ARMOR - Panther (PzKpfw V) Group Build (any scale)

It's a late A, bud. But thanks for the info. I do have a Dragon early A, if I ever get around to building it!! lol

Sorry Bill, I guess I have Pantheritis. I see Panthers, Panthers, and more Panthers. I'd better finish mine soon, so they don't haul me away.

Hi Guys. Yeah I'm still alive, just been tied down keeping my folks place tidy while they are away. Gonna be a surprise when they come home tomorrow to find all the weeds pulled out of the gardens, grass mowed, outside of the house cleaned down and all the windows cleaned.

Good to see things moving along Bill. Remember the old sayings 'Haste makes waste' and "Slow and steady wins the race'.

Derek. My LHS is 15 mins away, but his stock is that bad that I only go to get paint and stuff. Told him when he brought in more than the old reissued Tamiya kits I might be tempted to buy something. When I got paint last week the store owner was packing up some of his stale stock and shipping them to another franchise store - figured he might have got the message.

For Kits, I get them from a couple of guys that visit my club's monthly meeting. These guys travel over an hour each month, and give us a discount to boot. (10% off their price which is already cheaper than other store prices). We make it worth their while to come all that way, but we also appreciate their efforts.

Tigerman, looking forward to see some pics when you can.

Well the D has had some further cosmetic work to make it a late D instead of the 'mid' pro I originally planned (early was out of the question due to the wrong air intakes in the kit). I had to remove the smoke dischargers and the cable connection from the turret and removed the side turret communication hatch, the pistol ports and fit the ones with rain gaurds (only slashed my fingers twice removing the originals). I also added the commander's direct sight and the gunners periscope rain guard (I actually shaved the kit one off for the earlier version) and reworked the jack retaining clasps 'cause the jack was stowed 'tipped over' on the late D's. Also fitted the kit 'surplus part' AA ring to the cupola as well.

Made up my own tool and track retaining pins using bits of PE fret, copper wire and Tiger Model Design's fine chain. This chain is superb!! It is made of copper and is exactly the same size as the retaining pin chain on my Aber fret (for the Ausf G I have). Beauty is that it is real chain and hangs like real chain. Patience was required to glue the ends to the pins and then the kit. Broke a coupe off moving them when the kit was painted to prevent them sticking (tracks are being done separately).

Just finished spraying the red brown base coat and Dunkelgelb over coat before I logged on. I'll take a few pics when the tracks have been painted and the running gear has all been assembled to the hull. Camo should be done by then too.

Picked up an airbrush today (Badger 350) and will try my first airbrushing on the Panther (after a little practice on some cardboard).

QUOTE: Derek, how considerate of the store to recommend you to their competitor. i guess they figured you were not worth the effort? well, see where it got them?

Yeah, my money spends at other places too

good luck with your badger claymore68!

Derek,
hope the airbrushing goes well.


i was having a rough time w/ mine last night.
trying to prime my IV-D, and the thing was just giving me fits.
i have to assume it was and I/O (incompetant operator) error,
as this is the first trouble i have had w/ it in ages.

when you have trouble spraying flat black, you know there is a problem!

(even farther off topic)
i always find it odd when merchants don't really seem to care if they sell anything or not.
i understand it when a store does not want to stock an entirely new line of paint
just because someone asked for a jar of it.
but not to order something when you could?
unless there is some type of 'minimum order' barrier, in which case they should just say:
"i would love to get the Gunze Sangyo Mr. Surfacer for you,
but i can only get it from Distributor X and they require a $50 minimum order.
can you wait until i get a few more things together to get the order up to minimum,
or help me pad it out by getting some more stuff from their lines?"

i mean, if there is a good reason that this can't be done, fine.
otherwise, don't get indignant when i get the stuff off the internet.



meanwhile, back on the Panther front:
keep after it, guys!
i am enjoying your updates & hoping for pictures.

ed.

Tigerman,
he he ... do you find yourself using the word Panther in any given sentence even if it doesn't fit... (kind of like that scene on "super troopers" when they pull the kids over at the first of the movie) Anyway... I completely understand...

WIldwilliam,
Hit it with something.... it always works for me... Ha Ha..BFH!

