ARMOR - Panther (PzKpfw V) Group Build (any scale)

Wild W. The Tamiya Red brown is great for use as a primer colour for vehicle interiors. I use it for this, and overspray a mist coat of the real main colour to give a 3D effect. You will be amazed at the difference to a straight off-white or buff clolour. I am in the last stages of detail painting the Ausf D's interior (adding knobs, cables and handles to radio units) and should be able to post a pic or two to show this method of painting next week.

The interior has taken far longer than I expected. I can't wait to finish the interior so I can glue the hull together and start the outside final details.

I'm still waiting on my Armo Aluminium barrel. My supplier got some in, but they were all for Tamiya not a mix of Tamiya and Dragon as he ordered; The Tamiya ones don't fit without work. He has re-ordered them, but is not sure when they will arrive. He won't be at my club's March meeting, so I will need him to mail it or I would have to wait for the first Saturday in April.

Upside, he had some PE from a company called 'Voyager' out of China. Never heard of them before, but after looking at what he had I bought a set of German tool clamps and clasps. This set is just like Aber's 3 piece sets, and comprises 19 early type clamps and 20 late type (each set has 3 different lengths for the different tool types) and cost me only AUD $3-50 (about USD$2.75). Once I've bent a few I will let you know what they are like.

Keep on building

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kennethc The tow cable ends were held to the rear deck with a open u shaped bracket welded to the rear deck about 18 inches from each side and a couple inches in from the back. It had a pin that held the cable in the bracket. EDIT, Here is a pic. Its mid way up on the left side... above the toolbox. Model by:Gunnar Jansson

kennethc thanks for that info, although i fear it's now a bit too late to add those little brackets to my kitty (just waiting for dull coat, pastels and maybe some mud, although the latter might result in disaster!)...shame as i went to alot of trouble getting aftermarket tow cables and all that...oh well
seen some great looking pics as ever...
regards,
nick

Ty for the pixkenneth I can already see something i did wrong on the track attachment at the rear of my tank , there are pins in them babies in your pic , I have mine attached to the link sprocket guides , DOAH!!! Time for an overhaul! Amazing how a picture of a trully nice model brings you crashing back down to reality , there are builders out there in a level I may never achieve

Spector, THIS one is hung by the track pins but I have seen both ways so don't worry about it... Its just like anything else there are almost always more than one way to do something... I really wouldn't worry about it.........really!

Peace

Kenneth, that Gunnar Jansen model is looking pretty good. It raises some issues for me all over again.

1) The grill screens look very realistically dented in. I've tried to do that on mine, but it just doesn't look as natural.

2) The spare treads on their hangers look very realistic. I don't know what to do about that. The friuli are just too thick to sit reralistically on the etched rack, but that's what my tank is wearing. I could use the kit links, drilled out of course, but they are a lot thinner. Maybe MK is the way to go after all, but they are so fragile and hard to build. I tried them once for a panzer iii but gave up on them.

Meanwhile, my new compressor arrived yesterday, delivered by some German snow dudes. So I'll paint up my critter in the next few days.

Kenneth: What site did you get that panther pic from ? How those guys get those paint finishes on the tanks to appear so real is beyond me

Spector & Kenneth,
i think they could be done either way.
also, someone here mentioned that the kit links have
the pin ends molded in, even tho thereis no actual pin in the one end.

of course, if you look THAT closely at my Panther, you will find worse mistakes!
:-)

well, i fiddled w/ some concepts to anchor the cable end.
Kenneth's picture is excellent, but when i went to fabricate that i ran into problems.
a scale clamp of that size would mighty delicate.
i was going to use the left over fret from my Tamiya Zim rakes,
but when i tried to drill it w/ my pin vise, it smacked me and took my lunch money!

so i eyed my enormous styrene collection and got out my calculator.
i thought 1/2" would be a reasonable thickness for the steel plate used.
but at 1/35, that is a bit over .015
i had the feeling this was not going to work out, as the cable WOULD
actually be connected to this.

so i punted.
i took some styrene rod that matched the diameter of the rod that holds
the front eye, drilled two holes in the rear deck, inserted the rod w/ a
bit of CA, painted the rod to blend in w/ the camo that surrounds it
(one red, one green) and called it 'good'.
or 'good enough'.

now i just have to figure out how to get this styrene cable to drape
more convincingly. i have put it in recently boiled water,
but that has not helped much.
i am afraid to use flame, but i might.

if i had some decent string, i would steal the ends from the kit piece
and soak the string w/ Elmers to form it.
then paint it.

suggestions?

ed.
or just let it hang.

Larry Glad your compressor showed up... and could you tell them snow dudes to get back to Arkansas.. I need to talk to'em!!!

I am pretty sure those are MK tracks on Gunnars Panther. It is a fantastic model for sure. Your right about the Fruils. They seem a bit heavy to me, which is fine for the tracks on the tank but you start to notice it on the stowed tracks. Why did you give up on the Pz IIIs I know they are fiddley. I actually gave up on those Panther tracks the first time I tried to build them a couple of years ago.. I shelved'em until this project. Then when I tried agian...it seemed to work so much better. A piece of fine wire and some supper glue is about all you need to assemble them...

