ARMOR - Panther (PzKpfw V) Group Build (any scale)

Petbat,
i agree w/ you abt natural sunlight.
but it is winter here, so it is dark when i leave for work at 6:30 am,
and darkening hen i return home around 5:00pm
and today is very cloudy & overcast.
maybe on the weekend.
or maybe i will be able to borrow the lights.
i appreciate the tip on the light blue.
i have been using a tan/cream (manilla folder) background.

ed.

NIck, I perfectly understand about not wanting to do the manufacturers job for them. No doubt. I have built two sets of fruils (one for a Styer tractor and one just the other day for a King Tiger) Both had to have at least a quarter of the links poked through with a needle. It seems common though some sets have more than others. I like the fruils because there is just a bit over zero concentration required to build them. I built this last set while watching movies in the evenings. I don't mess with trying to cut the wire to length or any of that. I did that on the first set and it about drove me nutz. I just lop the wire into lengths a little long, pin them in an go back with a set of flush cutting clippers and dress'em up. Bottome line is just give them a go some time. Yes they are pricey, but they are not always needed. (on the KT they were very needed) If you build as slow as I do it isn't really a problem. Those guys who are superbuilders and knock out a kit in a couple of weeks might have a problem.
I think I can speak for everyone in that we didn't mean or want to "open up a can of worms" but at the same time I / we didn't want to discourage anyone from trying anything new.... Point of the hobby it to have fun... if it ain't fun or at least gratifying in the end don't do it....But do try it for yourself.. don't take our rumblings to heart...

Later Friend

kenneth thanks man...i think i might just give 'em a go! i've got a is-2 and isu-152 awaiting construction, and i guess that russian armour probably benefits the most from the "saggy" look that only indie tracks can give.
just needed that reassurance!
regards,
nick

Nick, Yep the Russian iron just don't look right with nice tight tracks... That would be a good tester... Good luck...

I certainly didn't mean to maline indy tracks or to disuade anyone from trying them. If I did, even temporarily, I appologize. I enjoy, for the most part, the indy's I've just been having a lot of trouble with the ones for the Panther. I think they are misengineered, but I'm only talking about the Panther! For my next one, I'll get a set of Friuls. I didn't mind having to "clean the holes" up. I put a drill in my pin vice, held it up to see that the drill was long enough go go to the last link, but not through it, clamped down the pin vice and went to it. It really wasn't much more work than not doing it. In fact, since I held the two links together, it made sure the holes in the links were all lined up. Then I took the coil of supplied wire and pushed in into the two mated links 'til it reached the end. Then I cut off the wire (using fine tipped wire cutters, not sprue cutters) off about a quarter of an inch from the link. and put a small drop of thick (do not use thin) super glue on the join for the wire and the link. I'd do about 10 links or more, then let them set for a while. Over night, usually, but that was because I did them late at night. Next day, I'd go back and trim of the wire as close as I could to the link. Watch for flying wire!! Use eye protection for this one! I tried thin super glue on a couple of links thinking it would set up faster and I wouldn't have to wait for the glue to set up. Well, that part was right, but the thin glue wicked down the wire and froze the link. Next set, I will probably use thin brass rod instead of the supplied wire, though. Sometime the wire catches and kinks up a little going through the links. I think the rod will go through a little easier.

I was going to put a plastic ring on the bottom of the turret, after putting the turret in the hull, to hold the turret to the hull. But I think I've changed my mind. The turret is so heavy (being an almost solid block of resin) that I think it will make it more difficult to transport it if it's attached. So I'm just going to set the turret in the hole in the hull. I didn't get much of anything else done last night, as about half of my family, including me, is sick. Mostly I just worked on repinning the tracks. I think I'm gaining on them!! lol

Have fun.

Too bad I couldn't remember the thread that stated how Russian tank crews were supposed to check on their tracks and so on. In other words, there shouldn't be any sag on their tanks.

