BIG CATS GROUP BUILD 2008

Thunderbolt379- I know the FSM article you mean, i have it close to hand whenever i am building armour. I like the use of pastels as my main means of weathering. But i have gone off the idea of dry brushing useing more and more white until its just straight white. This is not realistic at all. His book on armour modelling is very useful, but again there are a few things that i don't personally favour, sutch as the use of scale colour or putting down a primer. But i guess thats just down to personal taiste.

What do you think of his idea that armour should be finished with a gloss or semi gloss finish.

The dio i will be doing will be my Tiger, which is the one in the pic you mention, haveing its engine looked at. And next to it will be the Schimm also being repaired. It was originally going to be a Kubel, but after seeing that pic i decided to try to do the schimm in the photo. There are two more photos from the same sequence showing other Tigers with the same schimm in them.

Ok here is a new pic (about the only good one) sorry this is all I could get, my camera isn't really the best. I will say though that the yellow is really how it looks and the mud is polyscale (which looks somewhat like the basecoat) and then I added some mud from the Tamiya weathering kit (the one with dust, light dust, and mud)

I know you probably want more but this is the best I was able to get SMJ

Specter wrote:

I know you probably want more but this is the best I was able to get SMJ

Better than before!  What camera are you using and does it have a macro setting?  The reason I ask is most newer cameras have the setting and are enough pixels to get a good shot.  I use a blue poster board from WalMart and tape it down on my desk, curving it up a wall then tape the top edge (no seams in backdrop).  Then I use two desk lamps (60 watt incadescents), on either side of he build, one close one a bit back...then click, take the photo, that's about as basic as it gets but it works.  Try that!

...Anyway, I like your build, the camo is especially well done! I like the tracks and road wheels too..nice work! It could use more weathering, IMO, maybe start with some heavier washes.  The tracks on the turret are a bit clean too.  Fine effort, definately badge worthy! 

By the way, try that photo technique before this GB ends because I will be asking everyone to post their fav' pic' (or I'll choose) and assemble them in a gallery format to share in GB's and in Armor.

Thanks SMJ, my camera is a FinePix A400 with 4.1 mega pixels  and does have a macro setting. I'll definately try out those techniques you explained.

As for the weathering, I'm still learning the ins and outs of oil washes (not trying to make excuses) and will keep on trying. I'm also going to keep my eye out for those Mig pigments I've heard so much about.

As for the badge. Do you want me to fix her up more post pics and then take the badge? It makes no difference to me.

Specter wrote:

As for the weathering, I'm still learning the ins and outs of oil washes (not trying to make excuses) and will keep on trying. I'm also going to keep my eye out for those Mig pigments I've heard so much about.

Theres an artical on wahes in the July 08 FSM that could help you.

My tiger is the only build I've bean working on this week and I going to spray it later today so I may have pics tomaro......

Hi guys,

Contemplating the paintjob on my Tiger -- what would folks recommend as a good match for German rotbraun in enamels? Humbrol or Model Master -- what are their matches like?

Mike/TB379

Specter wrote:

As for the weathering, I'm still learning the ins and outs of oil washes (not trying to make excuses) and will keep on trying. I'm also going to keep my eye out for those Mig pigments I've heard so much about.

They are big $$$, about 7$ a piece...just grib=ng down your own chalk pastels, this was advice I got!!!...works great!

Specter wrote:

As for the badge. Do you want me to fix her up more post pics and then take the badge? It makes no difference to me.

Take the badge now...

Cool advice on the pastels, thanks

I'll have the new pics by the time the gb is over.

Well heres where I'm at now I've painted and done an oil dot filter and have added Mig pigments and paint chiping but I was to exited building it to take any pics. Also the paint job is the 3ed redo I could'nt get it how I liked it (I'm VERY picky)

All coments welcome!

I'm making headway on the Panther D w/zimmerit.  The travel lock has been installed and the basic turret assembly is complete.  The next few sessions at the bench will be all about the iddy biddy photo etch brackets, clamps etc.

    Great job on the PE chain. Just about drove me nuts putting all those pieces together in my recent Panther builds.  Never did get them in perfect register and in the process, I glued my fingers together about a dozen times.    I've been quietly following your build and look forward to seeing it progress. 

 Don

Hi guys,

Stickman -- excellent job! The rust is particularly realistic, teamed with the damage to the stowage bin (the top hatch no longer fitting is a brilliant touch!) My only reservation is whether a service vehicle would be allowed to deteriorate as far as this before somebody found a can of paint. This is what it would look like if it had stood in a marshalling yard of captured weapons for a couple of months after the war. No matter, it's visually stunning!

Scott -- PE chains -- gulp! There goes a brave modeller... On a diff. topic, in your experience, will thoroughly cured acrylic tolerate enamel applied over it? I did this on an Abrams I built about two years ago and there was no problem, but it was only a tiny amount of acrylic and a quick touchup witb enamel over some parts of it. I ask as I'm seriously looking at enamel to give me the control to freehand the Tiger camo (the acrylics only want to spatter, period).

Cheers,

Mike

stick man wrote:

Stick man - the more I look at this, the more I really dig the rust effects you've done here. However, I think that T-bolt nailed it on the head - there's no way an operational vehicle would get to this state. If you're trying to portray it as such, you may get a few arguments over in the armor forum. However, if you're going for the "recently abandoned" look I think you're going to earn some well-deserved kudos.

