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Moto GP / GP bike enthusiasts

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: South Africa
Posted by Bushpig on Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:13 AM
Looking very nice so far. Do you remove the seam off the tyres? I find this is easy to do and adds to the authenticity. I use one of my wifes emery boards and just work around the tyre till the seam is gone.
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
West RC211V
Posted by chrisga on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:47 PM

Hi guys,

 Here are some pictures of progress so far on my latest RC211V in West colours.

Just opened the Chrissie pressies this morning and I got a Konica Minolta kit so looking forward to making that one! Also got a dremel type tool so am hoping to do detail work with that! Am waiting for some carbon decal that I ordered to arrive before I can properly finish the West model.

 Oh and the front mudguard has had Klear applied and looks pretty shiny!

Happy Christmas!

Chris

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
Posted by chrisga on Sunday, December 23, 2007 9:58 AM
Thanks for the tips. That is pretty much how I go about my modelling using the brush instead of an airbrush. I try and paint all the same colour bits at the same time. I have applied a coat of klear with my brush and it looks ok so I might give it another coat then put the decals on and go over it again after.
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: South Africa
Posted by Bushpig on Sunday, December 23, 2007 2:25 AM

Chris I have never used Klear so cant help with this, there are other more qualified chaps around to comment. However my method with fairings etc is to join together where necessary, fill any imperfections, apply primer, base colour then a layer or two of clear. You will find that you may have to lightly sand with fine grit water paper between coats to get rid of little imperfections etc. When I have a clear base I am happy with I let it set for a few days out of harms (and dust) way. Apply the decals then finish with a few coats of clear.

Air brushing parts, I tend to build up the pieces as much as possible then spray them individually ( ie there may be parts to the engine block you have to join and paint, others you paint before adding onto the block, you just have to play it by ear). There will be times you have to mask off areas, it is impossible to control over spray to that degree. I also tend to clean up and paint together all  of the parts that call to be the same colour, eg all the bits that need chrome or X18, you run the risk of losing them but at least you save paint and they are all done at once.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
Posted by chrisga on Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:44 AM

Hi guys,

I have managed to get some Klear frm my local supermarket. I am now at a stage with my current RCV build where I have fixed the fairings together. Do i just paint the Klear on with my brush before putting decals on and then another coat after decals or do i put decals on first and then paint over?

Just a quick question about airbrushing before I make a decision whether to save up and atake the plunge; When you are painting the engine say do you assemble the engine block and then spray each colour one after the other. If this is the method do you have to individually mask off everytime you change colour or does an airbrush spray fine enough to not need masking? My current method is to paint everything while they are on the sprues and then assemble, and finish by trimming sprue stubs and overpainting where these were.

Thanks in advance,

Chris.

p.s. pics to follow...

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: South Africa
Posted by Bushpig on Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:42 PM

Hi Joel Thanks for the compliment. I have shared this one before, in the Moto GP build started by Pingtang. You may remember me as the guy who spent 2 years in sri lanka and shared some of my challenges to keep my hobby going there. Now back in South Africa and so much to do I am finding it hard to get to the modelling bench.

Well done on the up coming little one

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by barhebraeus on Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:36 AM

Bushpig: Thanks for the wonderful advice!Bow [bow]

Joel: congrats on the upcoming delivery!  And thanks for the welcome (remember me from the AF forum?)Laugh [(-D]

SeaBee: ditto, ditto, ditto!Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

FYI: call me Mike.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Paarl, South Africa
Posted by SeaBee on Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:14 AM
Hey Joel, way to go! Congrats with the baby coming and good luck with the rest of the term. I will definately have a drink on you tonight! Ours is turning two at the end of Jan and you can take it from me - it's a life-changing experience. For the better - I cannot imagine my life without that little thing! Yes, she tends to steal some more modelling time, but it's sooo worth it! I now build almost exclusively late at night or early in the morning before the rest of the house awakes. Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Kalmar, Sweden
Posted by joelrydh on Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:12 AM

Bushpig! Why haven't you shown us this test bike before?! (Or have you...?) If you haven't I'm really angry on you for withholding such a great piece of work. It looks great and I'll always be tremendously impressed with you that can do such great cf jobs. Truely inspiring but non the less seems so totaly unachievable for me.

To you new guys, a very warm welcome and please join the group build with whatever is in your stack, as long as it is a GP bike.