Eric,
the thread was:
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15168
and the link it referred to was:
http://www.gjames.com.au/chris/t34/t34-service-7.html

you might be overstating it when you say "there shouldn't be any sag"
the 'manual' says : "2. Check the track tension"
but gives no reference to how tight or loose it should be.
it also mentions lubing the 'track adjustment mechanism'

but that is about it.

well, i was allowed to borrow the obsolete photo table.
but i have not been able to get it set up to my liking yet.
close, maybe.
the fact that the bulb in one side is twice as bright as the one on the other side does not help much.
nor does the fact that it was designed to shoot pictures from directly overhead.
i rotated it 90 degrees, and build a new (cardboard) platform, using the old one
as a back drop.
but there are still lighting issues.
sigh.

ed.

ed.

Ed, the best laid plans of mice and men (and photographers)!!!

Bill, hope you and the family get better soon.

I made some nice tow cables from fine brass wire and foil for my D but when I went to fit it I found that there is not enough room between the sparetrack links and the rear D shackle to fit one! Then I checked my reference pics, and all but two photo's of the D I have don't have cables fitted, and in one shot it was fitted to the shacle not the post that was made for it! I think i'll leave them all off.

One set of Indy tracks fitted and waiting for glue to set. Drilling out the guide horns really improves the look. When next side is done I will start painting. Pics to come.

Dwight, are you still reading this thread? Just found out MIG productions makes resin replacement air intakes for the Kursk vintage early D. Only 6 Euro ($7-70 USD) including airmail postage from Blast Models. If only I knew before.

Petbat, I still say you are tha man for drilling out those horns... I wish I had that kind of patients and time... wow! I am really looking to see your Panther...

Peace

Here are a couple of pics. They are kind of old, now, as Ron's sites been down for so long.

This one shows the rings I cut out to adapt the resin turret to the Tamiya hull. I've since decided not to use the large ring.

[image]http://rongeorge.com/albums/upload/PantherTurretRings.sized.jpg[/image]


And in this one, I've added a few of the "little" parts, including "Hans". (A figure painter I'm not!!) The headlight from the Tamiya Pz IV On Vehicle Equipment set sure looks better than the kit headlight that's about twice the size!

[image]http://rongeorge.com/albums/upload/PantherUpperHull1.sized.jpg[/image]

I've added the antiaircraft machine gun mount to the commanders cupola ring, and put in a little more plastic for the bottom of the sponsons.

Have a good day,

Bill

Wipw,
Looking real good man... That OVS from Tamiya is a God send isn't it... I wish I had about 20 of those around the house... Your Panther is looking real good. I like the Zim pattern. The little fella sticking his head out of the upper hull is like ....why won't it go? Can't wait to see some more pics...

peace

QUOTE: The little fella sticking his head out of the upper hull is like ....why won't it go?

LOL!
Yeah, I think he's missing a few links, all right!! lol
He's also missing the lower half of his body, but shhhh, I don't think he's noticed, yet! lol

Bill:
hope u & the rest of the family r feeling better...that flu thing is just awful !
on the other hand, ur Panther is looking great !
got 2 try doing that zimmerit stuff one of these days...

frosty

Thanks, all.

My family is getting there slowly, Frosty, thanks for asking. And yes, it is nasty! But whatever it is, I don't think it's the flu.

Bill

Thanks for correcting me Ed, that is true about the sag.

Bill, looks great. Your a heckuva better figure painter than I am.

Thanks, but I think the picture looks better than the real deal, in this case!! lol
You can't see how cross-eyed poor Hans has become with that hatch hitting him in the back of the neck all the time!! lol

Bill

QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw Thanks, but I think the picture looks better than the real deal, in this case!! lol You can't see how cross-eyed poor Hans has become with that hatch hitting him in the back of the neck all the time!! lol Bill

LOL. Reminds me of a story my friend tells, from when he was in the Aussie Army Reserves. He was driving a M113 APC through a field of long grass when he drove smack bang into a tree stump...instant stop. The vehicle commander was standing up at the time, and the force of energy slammed the cupola hatch into his back pushing him forward against the cupola ring. He suffered severe abdominal bruising, cracked ribs and a dislocated shoulder. My friend's punishment was that he had to stay and wait for the engineers to come fix the front drive sprocket and torsion bars (bent) - many hours later.

