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251 Halftracks GB 1 October '08 - 8 June '09

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  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Cheney, WA
Posted by FastasEF on Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:42 AM

Picked up the Squadron 251 book today for $9.00. Found out that they only ever made 1 251/17 command variant ever. Kinda' cool bit of info.

Josh

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:09 AM

Hermes You can deffinatly see the difference between the factory built /8 in your pics and what is clearly a field mod /8 in pordoi's pics.

And even if Dragon come out with a kit of kit, you have the satisfaction of nowing you got there first. I must try my hand at scratchbuilding, i keep putting it off cause i don't think i am good enough. But i won't know till i try. Will look forward to seeing yours and picking up some tips.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Saturday, July 19, 2008 2:48 AM
sorry bout the bad link,i think this will get you where i wanted you to go www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Saturday, July 19, 2008 2:41 AM
ive found a site that converts czech post war ot 810's to 251's. it has about 80 or so color shots from re-enactments. www.sdkfz251.com  

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: LaValle, Wisconsin
Posted by Hermesminiatures on Friday, July 18, 2008 4:49 PM

The factory C/8 model has a single long bench seat on each side that folds up to accomodate the stretcher cases - you'll notice the folded seat behind the stretchers in most photos. The reason you usually only see one side with stretchers is because there's no walking room in the middle if both seats are folded and four stretchers are loaded, and also because each vehicle was equipped with only two stretchers. These photos show how it would look with no modification:

The rail-like structure that supports the legs of the lower stretcher folds in half to stow under the seat. You can see the folding joint in this photo:

There's also a fold-up 1-man seat at the end of each bench so the medics have somewhere to sit even if they do carry four stretchers.

On the field-converted models, a fixed wooden bench on the left and stretcher cases on the right seems to have been the popular configuration, and the factory models with folding seats were probably used the same way because it was what everyone was used to.

You'll see how it all works when I build my model. I've been toying with the idea of casting all the parts since I've successfully made my own resin parts before, but this would be a much more difficult project that any casting I've previously attempted...and of course as soon as I finish making a conversion, Dragon will come out with a superiour plastic kit Wink [;)]

Jonathan

For every modeling technique that works, I have three that don't.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Bournemouth UK
Posted by Luftwoller on Friday, July 18, 2008 4:40 PM

Oh yes, Bish. And strangle it like a goodun. Dupes seems to speak some strange 'Back woods Local lingo'.

I say Dupes old bean, my Lycra wearing buddy. Do they eat the 1st born where your from. Dinner [dinner] Old man, what what!! Big Smile [:D]

...Guy

..'Your an embarrassment to the human genus, makes me ashamed to call myself Homo'.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, July 18, 2008 3:34 PM

After thinking about it, i am probably wrong about haveing stretcher on both sides. Most armoured ambulances tend to have it on one side that way they can accomodate walking wounded, as in the pics. As for any difference between factory built and field conversasions, i guess it just depends on whats avilable. I should imagine the factory ones would have a better finish and would look the same depending on what the requiered specs were at the time. The field mods could look as different as the number of vehicles converted. Just depends on who did it and what they had to hand.

If you look at the pic showing the empty stretcher position, you can see the seat backs. At a guess, i would imagine thats these would not be fitted in a factory built version as they serve no purpose.

It would be nice to have a look at the inside of a deffinate factory built vehicle to compare it.

As an additional aside, the Germans, from what i remeber reading, were good at looking after their wounded. If i remeber right, the survival rate of wounded Germans was second only to American wounded.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Friday, July 18, 2008 3:04 PM
 Bish wrote:
pordoi referance those pics of a/8, i am not sure if it carried stretchers on either side. My guess is is thats it just a /1 converted to carry stretchers.

Bish, so here's where I get confused.  What's the difference?  Aren't all /8s really just converted /1s?  Whether its field converted or factory converted.  Or are the different variants always defined by factory specifications?  Certainly, the interior layout of the stretchers on the right side and a bench seat on the left in this 251 is consistent with the description of the /8 here;

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/251-8.htm

 Bish wrote:
And besides, the Russians probably took no notice of such niceties, ...

...which could be a good reason not to remove the MG.  As an aside, it looks to me like these photos were taken during a training exercise, or possibly as propaganda to show the home front how efficient the troops were at treating and removing their wounded from the battlefield.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, July 18, 2008 2:35 PM

dupes Thats a fair enough point on the variants. It would be nicer if we could get all 23 variants built rather than a few variants in different models.

pordoi referance those pics of a/8, i am not sure if it carried stretchers on either side. My guess is is thats it just a /1 converted to carry stretchers. The cross on the side doesn't stand out very well for a red cross. It look more like a normal black one, which would mean no rules of war has been broken. And beshides, the Russans probably took no notice of suthc niceties, so the Germans would have just converted standard vehicles armed and without markings that stood out a mile.