Claymore,
Hola Hombre... . Man don't go for that sissy boy cardboard... use a mans product......Silly Putty If you roll up the edges you can get a nice feathered edge. I don't recall if i ever used a 350 or not........hmmm.. I have a Pachaae H(sp?) and I just finnished freehanding the camo on a 1/72 Bf109 wingy thingy...shhh don't tell the other guys... (I got it for a desk model and it was on sale) Anywho... the H is awsome and fairly cheap at about 40 bucks... Its all steel guts make it a snap to clean up... just spray a little Carburator cleaner in it and viola... clean as the day it was new...
Good luck with your paint anyway...

QUOTE: just spray a little Carburator cleaner in it and viola... clean as the day it was new...

Now THAT'S a new one on me.

I have a Pasche VL, but haven't learned to control it yet. I keep returning to my Badger 200 for enamels or my Aztec for Acrylics.

I got the zimm down over that putty filled gap. It doesn't look too bad. And I brushed a couple of good old dunkelgelb over it. I may go in and hit it one more time with the airbrush, or just start getting some of the camo on it. Hopefully, I can get a little done tonight.

Bill

Bill,
attaboy!

Kenneth,
boy was i ever tempted!

Peter,
it sounds like your folks will be quite pleased w/ you!
good luck w/ your re-conversion.
and try to be careful!
you'll need those fingers for the next project!

Eric,
i am keeping an eye out for those first pictures.

ed.

I've been having a bit of trouble with my Badger 200 lately, too. It's started spitting little drops of paint. Sure glad I'm not doing a gloss finish!

Bill

Wipw: I use a PaascheVL here ... it took me a while to learn its works but now it is simple as heck , one trick with the paasche ,.... keep its controls (the innards under the control button) well lubed up with oil , 3 in one or wd40, it makes it much less touchy and sticky for that matter ! Like any double action brush the more you pull back on the button the more paint ( and mess )you make , I just barely pull back on it and use mostly air for my camo jobs . And use around 15 psi for the air , just enough ! as for your problem with the spatter , you may have a bit too much or little pressure , or you may have a bent needle tip ( as I do now )

WIPW,

Oh yeah... Carb Cleaner in the spraycan is the schiza! You don't even have to scrub the parts.... you can let enamel dry in the color cup for a month and wash it out in 3 min with carb cleaner... DON"T DO THIS AROUND PLASTIC!!! its like a HEAT round when it hits plastic.... melts it right up... It doesn't hurt the plastic (ABS) that the airbrush handle is made of for some reason but it will melt styrene faster than the best glue...

Funny and true story. I tried to use carb cleaner as a paint remover when I first tried it... I set an old M60 on a cinder block and sprayed it down real good. Well the paint slid right off so I left it to dry for a while... I came back that evening and went to pick up the model............the cinder block came up with it... No it glued all the roadwheels to the block to where I could pick it all up BY THE MODEL... I shook it a bit and nothing happened so I shook it a bit harder and all the roadwheel axles broke.... I was very impressed at two things... Its glueing power and Tamiya's axles for not snapping right off.

Wild...

Adventures in airbrushing! Think it turned out great except for one Boo Boo, [:0] between colors I ran some water through to clear the previous color and for the last color (green) I forgot to turn down the paint control knob (needle control?). Thank God I figured it out before getting much sprayed so I could touch it up!
BTW: I freehanded this.

Here's the pics, sorry about the bad lighting, it's cloudy so the bay window isn't much help.





Any and all comments and critiques welcome. I'm not sure I'm completely happy. I am concerned there may not be enough Dunkelgelb.
I realize there isn't much camo under the sponsons but that is gonna be really dirty anyway so it wouldn't show.

Kenneth: I paid $45.00 for this starter set, included 2 bottles, a color cup, hose, can of propellant, etc.

Peter: Not many would help out like that anymore, your parents will be pleased.

Derek,
I think it turned out Awsome!!!! No doubt!!! You definately have a bright future in airbrushing...

I think your color balance (coverage of each color) is perfectly fine... afterall these were painted in the field most often...
Can't wait to see it weathered...

what Kenneth said. Unless I'm doing a specific tank, I've always just put the colors on so they look about right to me. I might try to generally follow the pattern in the instructions or in a book, but I don't get too hung up on it. Usually, you don't get a drawing of all 4 sides and the top anyway.