I don't envy you the work you have done to fix the old Tamiya A , Bill. Most of my work (apart from the interior) has been minor cosmetic.

Started work on the Part PE Fenders. I had intended to give everything a coat of paint first, but I think the fender assemblies will be robust enough to handle the kit during painting. The instructions with the fret are a little vague, and the drawing and part numbers for left and right don't seem to coincide. I visited a site with pics of how it should look, which matched the instruction drawing, so I figured the parts were numbered wrong. Built the first one that way, then realised that the raised panel lines were underneath, not on top as they should be. If I turned it inside out I lost some etched rivet/bolt detail! Ended up doing them as numbered, but one has now suffered some 'battle damage' being rolled back the same way as the other.

I fianlly got enough time to finish using the airbrush to put the yellow on my Panther, using Tamiya color all the way. I primed it with Brown, put on layers of:

50/50 dark yellow/flat earth (this is as far as I painted the no-see-um sides of the roadwheels)
Dark yellow (this is as far as I went with the out-facing sides of the roadwheels)
50/50/Dark yellow/Buff
Buff

Overall, I did not get the shading that I wanted. I was hoping not to use a wash on the vertical surfaces, as it might look weird on the zimmerit, but I don't like the way my shading with just the airbrush went on the tank, and I think it needs a wash. I think I will put an extremely light wash of burnt umber on the zimm..

I painted the wheels with a circle template -- not perfect, and I'll have to touch them up, but it's a start.

Anyway, here's the stuff. Yet to be painted are the treads -- still holding the pushpins in the last five links so I can adjust final lenght -- and the tools. I think I'll paint the tools steel, then yellow, then rub off some of the yellow on the tools while the paint is still semi-wet.. (Of course, the shovel will be black and light wood, not yellow. Haven't made up my mind about the fire hydrant yet -- I have ten different answers from ten different people on what color they were.)

(I forgot to include the two accurate armour steel cables in the pic -- also unpainted.)

So far, I'm about 60% happy with results for effort expended.

Looking good Larry.

She's looking great, Larry. Hope to see her completed soon.

Love the carpet, too. LOL.

hi guys,
finally finished!!! yahoo!!!
put some figures on the back of the tank (you know, the camo jackets that take an age to paint!!) and gave the kitty her final dusting of pastels.
managed to take some pics as well, but i still have no way of making my digital camera "talk" to my pc...when i finall work it, i'm gonna have about a hundred pics to bore you all with.
thanks for all the help out there guys.
this was real fun.
reagrds,
nick

Nick,
congratulations! hope you get the camera stuff sorted out.
really want to see the pictures!

Larry,
looking good. of course the pictures never seem to pick up the subtleties
of the shading, so i can't really see why you are unhappy w/ the state of it.
but it seems you are geeting close to final assembly.
i am no Panther expert, and i did not know what to do w/ that bottle on the side either.
i thought it was a fire extinguisher, but maybe that's what you meant.
in any case, i decided that mine got painted on the tank, as original equiptment.
so it got the dark yellow.

Peter,
sounds like you got a case of 'Ed-itis' w/ your PE.
when i did my first PE set (on a wingy-thing, 1/32 ME-163 Komet)
i did pretty much the same thing.
i was SURE that the instructions were backward, or that i was reading them wrong.
until i got the piece folded.
THEN it was clear!
and i used to be so good at those diagrams in the standardized tests.
(when folded, object one will look like a, b, c or d ?)


Bill,
did you make any more progress?

Derek,
where are you at in this?
i have not shot the final Panther pics yet.
but i did get the photo table from work.
used it to shoot pics of a T34/85 i did for the 'weekend group build'
still sorting out the bugs (shadows, etc)
but i should have the rest of the pictures and text together soon.

Press On, Men!

ed.

Nick, I cannot wait to see your pics... I hope you find some what to upload them so's we can see them....