Luftwoller Can i assume you have never heard a yank strangle the mother tongue.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:15 PM

Dupes,

I came across this reading a post today on the Missing Links Axis discussion group.  Someone directed the readers to the album up for sale on ebay and was interested in identifying a divisional symbol in one of the earlier pics, I think.  I looked through the photos and came across the 251 shots.  Like you say, having an operational MG isn't something that would convince the enemy of benign intent on the battlefield Smile [:)].  But it's been clearly modified to carry stretchers. 

 Don

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:27 PM
 dupes wrote:

to see if we can crank out all 23+ of the "major" variants. If I start allowing A/B/C/D models of each variant, I know that we won't get any of the harder (i.e., modified) ones built. Shoot, I've already got ME doing some conversion work - didn't see that happening.

Ahh, good point - I guess I had not considered that part.  Thumbs Up [tup]

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:58 PM

Pordoi - very cool find! (What key words were you searching for that brought that up?) Only thing that makes me think it isn't an /8 is the machine gun still mounted on the front. I believe that they were removed from the ambulances.

Lufty - wait, you mean it translates to YOUR english (Bloody hookers got me right chuffed! Bob's your uncle!) or MY english (dude, where'd you get those awesome pants)? Laugh [(-D] 

Boyd -  I've considered opening the build up a bit more, but keep coming back to my original goal - to see if we can crank out all 23+ of the "major" variants. If I start allowing A/B/C/D models of each variant, I know that we won't get any of the harder (i.e., modified) ones built. Shoot, I've already got ME doing some conversion work - didn't see that happening. Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg] Like I said earlier, I really didn't think that we'd fill up all of the currently available variants - period! Much less before we even got to kit assignments. Heh. Of course, in every GB, there's always someone who bites off a bit more than they can chew schedule-wise, and ends up bowing out, which would reopen a slot. I hope it doesn't happen (!), but if it does, we can get some of the latecomers in that way as well. Thumbs Up [tup]

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:36 PM

 Bish wrote:
dupes wouldn't it be possible to let some of those just coming to the build who don't feel able to sctratch build to build variants we already have listed but on a different model chassis. For example you have one /9 being built, but it was built on the Ausf C and D model, and the D had two types. We have all 3 of the /17 being built, so how about the others.

 

Hey Dupes,

I noticed as I was getting caught up on things that Bish had brought up the above.  Have you given any thought to his suggestion?  I only ask because I see that, as you said in a recent post, the build seems to be reaching a critical mass, but by building the same variant on different chassis, you'd open it up a bit and give some who want to participate a chance...  Personnally, I think it is a darn fine suggestion - of course, I don't know enough about the 251 family to know how many were built on different chassis (was there any variant built on all four chassis - even if only in 'test' form...  that would be... nifty...Blush [:I])  Uhh, there were four chassis, right... A - D???

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:30 PM
 Luftwoller wrote:

 dupes wrote:
The majority of those pics are from (or, at least the same ones as) the Squadron "In Action" book - can you get those over there? Too bad my Russian is a bit rusty (been a while) - there might be some good info in there. Heh. Wink [;)]

I know there wasnt a 'Stars n Bars' flag but there was a Union Jack. We speak fairly similar languages so im sure youd get away with it being translated into English!! Whistling [:-^]

Scroll too top of page, Big boy.

...Guy

D'oh!!!  So that's what those little flags are for...  Banged Head [banghead]Whistling [:-^]

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Thursday, July 17, 2008 6:26 PM
 Luftwoller wrote:

Hey all, in my eternal strive to be great! I found this Ruski website dedicated (As far as i could fathom) to the SdKfz 251. My Pc Kicked up an error saying the site may be a virus. I checked it out and it wasnt.

http://www.weltkrieg.ru/armoured/SdKfz251/

...Guy

Man that is one COOL site - makes me wish I had worked a little harder at Russian in college...

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Bournemouth UK
Posted by Luftwoller on Thursday, July 17, 2008 4:21 PM

 dupes wrote:
The majority of those pics are from (or, at least the same ones as) the Squadron "In Action" book - can you get those over there? Too bad my Russian is a bit rusty (been a while) - there might be some good info in there. Heh. Wink [;)]

I know there wasnt a 'Stars n Bars' flag but there was a Union Jack. We speak fairly similar languages so im sure youd get away with it being translated into English!! Whistling [:-^]

Scroll too top of page, Big boy.

...Guy

..'Your an embarrassment to the human genus, makes me ashamed to call myself Homo'.
  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:43 PM

Here are a few pics of what looks to be the /8 that came from an album that is up for sale on ebay.  Might help Hermes in his build. 

