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The Official P-61 Group Build Thread

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  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Saturday, January 5, 2008 12:04 PM

 sf_plane_nut wrote:

you know what...i found it...doh!...right after i finally gave up and was doing something else...thanks for the offer...its nice to know help is out there...

Young feller, there's a few things you need to know:

It is a mistake to let any mechanical device know that you are in a hurry.

It is a mistake to let any inanimate object know that you are looking for it. (As you just discovered.) 

There is a species of gremlins that has a vicious, sneaky sense of humor. They never really steal anything, they just move it, and they are very fast. When you are looking for something you "mislaid" (except that you remember precisely where and when you had it last) they keep moving it until you give up (at which point they put it where you will trip over it); or they get bored (hardly ever happens in less than a day, at which point they put it back where you expected it to be); or you placate them in some way (involuntary but self-inflicted injury almost always works—falling off a ladder ricketty chair used as a ladder, tripping over something (your own feet works best) or banging your head on something, especially if it draws blood. The object of your search will then either fall down and hit you on the head, or you will land on it when you fall, inflicting further injury to you and possibly damaging the sought object.

Occasionally, it gets so bad that the person pops an artery and dies. Invariably, the sought object is found in their hand.

Mischief [:-,]

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Friday, January 4, 2008 10:30 PM
 sf_plane_nut wrote:
 chopperfan wrote:

 sf_plane_nut wrote:
 Triarius wrote:
This is the 1/48 Revellogram kit, right? The sight and elevation post are a single piece. Difficult but not impossible. I'll see what I can do, but it will probably take a few weeks, as I'm in the middle of trying to cast crew members for this thing (I have two, but I need six for the two kits.)


dude...thanks for even trying...i have looked everywhere...if it went into one of my wifes boxes over there it will prpbably never be found...not even in pieces...let me know how it goes...i cant wait to try casting myself...oh wait...i think i can...

Okay you all!! The redneck to the rescue again!! I ain't building military so I will have the sight assemblies from two kits.

PM your snail mail and I'll get them off in the next day or two. I got a set of decals going out to Andrew (raptordriver) so I can do them both at the same time. Wink [;)]Thumbs Up [tup]



you know what...i found it...doh!...right after i finally gave up and was doing something else...thanks for the offer...its nice to know help is out there...
I've looked at my top downs: primary source is all b/w, but I've got a few color books.

I think the way hkshooter did it for the Tigercat is really close. Grey beige.

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by sf_plane_nut on Friday, January 4, 2008 9:28 PM
 chopperfan wrote:

 sf_plane_nut wrote:
 Triarius wrote:
This is the 1/48 Revellogram kit, right? The sight and elevation post are a single piece. Difficult but not impossible. I'll see what I can do, but it will probably take a few weeks, as I'm in the middle of trying to cast crew members for this thing (I have two, but I need six for the two kits.)


dude...thanks for even trying...i have looked everywhere...if it went into one of my wifes boxes over there it will prpbably never be found...not even in pieces...let me know how it goes...i cant wait to try casting myself...oh wait...i think i can...

Okay you all!! The redneck to the rescue again!! I ain't building military so I will have the sight assemblies from two kits.

PM your snail mail and I'll get them off in the next day or two. I got a set of decals going out to Andrew (raptordriver) so I can do them both at the same time. Wink [;)]Thumbs Up [tup]



you know what...i found it...doh!...right after i finally gave up and was doing something else...thanks for the offer...its nice to know help is out there...
  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by Gigatron on Friday, January 4, 2008 9:24 PM

Hey Eric,

I have exactly one color picture that shows extenisive exhaust staining on the Widow.  I don't know if it's typical or was just a fluke, but it's the one I'm going to copy Laugh [(-D]

I have "P-61 in Action" (IIRC), and while it has a lot of pictures, they're hardly of anything useful.  Most of them show the widow from the front compartment forward, from the side.  I know what the bloody bird looks like from that angle.  Show me detail pics with open panels - in color.  Or close-ups of hydro lines.  Anything other than a profile of the crew compartment.

But thank you for the offer Wink [;)]

-Fred

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Friday, January 4, 2008 6:20 PM
Hey gig, when doing the exhaust staining, all the pics I have seen show this as extreme and almost white in color. From what I understand, this is lead residue from the fuel. If I can get my scanner hooked up I will post some pics of what I am talking about.

Eric

 

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Friday, January 4, 2008 3:04 PM

 sf_plane_nut wrote:
 Triarius wrote:
This is the 1/48 Revellogram kit, right? The sight and elevation post are a single piece. Difficult but not impossible. I'll see what I can do, but it will probably take a few weeks, as I'm in the middle of trying to cast crew members for this thing (I have two, but I need six for the two kits.)


dude...thanks for even trying...i have looked everywhere...if it went into one of my wifes boxes over there it will prpbably never be found...not even in pieces...let me know how it goes...i cant wait to try casting myself...oh wait...i think i can...