Regarding Future/Klear/Klar and whatever names it is sold under I have just tried it ones and didn't like it at all. Probably did some moves wrong and I shall concider making another go, but right now I think I'll rather take my chances with a rattlecan of clear instead of brush painting a cowl with Future. IF, and I say IF, you don't save up for that air brush and compressor. It will turn your modelling into something completely different, and with different that is said in a really good way. The technique is rather straight forward and you'll be stuck with the cleaning hazzles but I'd say the paint loss is at a minimum as the paint is sprayed at such a high preassure and what's left in the airbrush is easily poured bak into the jar. I spray laquers, acrylics and enamels and I'll never return to brush painting. But then again, it is a bit of an investment.

2007 is coming to an end and as always it's time to sum up what one has achieved wich in my case was easier than ever. I haven't done much this year since the hole house building hysteria has taken up so much time. AND what's next when you finally think there is some room for some modeling again? There's a baby coming in May! Feels great though and hopefully I can sneak into the modeling room from time to time.

To sum things up, GREAT to see so many posts in the last couple of days, I think the GB is alive!

 Best regards

Joel

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: South Africa
Posted by Bushpig on Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:04 AM

The exhaust weathering is based on a technique I picked up from another build by Andrew Collodale (master modeller in my opinion, check out all his other contirbutions in the other forums).

Once you have the base chrome or metal colour it is then a case of free hand spraying the various clear colours (I only use the tamiya X enamel range, no acrylics). I use low pressure, a fine nozzle and needle set up on my airbrush and try to get as realistic a heat stain as possible. There are loads of pics around of the stationery bikes to use as a guide. You may notice on the M1 that I have used a lot of blue etc below the muffler but on the end of the pipe basically just clear orange and smoke, this is how it looks to me in the pics I use as reference. I finish with a very fine X19 smoke layer which seems to tone the whole thing down and make it all more realistic. I have seen elsewhere that guys will finish with a very dilute solution and fine spray of the initial metal shade to bring back the metal look but I dont bother. As with any technique it is trial and error, I practised for ages on pieces of sprue till I thought I had it half mastered and then totally screwed up my first attempt, love this hobby!

Incidenatlly with the CF decals some of them seem to be more silver than black which I dont think looks good so I spray over them with X19 smoke as well which seems to give them a more toned down blacker look. I use Scale Motorsport CF decal sheets, mostly twill weave and in 1:20 scale. The M1 was a plain weave design in 1:12 scale but since doing it I realise it should have been twill but dont have the heart to start again.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by barhebraeus on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:55 PM

Bushpig--another question: what exactly do you do with the Tamiya smoke on exhausts?  Spot spray or the whole thing with a light coat?  Also, do you mean the Acrylic Smoke?Dunce [D)] 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Paarl, South Africa
Posted by SeaBee on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 5:00 AM

Abso-Censored [censored]-lutely.  It was 2K. Learned my lesson. It also buggered my airbrush when I believed the salesman that it could be cleaned with normal lacquer thinners. Banged Head [banghead] I hope to have it sorted with a new head assembly... 

But back to Future or the much talked-about and dreaded by some TS13 for clear parts for me. 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by barhebraeus on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:59 AM

Bushpig and Seabee--thanks!  Great tips! 

 

Bushpig--love your YZR!  Can I ask what CF you used (scale, pattern, and color)?Big Smile [:D]

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Ireland
Posted by nick31 on Wednesday, December 19, 2007 4:09 AM

Bushpig,
I think it was 2K that messed up that screen youre talking about.

FWIW, Ive used Klear on all my Tamiya screens and never had a problem. Just dip it in and let any excess drain off.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: South Africa
Posted by Bushpig on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:58 PM

The method I follow is pretty much the same regardless of the part size. My rule is to try as much as possible to keep the decal to one piece. This makes it harder to bed down and get around difficult angles but gives a nicer finish in the long run. I cover the part in strips of masking tape and then trace around the edge of the part with a marker. Carefully remove the masking tape and then try to gently lay it flat on a piece of clean glass, this gives you an idea of whether it will lay flat on your decal. Here you may need to make the odd cut. I did the Desmo and basically in the middle had to cut a large V from the base to approximately half way up the piece (go have a look here http://www.dextermodels.com/pages/dcl12pag.html and look at the decal template for the CF for kit DC-L12006 and you will see what I mean). Then cut out the shape using your drawn line and allow about 1mm spare on the outside of your line to allow for any shrinkage during application. Remove the masking tape carefully and then apply. Mostly it should bed down ok, where you cut the V you now have to carefully bring the edges to meet in the middle. Then it's a case of lots of Microsol and getting it all to smooth down. Dont stress too much if you mess it up, the great thing about CF is you just soak it off and start again till you are happy.

I did this bike a while ago and if you look closely you will see I CF'd the whole thing.

Hope this has all made sense.

Chris look at Seabee's Stoner RC211, you will see he felt he screwed up a good model when the Klear damaged his visor.