 

Don

 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:28 AM
The majority of those pics are from (or, at least the same ones as) the Squadron "In Action" book - can you get those over there? Too bad my Russian is a bit rusty (been a while) - there might be some good info in there. Heh. Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Bournemouth UK
Posted by Luftwoller on Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:53 AM

Hey all, in my eternal strive to be great! I found this Ruski website dedicated (As far as i could fathom) to the SdKfz 251. My Pc Kicked up an error saying the site may be a virus. I checked it out and it wasnt.

http://www.weltkrieg.ru/armoured/SdKfz251/

...Guy

..'Your an embarrassment to the human genus, makes me ashamed to call myself Homo'.
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Thursday, July 17, 2008 5:50 AM
Ian - I have some bad news - the GB filled up so fast, I had to issue a "preliminary" batch of assignments (go back one page, it's near the top). We can still get you into the build, but you would need to be willing to do some scratchbuilding on one of the variants that's still available that is not produced in retail kit form. Let me know! Thumbs Up [tup]
  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: The Green "Mountains", Vermont
Posted by IanIsBored2000 on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:59 PM
Still trying to decide on that 251/20, I don't want to commit if I'm not sure I'll get it built, but I'm leaning towards yes.  I promise I'll have an answer before the deadline.
"Scanlon: work your knobby hands on the table in front of you, constructing a make-beleive bomb to blow up a make-beleive world."
  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:51 PM

 some assembly required wrote:
 while looking for any info about the marks left i found a cool site. www.onelist.com/community/sdkfz251. i hope it helps with some more obscure varientsThumbs Up [tup]

 

Sounds interesting but I get this message when trying to access:

Sorry, this group is available to members ONLY.
You are not allowed to access this group

 

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: n/w indiana
Posted by some assembly required on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:39 PM
 while looking for any info about the marks left i found a cool site. www.onelist.com/community/sdkfz251. i hope it helps with some more obscure varientsThumbs Up [tup]

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Posted by russamys on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 3:10 PM
 dupes wrote:

Russ - thanks for the Panzer Tracts link - looks like I'm going to need to get some of those. Do you guys actually order them right from the site? It seems waaaay outdated (i.e., the order form says "be sure to get your order in before the end of April"?), and doesn't appear to have everything in stock??? So was wondering if there's some other retailer you guys have purchased these from.

Whoo, getting fired up! 2 weeks until the assignments are official and every start really chomping at the bit to get building. Mischief [:-,]

I have one Panzer Tracts that I bought off a dealer on Amazon.  The price was a couple bucks cheaper and the shipping was almost identical.  Otherwise, you can Google it and find other dealers.  From what I understand, ordering directly from the publisher is fine too.  His website is low-tech, but he is responsive and has most publications in stock.  Some books may run out now and then - he has a small operation - but I think they reprint the popular ones as necessary.  Again, no personal experience - just what I have read in other places.

Russ

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:37 PM

Hermi Thats what i read on the site i read yesterday. I never realised that about the /3 and 4 being renumbered. I always thought that the /3 was mainly used for forward air controllers right from the start of the war. Once again, shows you how muthc the experts can get it wrong. Over the years i have relyed alot on the Osprey series, but am starting to be a bit more cautious about them.

So that would mean that the new Revell kit sold as a /3 Ausf B should actually be a /6.

dupes No problem on the sMG ariant, just thought i would mention it. Wasn't sure if it would be the same as the Stuka Zu Fuss.

That Panzer tract series looks interesting. I notice the two guys that did it have also written some Osprey books. If only they had done the one on the 251, that could have avoided confusion.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:53 AM

Dang, I was just there the other day and it wasn't on sale. Have to snag another one...Cool [8D]

Totally forgot about my Dragon Bucks too! 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:09 AM

 dupes wrote:
Hey, where'd you find the /6 for $19 bucks?

 No secrets.  Went to the source.

http://www.dragonusaonline.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=DRA6206

On special for $19.99 and I had a few Dragon Bucks left over from a previous purchase which reduced the price further.

 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Coastal Maine
Posted by dupes on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:49 AM

Alrighty Pordoi, I've got you on the list for a /18. Thumbs Up [tup] Nice batch of pics, btw. Hey, where'd you find the /6 for $19 bucks? Don't want you to give away any secret sellers or anything, but I'm certainly interested in snagging another one for turning into my own /18...Whistling [:-^]

Russ - thanks for the Panzer Tracts link - looks like I'm going to need to get some of those. Do you guys actually order them right from the site? It seems waaaay outdated (i.e., the order form says "be sure to get your order in before the end of April"?), and doesn't appear to have everything in stock??? So was wondering if there's some other retailer you guys have purchased these from.

Whoo, getting fired up! 2 weeks until the assignments are official and every start really chomping at the bit to get building. Mischief [:-,]

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:58 AM
 Luftwoller wrote:

.... any good pics of my 251/6. Im particularly interested in the radio arrangement and assosiated wiring...

 

A few from a search done last night...

 

Now go find a Guderian figure. Smile [:)]

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Green Bay, Wisconsin
Posted by russamys on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:40 AM
 dupes wrote:

Anyone - ever seen, own, or have anything to do with the Panzer Tracts series? I hate to admit it, but I'm "none of the above"! Shock [:O]  Just wondering if they're worth it - certainly seems like something I (we) could benefit from for this GB. Thumbs Up [tup] Shoot me any thoughts!

Dupes

Here is a link to a review of Panzer Tracts 15-3 (251 series).  There are some photos of what you will find in the book.  I believe that 15-2 and 15-3 both cover the 251 series:  http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=2975

Russ

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