What methods did you use to get that rusty look? 

espins1.... Nice work on the PE chain it looks realy good

dupes.... I'm going to make it a reacentlee abandond vical and I'm going to put it in a dio that will have some soviot troops waking by and looking at it but I'm not shure if I should have it stuck in the mud or make it look abandond for other reasons like the engine died. To get the rusty look I drybrused Burnt Umber OIL paints over the base couler but I made shure I had some Miniral Spirits on my brush first. I waited for that to be almost dry but made shure some of the paint and spirits where still damp in some places then with a soft wide brush I did a coat of dry mig Light Rust pigments and wereever the damp paint was it changed the couler of the pigments a bit after that I used a stifer brush to stipple mig Standerd Rust and Dark mud pigments and them added chiping over top.

Thunderbolt379 wrote:

Scott -- PE chains -- gulp! There goes a brave modeller... On a diff. topic, in your experience, will thoroughly cured acrylic tolerate enamel applied over it? I did this on an Abrams I built about two years ago and there was no problem, but it was only a tiny amount of acrylic and a quick touchup witb enamel over some parts of it. I ask as I'm seriously looking at enamel to give me the control to freehand the Tiger camo (the acrylics only want to spatter, period). Cheers, Mike

Ya, those were tricky to get together.  I eventually managed to stack all 6 layers and got them all lined up just right while using my fingers as a clamp.  I then just barely touched one end to the tip of my CA glue and let capillary action suck the glue in.  I took my tweezers and gave the end a quick squeeze to get them to hold together.  Then did the other end after a couple of minutes.  I was only glued to the chain for a few moments.... LOL  

I would imagine you'd be ok using the enamels over the acrylics.  You could always test it on some scrap plastic just to be sure.  I don't work with enamels much anymore, just Tamiya Acrylics.  

Hi Scott and all -- I decided to do some experimental spraying today, sticking with acrylics. I just got Chris Mrosko's first book for VLS and he described fineline spraying with the pressure as high as 40psi, over double the prerssure I've ever worked at before, so I thought I might as well have a go on some card. To my amazement it pretty much worked -- clean, no spatter, tight demarkation. So I went on and did the rotbraun for my Tiger (using a third of my gas bottle in the process, I gotta get more economical with practice!).

Here's the old job from a few months ago:

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Heavy swathes of brown, laid down pretty regularly because there was no finesse in the output of the AB. Next, here's today's effort (after she was resprayed to dunkelgelb a couple of weeks ago):

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Perhaps still not as random as it would really have been, but the balance of color now favors the yellow, and the overspray is fine enough to manage distinct stripes, even the 'Y' shapes toward the rear left flank seen on the Bison profile. Here she is from behind:

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Still pretty stark, but the fade coat and washes will pull the colors together.

What do you think, guys? Am I on track this time?

Cheers,

Mike/TB379

Hi Scott -- Phew, a thumbs-up from an expert! I'm glad!

Well, fade-coat next, then I'll leave the acrylics to harden thoroughly before I start wiping at them with a brush loaded with enamel thinner and oils. I'll need to review the project also, it's been sitting in its box lid for months. I think there's precious little to do in terms of other subassemblies, the wheels are sprayed (rotbraun is not too precise, but they'll get dirtied up a mile) and the external tools are an easy prep on the sprue.

I'm thinking back to the StuG III I did for The Hunters -- at what point do the decals go on? After the oil washes but before the drybrushing? That would seem the least damaging to the decals.

Cheers, and thanks,

Mike

Looks darn good to me, T-bolt!

After talking to Crockett quite a while back, I've sprayed just about everything at 25-30 psi - seems to keep the spatter down quite a bit (at least when thinned properly). I know a lot of magazing tutorials talk about dialing the pressure way down to like 5-8 psi, but I haven't added that in my bag of tricks quite yet.

Oh, about the decals - when I do them, anyway, it's right after all of the base + camo colors are done. Hit it with a gloss coat if necessary, decal away, then seal with a flat coat. Weather away!

Decals are surprisingly quite resistant to all of the oil washes/oil-dot filters that we regularly throw at them. 

same here for the decals.  I put mine on right after the base coat and camo colors.  I havn't had any problems with my weathering affecting the decals.  I do seal mine with a dull coat to make sure I don't have any visable outlines from the film. 

Hi Dupes and Moose --

Thanks for the confidence, guys! I was just thinking about spraying pressures. I've been working at low pressure, rarely more than 1bar and less than that for special effects. I was getting spatter and I assumed raisng the pressure would cause the problem to worsen, but I reckon the higher pressure actually aerosols the paint droplets more thoroughly in the AB, creating the fineness. You can really feel the blast trying to move the model in your hand! Pity it uses so much air, my bottle is a $30+ fill so I've got to be more economical with it.

I've not yet experimented with clear coats (something tells me it's not far away!) so I think I'll get some dirt on ahead of decals, then use minimal effects over them for safety (e.g., pigment).

Cheers, looking forward to putting this one in the display case!

Mike

dupes wrote:

Looks darn good to me, T-bolt! After talking to Crockett quite a while back, I've sprayed just about everything at 25-30 psi - seems to keep the spatter down quite a bit (at least when thinned properly). I know a lot of magazing tutorials talk about dialing the pressure way down to like 5-8 psi, but I haven't added that in my bag of tricks quite yet.

I've never had much luck spraying at lower pressures.  25-30 seems to work best for my compressor/airbrush/paint combo.

espins1 wrote:

dupes wrote: Looks darn good to me, T-bolt! After talking to Crockett quite a while back, I've sprayed just about everything at 25-30 psi - seems to keep the spatter down quite a bit (at least when thinned properly). I know a lot of magazing tutorials talk about dialing the pressure way down to like 5-8 psi, but I haven't added that in my bag of tricks quite yet. I've never had much luck spraying at lower pressures.  25-30 seems to work best for my compressor/airbrush/paint combo.

Guys: Try thinning the paint more.  The lower pressure adds another dimension to your airbrush arsenal...mainly gettting in REAL close!!!