It looks real good, Derek. I am still just amazed when I look at that turret! I wish we could get both of ours side by side sometime. That would be cool! (What am I saying??? I would be so humiliated!)

I THINK I've finally got the tracks back into two long pieces. Every time I fixed a link, one or two more would break! It didn't seem to matter how careful I was. Now I've got to get steel and silver on them! Oh, what joy!! lol

Bill

Looks good Derek. The more I see mine I cringe. It may be offbeat to a point, but I hope to get some pics up soon.

Derek,
looking good! i think the color balance looks fine.
my only critique is that there might be a bit of dunkelgelb peeking from between
the red & green.
of course, if you don't want the colors to meet, then you are fine.
but that was one (of the many) problem(s) i had when i painted mine.
getting the red & green to meet.
like i said, it depends on the effect you are looking for.
i was trying to close the gaps; you may not be.
i certainly have no reference that would indicate either way is 'right'.

the turret and wheels look great!

am i looking at it wrong, or did you leave off the outer 4 (per side) wheels
for the painting step you are on?

Bill,
i hope you have taught those tracks the error of there ways!
btw, i have the info for your antenna question.
kind of. my pzkpfw IV-D instructions say the antenna should be 5cm.
so that would be 175cm for the 1:1 version.
you'll have to see if that seems right.

ed.

Looking great Derek. I presume the drive sprockets are not glued down, as the one on the drivers side looks a little bent in the pic

Don't worry about the camo under the sponsons, the crews rarely painted up there, overspray at the lip being all that was needed. Camo was usually only sprayed on the inner hull between the drive sprocket and first road wheel where the crewman could actually get the spraygun inside.

The crews were only worried about what would be visible side on, and the wheels and tracks cover most of that; shadow from the sponson took care of the part above the top of the tracks.

Kenneth. Years ago I tried to remove Tamiya Acrylic paint from an old Krupp Protze model. The dunkelgelb didn't come off so well after a bath in caustic soda, and didn't think of oven cleaner at the time. I had the great idea of using some of Dad's household paint stripper. Worked a treat, just like you said, but then all the finer parts like steering gear, window frames etc melted.

Trying new ideas are great, we just gotta be prepared if it doesn't work out.

As I said before, my Aftermarket barrel was tied up in my suppliers order in Customs. He didn't have it at the time of my last club meeting. The trader is going to a big model show down south and won't be at the next meeting, so I have to wait another month. I thought I'd try and use the kit one anyway. Still trying to hide the seam that showed up after paint. He. He.

I will spray some camo on the D later, gonna bite the bullet and try freehand................Wish me luck.

Now that's a beauty, Derek. Cmon. finish it.

Bill are you using a compressor? I'm thinking too little pressure. I love the Badger 200. Best airbrush I ever owned. IMHO

Thanks for the comments all.

QUOTE: I think your color balance (coverage of each color) is perfectly fine... afterall these were painted in the field most often...

That's what I was thinking. I am much more satisfied now I look at it after work.

QUOTE: Unless I'm doing a specific tank, I've always just put the colors on so they look about right to me. I might try to generally follow the pattern in the instructions or in a book, but I don't get too hung up on it. Usually, you don't get a drawing of all 4 sides and the top anyway. It looks real good, Derek. I am still just amazed when I look at that turret! I wish we could get both of ours side by side sometime. That would be cool! (What am I saying??? I would be so humiliated!)

I'm not going for a specific vehicle so I should be safe. Would be great to see them side by side, I don't think you would be humiliated.

QUOTE: my only critique is that there might be a bit of dunkelgelb peeking from between the red & green. am i looking at it wrong, or did you leave off the outer 4 (per side) wheels for the painting step you are on?

I noticed that gap when I looked at the pics! Wasn't intentional and I'm gonna fix it in the AM when I...uhmm...make the barrel bands go around the bottom of the barrel too.
Yes the outer roadwheels are off. This is entirely due to me not figuring out a way mate the dragon wheels to the Tamiya chassis so that they could be removed for painting. I should have put more thought into it.