Larry, Super dude... Like Ed said... its hard to pic out the subtleties on the computer but from here its looking awsome.... I really like to look of the whole build. The Zim looks sweet! Yep the fire bottles could just about be any color... from red to green to base camo... I tend to side with the base camo or perhaps red on occasion to throw in some color... I like the shade of yellow you have choosen... It will look very nice with a bit of weathering.. I think your right it needs a wash though if only a very light one just for a bit of discolorment...(word?) anyway... Keep us posted bud... BTW nice rug!

Petbat... Ha ha ... I did the same thing... they really are not clear on which way to fold them but once you figure that out then its pretty easy. Yeah the fenders are strong but I would suggest putting a bit of 5min epoxy under the side mounts as added insurance... Superglue doesn't seem to want to keep then seated...I knocked mine off repeatedly which is exactly why it ended up on a handle... Good luck at any rate...

All, I got my crew built... The commander ended up being built from about 20% milliput. My first foray into sculpting.. hmmm. His coat below the belt is all milliput and the upper 1/4 of both arms... I'll start painting tonight.... I got a really great book with some awsome figure painting stuff in it. Its a new series by squadron and the first book mainly covers a superdetailed tiger and its crew.... The book title is Armor something.. i forget.. but check it out... (it has a tiger on the cover)

I thank you, and my rug thanks you.

That's actually the place in the house best for photographing models, for some reason. My wife has persian rugs all over the house -- it's hard not to find a surface without one. I'm the Sultan of Westchester!

Peter, I know what you mean. It seems that vague instructions are the order of the day for PE stuff. Especially fenders!! I should post a pic of the ones for the Elefant! What a mess!

Larry, looks terrific! (The tank does, too!!! lol) Seriously, your Panther is really nice. And the zimm looks awesome! Congrats.

I didn't get anything else done over the weekend. I got too busy with wife's birthday, weekend group build, church stuff, etc. Hopefully, I'll get a little done tonight. This is really dragging out for me, especially considering I'm not doing any pe on it!

Have a great day!

Ed: I'm STILL doing PE! actually I'm waiting for some Eduard clamps, several of the Aber units broke while I was trying to assemble them.

Nick: did you try the windows photoshop program to see if it will have the drivers for your camera ? I know adobe photoshop has most of them in the program itself should be in the file/import section at the top left Larry:

QUOTE: Originally posted by spector822002 Larry: nice job in the zimmerit , are you going to leave it single color or go for the camo ? Looks nice as is! But it is definatly beginning to come together for sure .

Thanks Spec, and the rest of you for the encouraging words. I'm going for an all-yellow Panther -- a specific tank from the 5th SS Panzer Regiment (Wiking's panzer regiment). I'm going to have to work harder to give it some depth though -- my airbrush skills just aren't up to giving great depth to a monotome vehicle in a light color. I could always give it a whitewash though -- particularly appropriate for the early A's in 5th SS.

Or I could paint it as tank 501, which had an interesting green and brown overspray, which would be challenging to do but would look pretty cool. I'm resisting it though because the temptation to do an all-yellow tank is strong. It's the challenge.

QUOTE: Originally posted by spector822002 Nick: did you try the windows photoshop program to see if it will have the drivers for your camera ? I know adobe photoshop has most of them in the program itself should be in the file/import section at the top left Larry: nice job in the zimmerit , are you going to leave it single color or go for the camo ? Looks nice as is! But it is definatly beginning to come together for sure .

thanks spector, i'll have a poke around and see if i can get it all to work.
regards,
nick

Update: Primer coat is drying! Pics, possibly today - maybe tomorrow, to follow!
A refresher: Tamiya Panther Ausf A, Aber PE, Fruil tracks and scratch turret.
New info: I have decide this will represent a Falise survivor of the 116th Pz. Div. (Only 12 116th div. tanks and 600 men survived.). The intent is to show how one may have appeared during the refit of the division at Dusseldorf (late September through October '44) before being sent back to Aachen after combat at Calais, Falise, and Aachen.