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Paarl, South Africa
Posted by SeaBee on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:53 PM
Best is to make a mask, using one of two methods. Simple way: make an oversized one by tracing off the contours on the rear side of the decals sheet, apply and clean up the excess bits. To get an accurate one, make one by sticking Tamiya masking tape on the parts and trimming it as it should be. When pulled off, you then have a mask (positive, not a negative!) to use for cutting out the sheet.
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by barhebraeus on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:09 PM
OK, gents, my first question: anyone know what's the best way to CF the rear wheel guard for the Tamiya Desmosedici?  I have the Scale Motorsport 1/20 decal.  Should I do it in one piece or more than one?  I've CF-ed other pieces, but none this big yet.Confused [%-)]
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
Posted by chrisga on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 3:23 PM

Thanks for the advice - its all useful so keep it coming!

The fortuna, repsol valencia, fairings were done with tamiya sprays, and the rgv, telefonica rcv and gauloises yzr were all done with one can of tamiya telefonica blue. So they werent brushed to be honest, but I have never sprayed anything apart from fairings and wheels. Absolutley everything else is brushed on, inc the white on the TZR250 lower fairing.


What were the probs with klear, I tried looking abck through 15 pages but couldnt find it immediately. Didnt manage to get any tonight, am not in a major rush as it may be a while before I need to do any fairings. Just working my way through my west RCV.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: South Africa
Posted by Bushpig on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:15 PM

Chris Firstly having re-looked at your pics it is amazing the finish you have achieved using just hand and brush, very well done. I still believe an airbrush is the way to go though, I now hardly hand paint anything on a bike build. It is just so effective for all the metal bits and you end up with such a clean finish as opposed to the inevitable tiny brush strokes when done by hand. I do however understand the budget thing, it's taken me years to get my bits together!

An airbrush needs air to work. When I first started I used to pump up a tyre and with an adaptor on the valve got by, till one day I got tired of going to the garage to fill up with air all the time and seriously over-inflated it. Needless to say the thing exploded in my room, luckily I was not near it at the time! You can use aerosol cans which also work but can get costly. Best is to purchase a compressor, these can range in price from really cheap to outrageous. Best is one with a pressure reservoir which means you don't get pulsing air but rather a smooth flow of air. Can be a bit noisy but they fill up pretty quick and then you work in silence till the pressure drops. As for airbrush model I started with a very basic external mix type and have progressed to a badger single action, don't feel I need to get any fancier than this.

As for paint wastage, yes that does happen but with experience you can judge pretty closely how much you need so I find it is minimal. I only use the tamiya X range of enamels and have never had any problem. I find the magic mix ratio is 1 part paint to 3 parts thinners.

 The only down sides for me are the little bit of extra cleaning you have to go through to clean the bottle and airbrush after each spraying. Also the fumes can build up in your model room. I made a spray booth with extractor fan which pipes most of it outside. Here is a pic.

Careful with the Klear, you will see in this build how it can go wrong in some posts by Seabee. test on spare kits or bits of plastic till you have it mastered.

 

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
Posted by chrisga on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:49 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence Bushpig. I would love an airbrush but I really am not sure how they work. Are they electric and noisy? Also I have now built up a bit of a collection of tamiya paints. The x numbers in little pots. Can i use them in an airbrush or do i have to start again and buy new paints. Also with a brush i can chop and change colours and only use minimal paint but as I see it the airbrush would need more paint than needs to be sprayed to be loaded in each time. Would the rest of the unused paint be wasted? As you can probaly see Im on a bit of a budget when it comes to modelling but I would love them to look as good as possible. I am going to buy some Klear stuff tonight on the way home (can use it for my floors as well so the other half can't complain).
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: South Africa
Posted by Bushpig on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:59 AM

Hey nice to see some new faces, welcome. As we said at the beginning of this build it is open to all bike fans, no limits and no time frame. Just hoping to share progress, tips etc, it is amazing what knowledge is out there.

Chris nice progress on your kits, and amazing considering what you have in your tool kit! I seem to have collected tons of things over the years but seem to always use just one or two brushes, air brush (incidentally if there is one piece of equipment you should consider this is it, you will change the face of your modelling forever - even the very cheap ones do a good job)toothpicks, scalpel blades and sand paper - keep to the basics and you cant go far wrong

 

Happy holidays everyone.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Ireland
Reply
Posted by nick31 on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:52 AM

Welcome barhebaeus,
You can pretty much do what you want: post pics of your progess as you go, post pics of just your finished model, or just ask for/share/offer advice. There are some seriously good modellers on here (much better than me) and everyones more than happy to help and/or comment. Its entirely up to you what model you make or how you choose to show it. But we all like to see pics Wink [;)]


Chris,
I shouldve mentioned that Klear is also known as "Future" - this link is very useful (pretty much everything you need to know about it)
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by barhebraeus on Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:12 AM
Hello gents.  I'm new to the forum--is the idea to post work in progress pics of any bike I choose, or is there a guideline for which one to work on?  Looking forwarding to interacting with you all and getting good advice...Bow [bow]
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
Posted by chrisga on Monday, December 17, 2007 1:21 PM

Nick,

 Thanks for the welcome and the advice. I will go and look it up now....

