MiG Killers Group Build, 7/07 to 6/08

I present a question...

What's the best way to paint the engine/exhaust area and the airframe aft of it on an F-4 Phantom?  Should I paint the camo adjacent to it first and then the metal areas, or vice versa?  

I used Tamiya White Fine surface primer on the model, it's drying now.  It's a laquer, so it should stand up fine to the metallic paints I've collected:

1. Alclad II Jet Exhaust

2. Alclad II Airframe Aluminum

3. MM Aluminum Non-Buffing (AB only)

4. MM Stainless Steel Buffing (AB only)

5. MM Exhaust Buffing ABO

6. MM Burnt Metal Buffing ABO

OH yeah, I'll be using MM acryl colors for the camo.

That's what I have to work with, which I think is actually pretty good. 

I think the Exhaust/tail area of Phantom presents a unique modelling challenge in that it has a painted airframe, yet an unpainted exhaust area.  This area presents spaces which look as pristine as the NMF on a P-51, and an area which is burned and stained by big ole' GE J79's. 

Semper Fi,

Chris  

Mist086 wrote:

Lookin good Rand.  What did you use for the pre-shading, if i may ask?  I mean, airbrushing, brush, or toothpic in the lines

Thanks for the comments Gents!

Mist, I mixed up Plaid Acrylic Ivory White with Plaid Acrylic Licorice Black to get a very dark gray thats almost black. Plaid Acylics are thicker more heavily pigmented paint and brushed (smooed) it on over panel lines and then airbrushed MM Acryl Flat Gull Gray over it. The paint is all Acrylics, no enamels used at all. You cannot airbrush Plaid acrylics, they are just to thick even when thinned but they are great for touch up work, washes, shading and weathering. Walmart carries thier full line of paints. I wont be accenting the panel lines over the top but the belly does have panel line accenting and weathering.

I also found out why my graphite rub technique did not work. You can't use it on a smooth painted model surface. The painted surface needs to be a bit gritty or pebblely so the graphite has something to cling and stick to so it doesnt all wash away when you wipe away the excess. I made the mistake of buffing off the gritty texture from the primer coat and should have left it on for this technique to work. At least now I know what I did wrong.

Mist, great looking progress on the Crusader, I really like what you have done with this one.

Also that is two nice phantoms you guy's are putting together. They look like they are going to be great builds. I hope to start my F-4 this weekend but can only hope mine is half as good as yours. Looking at the kit tonight it's going to be an up-hill battle. It's the AMT kit and the flash on it alone might take forever to clean up and the interior is horrible. I will still make the best of the kit though.  nice work guy's.

Steve

Air Master Modeler wrote:

This is not the effect I wanted but I am happy with it and going to leave it on. It's much more subtle than the effect I wanted but still looks good to me.

Looks good to me too.  I really like the contrasting shades of grey.  Grey is a great color for weathering and contrast. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Good progress Chris! I still think your going to beat me to the finish though.

Now my Progress Report. 

I spent all day (yesterday) working on getting panel lines shaded and accented. I tried my graphite rub technique and for some unknown reason it would not take to the model surface and washed off entirely and this is strange because I use it on my F-8E and had no problems. I went over my Phantom 5 times trying to get the graphite rub to adhere and it just would not stay on. I had to resort back to old methods and instead did a preshade technique over an already painted model which is a NO, NO, but I had no choice. Took some very dark gray I made up from Plaid Acrylic paint and went over panel lines and then repainted (airbrushing) another flat gull gray base coat over that. This is not the effect I wanted but I am happy with it and going to leave it on. It's much more subtle than the effect I wanted but still looks good to me.  

In the words of the great Homer Simpson.... Doh!

I'll just record it and watch it on Sunday... Don't tell me who wins.

Semper Fi,

Chris 

Lookin' good Rand,

I have a bit of a sneek peek too.  The black is for the interior of the cockpit framing.  I ran out of primer on the external components (ie landing gear, LG doors, missiles, bombs, weapons mounts, and fuel tanks).  I need to head to the LHS on Saturday, so I probably won't start color coats until Sunday.  I hope there's a NASCAR race on. 

Semper Fi,

Chris 

Here is a sneek peek for you guys.

I started shading and accenting panel lines last night and will start weathering around panel lines with graphite rub today along with some more detail painting to the fusalage and wing tips. I should start decaling this bird by the weekend if all goes well. I will post more pics later when weathering and detail work is done.

Air Master Modeler wrote:

ridleusmc wrote: There's not a whole lot to update at the moment.  The Phantom is assembled and masked.  Some of the ordinance, landing gear and loose panels have been primed.  It should be getting its colors sometime by the weekend if not earlier.  I'd post pics but batteries take a while to charge.  Semper Fi, Chris Chris, I think its going to come down to a battle of who finishes first between you and me. I have my bird airbrushed as of this morning and I will be detail painting later today. I am still waiting on the MK-20 Rockeye's Chopperfan is sending so I think your going to finish before I do. I think either way you and I are gonna have two Bad A Phantoms. Lock and Load Bro!

You have the race.  It'll take me a while to even get it prepped.  Then there's primer.  Why do I always run out of primer.  Tonight I'll be working on troubled seams here and there.  

Mist, I love the Crusader.