I'll tell you I started to use an etched rack for my tracks but after checking the refs... These were actually pretty thick steel. They would have to be to withstand the jarring of 100 pounds of track bouncing around on them. The etched racks just didn't look in scale at all to me... Just my 2 cents...

We'll be waiting for pics come monday.... Larry,

On the home front. I got started back on my crew last night. I got the commanders body built. (combo of tamiya legs, Tristar torso, DML head and Milliput) The radioman is built from parts of a Tamiya dude in a snow suit. The driver...well I don't know yet. I believe there will be some grenadiers on the rear deck. And some of the refugees are due in the mail today... Along with Verlindens Figure painting book. This ought to be fun... figs are NOT something I am any good at at all....

I broke the itty bitty sight vane off the cupola last night... sigh.... I got to replace that before the club meeting on Sat....

Wildwillam, YES they are delicate... I broke mine off about 20 times before I got it finnished! ..... (((Oh dang thats funny about the lunchmoney crack....!))) Anyhow... If you have a Home depot nearby I have heard that they have copper or brass picture hanging wire that is a perfect match for German tow cables (7 strands, left twist)... That would be my suggestion.. Or find twisted wire thats similar... I have used string, plastic, and about everything in between and nothing looks or reacts like metal... Currently my tank has twisted solder tow cables... which works great but doesn't look that cool because its too thick and only has 3 strands...

Spector, Its off Missing-lynx.com's gallery

I agree that the etched racks look flimsy. I'm a little alienated with Etch at this point, though it doe have its uses. I think etched cupola rings are also too thin.

I gave up on the PzIII MK set because it kept coming apart after I had constructed lenghts of it. Too fragile for my kind of build. Maybe I just have gorilla hands.

Oh sure... Eched has its place, but you right a lot of times the items they provide don't need replacing.
Yep I broke mine a couple of times while i was painting and installing them. It is frustrating indeed. Thats about the only thing I really favor with the furils.. Once they are built you can beat the neighbors dog with them and they won't come apart... Very handy for those of us on the "ham fisted" side...

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kennethc Yep I broke mine a couple of times while i was painting and installing them. It is frustrating indeed.

What did you do? Did you repair the whole length or just stick it on the tank broken in such a way that it didn't need fixing?

QUOTE: Once they are built you can beat the neighbors dog with them and they won't come apart...

That's actually my favorite use of the friul treads.

QUOTE: What did you do? Did you repair the whole length or just stick it on the tank broken in such a way that it didn't need fixing?

most of them were pins that were not glued good and fell out.. so I just put new pins in. The broken ones I just glued and put the "stiff spot" on ground side so it didn't matter. On the whole I think the MKs look better but the fruils are more user friendly... Last night I put together a half a side of Fruil tiger II links while i was watching a movie. Its kind of a mindless task unlike the MKs! I found that they take about the same time to build since the Fruils require a little clean up (poking out the holes) while the MKs don't need clean up (with a good set of flush cutters) but have more parts.... In that respect I have no favorite..

Kenneth,
won't i have the same problem w/ wire?
too stiff, won't drape, etc
or will it hold bends?

ed.

Wildwilliam, Depends.. Copper or brass no you shouldn't.. Steel.. more likely. In any case you can heat it red hot over a flame and let it cool.(take the temper out of it) From then on its your biach... do with it what you will It'll stay.

Good Luck

looks like it is off to the hardware store!

now, where will i find red-hot flame ?
:-)

ed.

I was putting the rust wash on my MK tracks last night. One side went okay, but the other...totally broke apart in one place, and broke loose on one side in three others! All about an inch or so apart. I'm going to have to look and see where these breaks are compared to the "stiff" sections I glued together because of breakage before. I could have a problems if they are too far appart! What I did before on some of them, was to cut off the bolt casting from the pin, then drill out both of the links where the pin were, and finally, glue a new pin back in. But most of the pins that broke were of the "outside" type, and I'm not sure I have enough extra pins left! What I might try doing is to shear off the bold head detail in one complete piece, drill out the links, glue in a metal pin or wire, then glue the bolt head back on the link. I don't think it will be any tougher and will be much stronger! (And doesn't need any of the extra pins!)

Bill,
bad deal!
but you seem to have the solution worked out.

i was able to bet picture wire at the LHS (local hardware store!)
at lunch.
10 feet, twisted wire.
looks like the right size.
i opened it up and it holds a bend,
so i will harvest the kit eyes (or make eyes in this)
and form it to shape.

THEN I AM DONE !!!!

ed.

Way to go Ed!!
Congrats!

I probably won't get any modeling time in tonight! With browbeating my kids to do homework, b-ball practice for one of the, and valentine's prep to do for my two youngest (getting Valentine's and candy for them to take to school!), I don't think I'm going to have much "down" time!

Bill

Careful, Bill!
you want to watch out for premature congratulations!
[:0][:0]

now the pressure is really on for me to wrap this up.
then i have to shoot the pictures and get them to Derek,
so i can wrap up my long-winded pages on the group site.

ed.

QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw I was putting the rust wash on my MK tracks last night. One side went okay, but the other...totally broke apart in one place, and broke loose on one side in three others! All about an inch or so apart.

Bill, that is exactly what drove me CRAZY about the MK links. They are too fragile.

I spent all that time putting them together, and they betrayed me!

QUOTE: Originally posted by wildwilliam Careful, Bill! you want to watch out for premature congratulations! [:0][:0] now the pressure is really on for me to wrap this up. then i have to shoot the pictures and get them to Derek, so i can wrap up my long-winded pages on the group site. ed.

Well, i did not fold under the pressure!
the picture wire i got was too thick for the ends.
and i did not want to make new ends.
so i pulled out some strands and twisted it up.

the pictures are below (if i can remember how to do it!)
my problem is the pics w/ the flash are too stark and look shiney.
the ones w/o are too dim.
i shot 71 digital pictures and kept 11!
the rest were even worse than the ones i show here.
i decided to show you 2 w/ the flash & 2 w/o.

i really need to work out the lighting issues, but i am going
away again this weekend, and i wanted to show you all the model.

enough excuses, here we go:








thanks to RonUSMC for hosting the pics.
i only wish they did not end up next to J-Hulks excellent BMP.
it makes them look even worse.

i'd like to say thanks to the whole armor gang, and esp the Panther Group.
this is my first tank, and i am very happy w/ it, even tho i see a great number
of things i would do differently (better).
of course, that's the point of building, right?


when i get back, i will try to get some better pictures,
and get my section on Derek's Panther pages finished.
Thanks also to Derek (Claymore) for hosting a page for us,
and for being such a good sport as i mail him so much stuff.
did i get carried away, or were you guys slacking?


ed.

Nice job, Ed. You did a really nice job with the build and especially the paint.

My only concern is with the cables you made. Or at least how you have them laying. I think if the cables were hanging like that, they would be getting hung up on all kinds of stuff bopping through the countryside, to say nothing of possibly fouling the tracks. You might want to consider running them up over the rear hull somehow.

Congratulations of getting finished up. It really looks good. The extra track links are supurb!

Looks real good Ed, ditto Bills comments on the tow cables, everything else looks godd though. Get those pics and pages to me and I'll get them up.
Now I need to get motivated! Can probably wrap mine up this weekend.

Wildwilliam, The paint job turned out great bud. I didn't realize this was your first tread job till now... AWSOME I am very impressed. I think you have done very well indeed. I do tend to agree with the boys above about the tow cable though... While it looks GREAT and you did a super job fitting it to the kit ends which we all know can be quite the pain, the cables probably need to be tucked up a little .. True you see them hanging down a lot but probably not so much that they risk getting caught in the tracks...

The paint and weathering turned out very well. Your color choices and pattern look super. I am looking forward to seeing more of your work... Keep it up...

Bill & Derek,
hmmm . . .
i will either have to make them shorter or longer!
i think they are a bit short to cross them in the back
(hang the back of the right cable on the left pin and vice versa)
and too long to run neatly down the sides.

but i see what you are saying.

if i want to make them lay on the rear deck,
i will either have to put a loop in them on the deck,
put in another pin (on the deck) to route them around
or something.
because if i just pull the slack up on the deck,
i would expect it to vibrate off

i appreciate your comments & the criticism.
i put the pix up this morning, and was starting to worry no one came to this thread anymore!
[:0]

i am out of town this weekend, then i will see abt a fix.
and getting some better pictures.

EDIT -
and thank you too, Kenneth.
you posted while i was typing before.
i had started a Pzkpfw IV-D before the Panther,
but i shelved it when i joined the group build.
So the Panther is the first kit i FINISHED, but the 2nd one i started.ed.

A real "low end" kind of primary question.

Where does the end of the power cable that goes to the headlight go? I've never been able to find a picture that shows where the cable winds up. The muzzel is in the way, or the angle's wrong, or something. I looked through my "electronics tool box", and I have 3 or 4 different sizes of solder, so I should be able to get something close size wise.

Thanks.

And Ed, wasn't criticism, just observations. Really amazing this is your first tank kit, finished or otherwise!

Bill

Bill,
i meant constructive criticism!
not to worry, i appreciate it.
and i understand the spirit in which it is offered.

i could make a LONG list of things i should have done different!

i am leaving straight from work, so i can't see if any of my books answer that question.
if you can wait til monday . . .
i can check when i get back.

enjoy the weekend all!
keep building!

Wipw, Congrats on the 4th star... I forget which mark you are building but this is for the G version had the wire running just a bit away from the light base on the fender then turned 90 degrees and ran back to the inside edge of the fender where it meets the hull. It disappeared under the edge of the fender there and presumably went into a hole in the hull somewhere under there. The others I really don't know so don't get me to lying

Bill, yes congrats on reaching 1000.

The D and A versions had a hole through the armour plate where the light fitting is attached. You don't see the cable. Only the late G where the light was relocated to the fender has a visible cable as Kenneth has shown.