Okay you all!! The redneck to the rescue again!! I ain't building military so I will have the sight assemblies from two kits.

PM your snail mail and I'll get them off in the next day or two. I got a set of decals going out to Andrew (raptordriver) so I can do them both at the same time. Wink [;)]Thumbs Up [tup]

Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by Gigatron on Friday, January 4, 2008 2:04 PM

Casting is definitely nice skillset to have (wish I did), but you probably don't want something as fragile and awkwardly shaped as that sight assembly to be your first attempt.

I'm so glad i work on hardwood floors -though it hasn't kept me from losing that dang clear peg leg.  I'm sure I'll find it the day after I finish...

-Fred

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Friday, January 4, 2008 1:40 PM

 sf_plane_nut wrote:
i cant wait to try casting myself...oh wait...i think i can...

Oh, you definitely can. The only reason to do casting is if there is no other way—a lot of very fiddly work and little, but crucial things you learn as you go along.Banged Head [banghead]

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by sf_plane_nut on Friday, January 4, 2008 1:22 PM
 Triarius wrote:
This is the 1/48 Revellogram kit, right? The sight and elevation post are a single piece. Difficult but not impossible. I'll see what I can do, but it will probably take a few weeks, as I'm in the middle of trying to cast crew members for this thing (I have two, but I need six for the two kits.)


dude...thanks for even trying...i have looked everywhere...if it went into one of my wifes boxes over there it will prpbably never be found...not even in pieces...let me know how it goes...i cant wait to try casting myself...oh wait...i think i can...
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Friday, January 4, 2008 1:00 PM
This is the 1/48 Revellogram kit, right? The sight and elevation post are a single piece. Difficult but not impossible. I'll see what I can do, but it will probably take a few weeks, as I'm in the middle of trying to cast crew members for this thing (I have two, but I need six for the two kits.)

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by sf_plane_nut on Friday, January 4, 2008 12:28 PM
 Triarius wrote:

Dave,

Exactly what part number? I don't have a spare, but I might be able to cast one for you. 



part #33..the sight elevation assembly...it is just gone...amazing how that can happen...think its possible?...
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Friday, January 4, 2008 12:23 PM

Dave,

Exactly what part number? I don't have a spare, but I might be able to cast one for you. 

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by sf_plane_nut on Friday, January 4, 2008 12:17 PM
so it finally happened...the carpet monster ate one of the gunner sights for the p-61 black widow...shot out of my tweezers and it is gone...anybody have a spare?...

and for the record i went and bought a new set of tweezers that you squeeze to open so when you let go the pretty much lock on...should have thought of that earlier..

any help would be great...and by the way.... this is the pisser...had to throw a name change...aparently it was offensive...sorry to anyone i offended...
  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by Gigatron on Friday, January 4, 2008 8:38 AM

Ok, so I'll go satin finsh, chipping around the control surfaces, very light chipping on the leading edges and exhaust stains.

 

Then I'm going to knock it into oblivion with a 15lb sledge hammer because this thing has been nothing but aggravating beyond belief.

-Fred

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Thursday, January 3, 2008 10:28 PM

All the photos in my collection of 414 a/c at Pontadero, Italy in late 44 show pretty shiny a/c. Not high gloss, but kind of like my Explorer if I don't wash it for a while. Lots of flat around the muzzles of the cannons. No, not on the Explorer!

Chipping wise, at least for these, almost nil except that the tape used to cover the control surface/ airframe joints on the ship over pulled up a bunch of paint and show bare metal.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Thursday, January 3, 2008 8:00 PM
From what I have read, a gloss finish would depict an aircraft straight from the factory. However, the black chipped and flaked away very fast and also faded extremely fast so more oft than not they would be a satin/flat appearance. I have seen one from the 418th NFS that looked like the tail booms had been sandblasted to bare metal after it had endured a Pacific Typhoon. If I were doing a 48th scale one, I would do it very patchy between satin and pure flat with alot of chipping on the leading edges, serious chipping.  I modeled mine after a fairly new aircraft and decided on a satin finish as I have read that in 72nd, you sheen would be hard to make out.

Eric

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by Gigatron on Thursday, January 3, 2008 10:27 AM

While we're on the topic of colors, mine is currently in a gloss coat of Future so I can decal it, but what is the final sheen on these birds?  Are they flat, gloss or satin?  I was going to go for satin as gloss looks funny and flat looked off.

Any ideas for certain?

Thanks,

Fred

BTW, I really hate this bird (revellograms incarnation of it, anyway).  No two pieces just fit together.  And the glass is horrendous.

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 11:18 PM

I had a long conversation this evening with my P-61 pilot source. The aircraft had four hard points, for which all could take a 1000 lb bomb, with a total flight time of 5 hrs if the bombs were dropped at some point.

The inner two points could take a tank from anywhere of 100 to 235 gallons, which is a pretty hefty 2000 lbs. Metal, not a drop tank if avoidable.

