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#96: Tamiya Pz II C Polish *Complete PICS p5*

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  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Central Texas
Posted by NucMedTech on Monday, June 15, 2009 5:30 AM

WBill,

   Outstanding work so far. Nice info on the Dunklegrau paint. I hope to see good info on weathering techniques as my next build is going to be a PzIVE during the Balkan campaign. I have no idea how to weather the Dunklegrau paint. Looking forward to more.

-StephenCowboy [C):-)]

Most barriers to your successes are man made. And most often you are the man who made them. -Frank Tyger

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Monday, June 15, 2009 7:23 AM
Oh yeah... time zonesBig Smile [:D]  You are a man of your word sir.  And the paint looks terrific

Marc  

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, June 15, 2009 1:49 PM

Julian, thanks for the comments! Definitely recommend giving it a whirl sometime if you're doing an early war tank. Wink [;)]

 Schnobs wrote:
Paint looks great Bill but I have to admit I had never heard of that particular paint scheme. Was it very common?

Edmund,

All German vehicles were ordered to have this scheme from Nov 1938 until July 1940, so it would've been very common. It was the standard scheme for all theaters/operations and is appropriate for Polish as well as French campaign vehicles. The Balkans, early N. Africa, and Barbarossa would've had just the straight panzer gray scheme.

Mike, I did quit sort of early due to needing to take care of some other things before heading off to bed. I did get some additional work done on some of the details but not enough for photos so that will have to wait! Big Smile [:D]

Stephen, thanks for the comments as well! Weathering darker finishes requires a little different approach for sure, I hope it's helpful when I get to that stage.

Marc, yes those pesky timezones are always getting in the way...it could be worse, I could be in Australia and have the International Date Line (no not that line Manny!) to contend with as well. Laugh [(-D]

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: mass,USA
Posted by scratchmod on Monday, June 15, 2009 1:56 PM

She's definitely looking great Bill. The camo scheme is some thing else. I may have to try that scheme out some time. Looking forward to the weathering, Bill style.

Rob

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Monday, June 15, 2009 2:05 PM
 wbill76 wrote:

[Marc, yes those pesky timezones are always getting in the way...it could be worse, I could be in Australia and have the International Date Line (no not that line Manny!) to contend with as well. Laugh [(-D]

A buddy of mine was flying back from Japan on his birthday, he had his birthday 2 days in a row! Gotta love the date line!

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Monday, June 15, 2009 2:35 PM

I like it, Bill, that's a differnt looking paint job, although my ignorance as to this particular tank is limitless.

You are certainly doing it justice, but I cannot count rivets for you on this one.

Bill   

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Monday, June 15, 2009 5:35 PM

 

 

  Looking really sharp there Bill. I had no idea that this type of pattern was so common early on.

   And as far as #100 how about one of these Whistling [:-^]Wink [;)]

 

  

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, June 15, 2009 7:54 PM

Rob, Bill, thanks for the comments! Check out this little summary Bill, it will help you get some background on this guy. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-ii.htm

 panzerguy wrote:
 Looking really sharp there Bill. I had no idea that this type of pattern was so common early on. And as far as #100 how about one of these Whistling [:-^]Wink [;)]

 

Steve, that's more likely for #200! Big Smile [:D]

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:29 AM

wbill76: What is the retail on this kit?  I noticed the ad from Tamiya on the inside cover of the current FSM and liked it!  This years AMPS East theme is based on early war vehicles and I think this one would qualify.  My build schedule is full but for anyone looking to build a theme build, this looks likes a nice choice.  Sorry...Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic] a bit there.

To your build...You may want to hit those brown spots again...IMO.  Unless the photos aren't picking them up well they look a bit subtle.  I'm afraid you'll loose 'em after washes...Burger [BG]  food for thought Bill.

Question:  What was the purpose of that sloped rear deck area?  It sure gives it a unique look but I don't know its purpose.

Gunmetal on the road wheel rubber portions!Confused [%-)]...YEE HAW COWBOYCowboy [C):-)]!  Different, but I like it!  Do the washes cut the shimmer?

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:15 AM

Beautiful uniform camo, this has made me decide to go back and start painting my German Panzer Grendier again: there is a difference between painting camo and dabbing blotches of paint. Back to the drawing board for me Bow [bow]

Julian

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

Isu-152: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/116521.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: Steilacoom, Washington
Posted by Killjoy on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:06 PM
 panzerguy wrote:

 

 

  Looking really sharp there Bill. I had no idea that this type of pattern was so common early on.

   And as far as #100 how about one of these Whistling [:-^]Wink [;)]

 

  

Man, that is some nice looking camo.  Did you post this in an earlier build?  I'd love to see a tutorial on how you paint that!

