie between Tamiya's Panzer IV Ausf.D and a Tamiya T-34 as a good armor starter kit.  So I got the Panzer.  I've been looking for an excuse to build it, so I'll keep searching for an ace to base it on.

I just finished one of Dragon's multimedia kits a few weeks ago, and if you don't have one, an etchmate is a real lifesaver. Otherwise, you'll end up with bunches of PE that's bent where it's not supposed to be. (ask me how I know!) Especially if you ever use AM photoetch, it's thicker than Dragon's and very hard to bend with knife and pliers.

Also if you choose to add the air filter buckets, they should be over the four rectangular intakes. The two round ones are for the cooling system.

psychoblue23 wrote:

Well just to see what I had gotten myself into I opened up the kit. WOW! 720 pcs! This kit is insane. Thankfully this build is a year long haha. The kit looks awsome tho. This will 1. be my first german tank. 2. Be my first Dragon kit. I have been a die-hard Tamiya guy, looks like that might have to change haha.

You sound just like me.  I had been a die hard Tamiya fan and had built their KingTiger, JagdPanther and Sherman and loved them...... then I build (well.. it's almost finished... tee hee) the Dragon Elefant and instantly became a fan of their armor kits.  I have their PzKpfw IVD, JagdTiger, Nashorn and 3 of their Sherman kits (M4A1, M4A3 and M4A3E8) and many am I impressed!  They often time include photo etch, aluminum barrels, individual track links (I despise the older ones... bought metal fruil tracks for the Elefant) but the new magic tracks seem pretty cool, although I have yet to build one. 

This build will be a great opportunity to tackle a couple of my Dragon kits.  I think once you work on this kit you'll fall in love with Dragon Armor (although Tamiya kits are still a dream to build )

I'm looking forward to watching your progress. 

Well just to see what I had gotten myself into I opened up the kit. WOW! 720 pcs! This kit is insane. Thankfully this build is a year long haha. The kit looks awsome tho. This will 1. be my first german tank. 2. Be my first Dragon kit. I have been a die-hard Tamiya guy, looks like that might have to change haha.

Hermesminiatures wrote:

espins1 wrote: Here is a great link that gives a recap of Ribbentrop http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/ribbentrop.html While that's generally a great site, I've spotted at least two errors for sure in the various ace profiles, besides the corresponding models being nearly all imagineering, for the most part looking nothing like what the actual vehicle did. Oh, and have some asprin on hand - the white text on black will give you a headache On the other hand, I did get the ranks of some of the aces from there - you'll notice some of them in my list are in the same order

agreed, that white on black text, and the long lines of text are a bit tough on the eyes 

psychoblue23 wrote:

Hermesminiatures wrote: Might make for a very unique model if you add PE buckets with holes punched in them welded to the air intakes, since that's what Barkmann did as an improvised air filter Sounds liek a clever idea.. but I read that it was only the early models that had those problems... Every thing I read about the Panther says that it is one of if THE most important tanks of WWII.. haha the way u guys sound is that it was a horrible design... am I missing something?

The Panther is clearly the best medium tank of the war (in close contention with the T-34/85 of course).  Early Panthers (the D model) were plagued with many mechanical problems as they were rushed to the front very quickly before they were ready for action and many of the bugs hadn't been ironed out yet.  The engines were particularly sensitive to dirt and debris.  Even simple things like pine needles that fell into the engine grills would cause the engine to crap out in short order... hence the improvised filters, i.e. the buckets. 

Hermesminiatures wrote:

Might make for a very unique model if you add PE buckets with holes punched in them welded to the air intakes, since that's what Barkmann did as an improvised air filter

Sounds liek a clever idea.. but I read that it was only the early models that had those problems... Every thing I read about the Panther says that it is one of if THE most important tanks of WWII.. haha the way u guys sound is that it was a horrible design... am I missing something?

espins1 wrote:

Here is a great link that gives a recap of Ribbentrop http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/ribbentrop.html

While that's generally a great site, I've spotted at least two errors for sure in the various ace profiles, besides the corresponding models being nearly all imagineering, for the most part looking nothing like what the actual vehicle did.

Oh, and have some asprin on hand - the white text on black will give you a headache

On the other hand, I did get the ranks of some of the aces from there - you'll notice some of them in my list are in the same order

Lethal19 wrote:

psychoblue23 wrote: Checking the first page of this thread it seems someone already has chosen the Panther D Lethal19  -  Panther Ausf. D #424 St. Lo - Barkmann Sooo my question is... Is it not ok to have 2 guys building the same tank. AND/OR Is it ok to build a different model but same Ace... Here is some info in this link... My kit has decals for "kursk" which seems to be possible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Barkmann   I am building Barkmann's late A that he was in at St.Lo so if you want to build his D that he was in at kursk i would say go ahead. And if you want decals try Echelon Decals they make a Panther sheet that has Barkmanns Kursk #s on it

barkmann at kursk it is... time to do some research!

Here is a great link that gives a recap of Ribbentrop

http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/ribbentrop.html

TryintoModel wrote:

Hey, espins1 and everyone.  I've never built an armor model before, but have wanted to for a while.  I have a Tamiya 1/35 Panzer IV Ausf.D that I wanted to do as my first armor build.  I haven't had the time to read through the whole thread to see if anyone knew of an Panzer ace in an Panzer IV Ausf.D, but I wouldn't mind joining the build if there was one and I could find some photos and decals for it. Dave

Hi Dave, We'd love to have you in this build.  I'll dig through my stuff and see what I can find.  I'd be willing to bet we'll find some guys from "Das Reich" or "Leibstandarte Adolph Hitler" or some of the other units that started off with the PzKpfw IV D during the campaigns in France, Norway, Greece, the Balkans or Russia. 

And of course, Hermesminiatures might be able to come up with something. 

Hey, espins1 and everyone.  I've never built an armor model before, but have wanted to for a while.  I have a Tamiya 1/35 Panzer IV Ausf.D that I wanted to do as my first armor build.  I haven't had the time to read through the whole thread to see if anyone knew of an Panzer ace in an Panzer IV Ausf.D, but I wouldn't mind joining the build if there was one and I could find some photos and decals for it.

Dave

sweet thx for all the info guys. This is good news. I will try to get started today. Its my only day off from work this week.

You could do either Barkmann or Holzer, take your pick.

also add this to the reference section:

http://www.dasreich.ca/ 

psychoblue23 wrote:

Checking the first page of this thread it seems someone already has chosen the Panther D Lethal19  -  Panther Ausf. D #424 St. Lo - Barkmann Sooo my question is... Is it not ok to have 2 guys building the same tank. AND/OR Is it ok to build a different model but same Ace... Here is some info in this link... My kit has decals for "kursk" which seems to be possible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Barkmann

Been doing some digging, the first Panther Ace that came to mind was Fritz Langanke, he commanded a Panther tank in the 2nd Company , 2nd SS Panzer Regiment "Das Reich".

Here is an interesting story of some of his fighting in Normandy:

http://www.dasreich.ca/fritz_anec2.html

He is definately one worth looking into.  I've seen him give interviews for various programs on the History and Military Channels and I have a lot of respect for this man.  Here is one of his many exploits during the Normandy battles:

"Fritz Langanke's first clash with American armor was on July 9, 1944, south of Sainteny France, in which he destroyed 9 Sherman tanks in less than 15 minutes with his Panther tank."

You can read more about his exploits here: http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/langanke.html

Oddly enough, no one really knows why the Panther progression went from D to A to G.  Those crazy Germans..... heh heh 

I found a great list of Knights Cross holders if anyone is interested: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1727