QUOTE: I presume the drive sprockets are not glued down, as the one on the drivers side looks a little bent in the pic

Good eye! Thanks for the catch, they aren't glued on so I'll have to see whats causing that and fix it.
Camber on Chevy: GOOD!
Camber on Panther: BAD!

hey claymore,
your kitty looks cool from where i'm standing!!
any mishaps you may have had with the airbrush are readily apparent, so i guess after weathering etc, she'll look just fine!
regards,
nick

Derek,
the camera 'sees' a lot more than the modeler.
the more pics i took, the more i found.
don't know if it's the different perspective or the flash making more light.

we must be using the same paint crew!
the bottom of my barrel was missed on the first run through as well!
and so was the lower part of the front hull!
doh!
looks like you got yours.

Peter,
that is a shame having to wait (& wait & wait) for the barrel.
not sure how much the Germans used it, but could you hide
some or all of the seam w/ camo netting or foliage ?
i would think they would have tried to break up the silhouette w/
something in the field.

ed.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman Bill are you using a compressor? I'm thinking too little pressure. I love the Badger 200. Best airbrush I ever owned. IMHO

Thanks, Eric;
Yes, I am. I checked last night and was running close to 25psi, so low pressure shouldn't be the problem. Maybe it's too high.

Ed;

QUOTE: i hope you have taught those tracks the error of there ways!

Nope, When I got home last night, I was cutting off the wire I'd used on one of the links and noticed yet another break. In working on that, the stupid track fell into another 2 sections, so I'm back to 3 sepearte mini sections again. I am very close to calling it quits on this set and getting a Friul Late Tiger set. I am REALLY disappointed and disgusted with these tracks. They really look cool, but I'd say are not worth the effort!

Bill,
i think i might be ready to confront the manufacturer w/ these problems!

i am astounded by your determination & patience.
i know you will find a way around or thru this problem.

ed.

QUOTE: Originally posted by wildwilliam Bill, i think i might be ready to confront the manufacturer w/ these problems! i am astounded by your determination & patience. i know you will find a way around or thru this problem. ed.

for "confront" read "drop thermo-nuclear device on"??

why, Nick, has someone told you about my temper?



i have a really long fuse.
but once the spark reaches the powder:
that's that.
katie bar the door . . .
hide the children . . .
run for cover . . .

now where is there a skull & crossbones around here?

kind of a non-threatening pirate!


Bill's situation might have worn out my cheerful good nature.

ed.

Well I got around to laying on the camo. Didn't forget to paint around the barrel or under the front......but did miss the part under the cleaning rod tube. I figured that the camo would not have been painted in more than one session on the real thing, so I painted the model with the turret in place. When the turret is turned you can see the dunkelgelb that was hidden, and while that is probably the way they looked on the real thing, it just looked odd on the kit. Went back and ran camo up to the turret ring on the hull but left the driver and radio operator's hatches as is. If that offends someone, then someone can sue me

Bill, I had the same probs with my airbrush, occasional splatter at the start of a stroke. Tried different pressures and still had a problem, so tried thinning the paint a bit more..........whoa, bad idea. Added a little too much thinner and this to the remaining red-brown I had. Ended up with a few 'spiderman' logo's at first, so the camo 'stripes' were made a little thicker than originally intended. I'm sure the amateur panther crew painter's had the same probs!

The camo scheme is off a pic I have of a Panzer 4, but what the hey, it suited my first attempt at a freehand effort (always used masks in the past).

These pics are a little raw, but weathering will take care of the few oversprays and such (I hope). Some touch up will still be required. The running gear and schurtzen is all loose, and tracks are still in two lengths that are just sitting there (one side has no tracks as I was setting the whole up to check the balance of my proposed Dio). The retaining pins for spare tracks and tools are all hanging loose. They are so fragile that I won't touch them again until the tracks and clevis (es.i?) are ready to be fixed. So here goes:

Holy cats, Peter, is your whole crew manned by decendents of Icabod Crane??? lol I think they should all get together and sue the person that cut their hair, it was obviously too darn close!

Seriously, Peter, it really looks great. Really nice looking D. I can't remember, did you scratch the front fenders, or are they AM? probably a silly question to ask someone with your scratching abilities!

Bill

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
headless germans!!!!!!!!
there coming for us
looks great petbat