Will post pics of the West RCV as and when I can do a bit more to it.


Chris

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Ireland
Posted by nick31 on Monday, December 17, 2007 11:25 AM

Hi chrisga and welcome,

My tuppence worth of advice for clear coating, especially if you dont have an airbrush, is to use a product called Klear. Look it up on the main forum, theres loads of info there.

It'll not only put a nice gloss on your bodywork, but will seal and protect the decals as well. Remove the bodywork before coating it - Tamiya kits should come apart easily enough. It'll brush on quite easily, just be careful of any "pooling" at the bottom edges of the piece youre coating.

Its always given my models a lovely shine. hth.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
Posted by chrisga on Monday, December 17, 2007 4:12 AM

Hi,

I'd like to join your group build if you'll have me. (I was a bit worried that mine wouldnt be good enough after seeing all the other stunning builds here). It would either be the Valencia RCV or the YZR500 (if you'll take a pre motogp gp bike that is) as they are my favourites. What do I have to do with them? The Fortuna YZR M1 looks ok from the side I took the photo but the side fairing decals dont quite line up with the nose fairing on the other side...... I am currently working on an RC211V in West colours - the first kit I have done that isnt how it should be on the box if you know what I mean. Could eneter that when its done.

With respect to the clear spray for finishing do you spray fairings before putting the windscreen in the nose piece and before they are attached to the bike?

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Kalmar, Sweden
Posted by joelrydh on Monday, December 17, 2007 3:44 AM

Hi Chris, and welcome to the forum!

May I first say thanks for your background info. Nice to see the progress and it's never a waist of time to look at such nice builds. Just keep it up and you'll soon be ready for the mugello kit.

The Finescale forum software has the funny way of chopping pictures as you say. It is only the preview pics that get chopped though. Just click pictures and you'll see the full size version.

As for the clear paint I'd go for some of the spray paint, many of the paint manufacturers stocks one. You have the common TS-13 from Tamiya wich is good but if put on in too thick layers can affect the decals. I know Modelers' have one as well and probably Gunze Sangio too. You'll have to shop around.

Will you join us in this GB and if so with wich bike?

Best regards
Joel

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
Posted by chrisga on Sunday, December 16, 2007 5:15 PM

Sorry can anyone tell me why the forum has chopped off the front of my pics?

Full size pics can be found on my flickr account if anyone is interested:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/98882529@N00/

 

Oh forgot to say none of my bikes have laquer or clear kote. What is the best stuff to use if I do not have an airbrush?

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: UK
My Motogp models
Posted by chrisga on Sunday, December 16, 2007 5:03 PM

Hello everyone. This is my first post so please bear with me. I will post a few pics of some of my models so far:

I started with the Nastro Azzurro NSR as my first race bike (I had done Tamiya's R1 before) and I think I had a hobbyknife, some cement and 4 tamiya colours to my name. Hence the wrong colours here and there...

Then moved on to the Suzuki RGV and the Repsol Honda 2003 and I bought a few extra colours with that kit, next came the TZR250 and the YZR500. I then did the West NSR, Telefonica RC211V, YZRM1 Gauloises and the Fortuna rep. Then the Ducati and RC211V Valencia were built 

 

Sorry for wasting so much of your time with the above pics. Just a bit of background. I wouldnt class myself as a modeller, more of a bike nut that enjoys making models to relax when I can't get out on my 1:1. As i said before the above pics chart my progress really from the first forays with only a few colours. Its only in the last week that I found this site. I have since ordered some Microsol because I always struggle with decals. All of the above bikes were made with nothing more than my knife, some tamiya x paints and some tamiya spray. I dont have anything as technical as an airbrush, or even filler and masking tape.

All of the models are as they came out of the box from tamiya with no extras or photo etched parts.

I have been reading this thread with interest as my ultimate aim is to make an NSR mugello but your experiences have told me I need a bit more practice first before attempting it.

Thanks guys.....

 

Chris

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Kalmar, Sweden
Posted by joelrydh on Monday, November 26, 2007 2:36 AM
Looking great Invertman! This livery is really great!
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