Semper Fi,

Chris

That's exactly what i did Rand.  Tossed the bunch and went with future.  Here is my update:  I am going into the weathering stage, then i'll start assembly.  I know it's not historically accurate, but i like the way the missiles look painted, so I'm gonna go with that.  As always let me know.  I'm still learning and usually try soemthing new with each model i complete

ridleusmc wrote:

There's not a whole lot to update at the moment.  The Phantom is assembled and masked.  Some of the ordinance, landing gear and loose panels have been primed.  It should be getting its colors sometime by the weekend if not earlier.  I'd post pics but batteries take a while to charge.  Semper Fi, Chris

Chris, I think its going to come down to a battle of who finishes first between you and me. I have my bird airbrushed as of this morning and I will be detail painting later today. I am still waiting on the MK-20 Rockeye's Chopperfan is sending so I think your going to finish before I do. I think either way you and I are gonna have two Bad A Phantoms.

Lock and Load Bro!

There's not a whole lot to update at the moment.  The Phantom is assembled and masked.  Some of the ordinance, landing gear and loose panels have been primed.  It should be getting its colors sometime by the weekend if not earlier.  I'd post pics but batteries take a while to charge. 

Semper Fi,

Chris

Mist086 wrote:

Got the left side and the wings decaled and the canopy painted and futured.  One thing i encountered.  Has anyone else seen Testor's gloss coat turn yellow?  It might be old, but i noticed it and quickly got it off before it set.  It was weird.  Will post pics soon

Mist,

 How old is the can of Testors Gloss Coat? If it's old this may be why it turned yellow, throw it away. Give the model a good coat of Future instead then spray it with light coats of Krylon Clear Matte. I refuse to use any Testors clear coat sprays. I have seen this happen and have also had it attack the paint even after spraying Testors clear gloss.

There should be goulish laughter and lightning flashing right now. Glad to see your project hitting on all eight again, Rand. Got the fuselage glued together tonight, will have to fill the seams later, then join the wings and intakes to it. I was reading a little on the crew for this Phantom, and didn't realize Jack Ensch was eventually shot down some months later (I believe it was a SAM) and was taken as a POW until the end of hostilities. These men are true heroes.

Glenn

IT LIVES!!!!

My Monogram F-4J has survived canopy transplant surgery! Thanks to Eddie Miller who donated a spare canopy after his Monogram F-4J met an untimely death with a saw. (Although I am pretty sure it was harvested for experimental parts in his Mad Modelers Lab.) Dr. A.M. spent 6 hours at the bench and the surgery was a sucess. The F-4J is recovering and resting comfortably on the work bench and is expected to make a full recovery. 

Comments welcome.

Post Surgery Pictures below.

Hey Rand, I have searched everywhere and have not found the wheels yet. I will continue to look and let you know if I find them.

Steve

Great, that bit of info frees me to find an angle which looks best.  Thanks guys.

Semper Fi,

Chris

ridleusmc wrote:

Berny, I for one feel lucky that you have been providing us with your expertise. I haven't been getting much done lately on my Phantom.  I added some wiring to the pit with some solder. Test fitting the flaps doesn't look right.  I'm going to position them in the extended position as it the monster would be sitting on the tarmack before a mission.  The flaps look like too shallow an angle.  I was thinking I'd simply cut off the mounting tabs and reposition them.  What do you guys think?  Semper Fi, Chris

What you are calling flaps are actually ailerons.  They can be positioned at any degree down and do not have to match.  You can show one full down and one half down.  Do not show any of them up as they were limited to +2 degrees up travel.  Anything above that than the spoilers on the wing would go up.  Static, the spoilers would be down and any amount of droop for the ailerons. 

Paint the deck behind the rear cockpit flat black.  The area behind the seats were gray and both center and rear decks were black.

ilovef-4 wrote:

Hey Berny, Question about AIM-9J/N's for you. What color are the strips on these Aim-9 Sidewinder missiles? I can't post pics at work (DOD) or at home until I get my laptop back online!

The AIM-9J and AIM-9J-1 had a yellow (FS 33538) band directly behind the seaker head, forward of the warhead.  Another yellow stripe was located behind the warhead just forward of the fuse.  Directly behind the fuse was a black stripe.  The AIM-9N was a export version with less capability.  Following the N was the AIM-9P, AIM-9P-2/P-3/P-4/& P-5, which had identical markings.  The export version of the P series had unpainted seaker heads but all the USAF versions were all gloss white.

Copyright TwoBobs LLC

Copyright TwoBobs LLC

semibold wrote:

thanks guys, i'll hit hobbytown this weekend and see if i can dig up a nice f-4 kit.

Semi, Aboard!

When you get your kit post here what brand and scale the kit will be so I can get you on the list. Also go to first page on this thread and get your badge and post it to your profile siganature to let everyone know your a participant if you like. To post images or pictures you need to get a free storage acct, with photobucket.com or other free storage service.

Chris,

Check your big book... Great Book Of Modern Warplanes, the flap angle looks right to me going by the pictures I see in my big book, Look at the picture of Oyster 03 in the Phantom in Combat chapter, shows Capt. Ritchie's F-4D with flaps down at same angle. I wouldn't change it but let's see what Berny says.

Thanks Steve, I'll be looking for the picture and will let you know if I can use them.

Berny, I for one feel lucky that you have been providing us with your expertise.

I haven't been getting much done lately on my Phantom.  I added some wiring to the pit with some solder.

Test fitting the flaps doesn't look right.  I'm going to position them in the extended position as it the monster would be sitting on the tarmack before a mission.  The flaps look like too shallow an angle.  I was thinking I'd simply cut off the mounting tabs and reposition them.  What do you guys think? 

Semper Fi,

Chris