His squadron had all black a/c and the tanks were black, as all of his photos show.(He was the squadron photographer).

If they look any color other than black, our best guess is neutral gray which would have matched the undersides of the OD aircraft, or aluminum.

As for visibility, not an issue. In his theater which was the Med and Italy, the a/c would have radar search in five directions, plus were operating most of the time under ground radar control. The main nemesis was a maneuverable single engine a/c named "Hat Check Charlie" which had rear looking radar and was a tag along to the bomber formation, and tried to set up an ambush to following nightfighters.

He remembers the tanks being used as car bodies for salt flat racers.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 10:15 PM
Good question there. They are definetely NOT black like the rest of the photos in the book. Not sure whats going on there but then again, I am not a Widow expert either!! I painted mine flat black and cleared it with MM Satin Acryl. Didnt do a wash on it, being so small, I didnt think they panel lines should be too obvious anyways! Post some progress pics for us!

Eric

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Vallejo, CA
Posted by didfaI on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 10:07 PM

 Thanks for the info; "If you don't know, ask; then you'll know!"

OK, I can understand the possiblilty of these being new tanks (better made, etc.) and being rushed into service. Now, tell me, what crew member would want to fly in a 'dedicated night fighter' painted flat black (except for the oil stains), with 'WHITE' external (non-droppable) fuel tanks?

I understand that with radar their mission was to 'intercept', but there were other night fighters out there, in both theathers too!

I'm thinking Black Pearl dust coat over flat black for the top finish and flat black for the bottom with a grey wash.Cool [8D]

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 9:46 PM
You know, in my Squadron Widow in Action book, there are pics of the Lady of the Dark and the tanks actually look like they are white or a bright silver. It doesnt say anywhere in the book whether they were or not and there are other photos of other widows in the 549th and the 414th that look white so I would think it possible!?

Eric

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Vallejo, CA
Posted by didfaI on Wednesday, January 2, 2008 9:20 PM

OK, I'm building the B/W of the 418th NFGp '44. It shows that the aux gas thanks are 'white'!

Somebody clue me in on what's the right colr, please!Banged Head [banghead]

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Peoples Socialist Democratic Republic of Illinois
Posted by Triarius on Tuesday, January 1, 2008 10:31 PM
Mine were Aeromaster, AN48628 and AN48629.

Ross Martinek A little strangeness, now and then, is a good thing… Wink

  • Member since
    August 2015
Posted by sf_plane_nut on Monday, December 31, 2007 12:14 PM
 Triarius wrote:

 the pisser wrote:
and does anybody have a good source for decals?...i couldnt find a wheel and canopy mask set at the same place as the decals...i am not internet shopping savvy...

I found them at Roll Models



what is good manufacturer wise....their catalog is insanely extensive...could take hours to look through it all...not that its a bad thing...but i was having a hard time getting down to business and any advice would be great...
  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: From Vernal UT OH YEA!!
Posted by raptordriver on Sunday, December 30, 2007 12:38 PM

DSCF1447.jpg picture by Raptor94

DSCF1446.jpg picture by Raptor94

 This is just what I do if this is a bad way I'd like to know. What I do Before I start the kit is spray the appropriate colors of interior green to the right fusalage halves.

Andrew

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: From Vernal UT OH YEA!!
Posted by raptordriver on Friday, December 28, 2007 9:13 PM
 PM is on its way thanks for the offerSmile [:)]

Andrew

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Friday, December 28, 2007 9:03 PM
 raptordriver wrote:

 

DSCF1394.jpg picture by Raptor94

DSCF1389.jpg picture by Raptor94

DSCF1390.jpg picture by Raptor94

DSCF1391.jpg picture by Raptor94

 Well I thought I would just post pics of this old monogram thing. like I said the decals are useless so I must use AM.

Unless you are just absolutely wanting to use aftermarket decals. I've got two of the newer versions of that kit. I'd be more than happy to send you a set. I ain't gonna use them.

Let me know and I'll get 'em headed your way as soon as I can. 

Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: From Vernal UT OH YEA!!
Posted by raptordriver on Friday, December 28, 2007 8:03 PM

 

DSCF1394.jpg picture by Raptor94

DSCF1389.jpg picture by Raptor94

DSCF1390.jpg picture by Raptor94

DSCF1391.jpg picture by Raptor94

 Well I thought I would just post pics of this old monogram thing. like I said the decals are useless so I must use AM.

Andrew

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Friday, December 28, 2007 8:01 PM

Okee dokee guys! I'm gonna be off of here for a few days. Making the move to a bigger house with my own personal 'Man Cave'!!!

Cox won't be out until the 2nd to hook up the cable. So, it won't be then until I get back on here. But!! That's also when I'm hoping to start building again!!!

Y'all take care and I'll be back as soon as I'm able!  

Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: N. Georgia
Posted by Jester75 on Friday, December 28, 2007 7:50 PM

Wow guys, these Widows are looking great!!

Fred, looks like all the slaving you did over that engine paid off!

Eric

 

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