Chris

A veteran is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life."

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:16 PM

 SMJmodeler wrote:
 What is the retail on this kit?  I noticed the ad from Tamiya on the inside cover of the current FSM and liked it!  This years AMPS East theme is based on early war vehicles and I think this one would qualify.  My build schedule is full but for anyone looking to build a theme build, this looks likes a nice choice.  Sorry...Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic] a bit there.

Retail is $38.95. I got mine from LuckyModel as part of their anniversary sale for $18. Wink [;)]

 SMJmodeler wrote:
To your build...You may want to hit those brown spots again...IMO.  Unless the photos aren't picking them up well they look a bit subtle.  I'm afraid you'll loose 'em after washes...Burger [BG]  food for thought Bill.

Thanks for the suggestion but the color contrast you're seeing is appropriate for the colors used in the scheme depending on your monitor settings of course. The weathering will be tailored to insure they don't disappear completely...but even if it did it wouldn't be inaccurate.

 SMJmodeler wrote:
Question:  What was the purpose of that sloped rear deck area?  It sure gives it a unique look but I don't know its purpose. Gunmetal on the road wheel rubber portions!Confused [%-)]...YEE HAW COWBOYCowboy [C):-)]!  Different, but I like it!  Do the washes cut the shimmer?

The sloped rear deck area is actually the engine compartment. Smile [:)] Have to remember this vehicle isn't large, only 8 tons in total weight, and had a three man crew. The left side was left clear to allow room for the radio operator who sat facing the rear of the vehicle and had an entry/exit hatch there. As for the question about the Gunmetal on the road wheels, I have to stress this is the enamel color and not the Metalizer color. When applied by air brush, it doesn't have a shimmer but does provide a better, slightly grayish, color vs. straight Flat Black. When it gets the pigment weathering, it responds very well in terms of replicating synthetic rubber IMHO.

Appreciate the comments as always! Thumbs Up [tup]

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:53 PM
Neat build, glad I finally looked in on it. I was also curious about the kit itself, looks like a pleasant build as well.

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:05 PM
Thanks Russ!
  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:33 PM
 wbill76 wrote:

Retail is $38.95. I got mine from LuckyModel as part of their anniversary sale for $18. Wink [;)]

$18!...nice..I wish you would've grabbed me one.

 wbill76 wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion but the color contrast you're seeing is appropriate for the colors used in the scheme depending on your monitor settings of course. The weathering will be tailored to insure they don't disappear completely...but even if it did it wouldn't be inaccurate.

Cool!..just watchin' your back buddy... Hey, on that tailored weathering topic, I used local, and I mean REAL LOCAL washes on my 251.  I wanted to give the three-color camo' some pop so I dotted some color oil washes with a small brush and carefully watched and controlled the flow to  stay where I wanted.  I could see you doing the same on the brown on yours.  Or is that already what you had in mind.  Please remember Bill, you're on kit #96, I'm on #18.  Forgive me if this sounds old hat, or should I say ol' cowboy hatCowboy [C):-)], to you.Smile [:)]

 wbill76 wrote:

The sloped rear deck area is actually the engine compartment.

I thought it would be, but why sloped?  Lower profile?..weight distribution?, drive train...???

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:07 PM

Steve,

The sale is still going on...so grab one if you can! Wink [;)]

I will target the dot filters when the time comes for the different colors. The patches are large enough that I will be able to work them separately but still keep the finish unified. Don't forget this one's also going to get some very prominent white markings on the turret, so there will be plenty of varied visual surfaces to work with. Wink [;)]

The compartment is sloped for the simple fact that it has to match up with the superstructure since that's where the fuel tanks are on that side of the hull (and also connect to the final drive and transmission at the front of the hull) and then the rest of the space is shaped to be able to house the engine. Like most engines, it's got a high portion over the block and then the rest of the apparatus like the air intake fans, radiator, etc. have a lower height. Sloping it saves on armor which saves on weight and cost. The vehicle already sat fairly low to the ground so the design was driven more by simple engineering than any specific intent. The armor on this version of the II C wasn't particularly heavy, the thickest was 14.5mm on the front and as thin as 5mm (that's the same thickness of schurzen btw!) on the hull belly.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:40 AM
 wbill76 wrote:

The sale is still going on...so grab one if you can! Wink [;)]

Really!?...I may have to surf over there and check that out.

Does the kit delineate multiple paint scheme options or was this vehicle mostly the standard gray scheme?  I like what you got going and I'm intrigued by the white markings you mentioned...besides, I'm a little tired of Dunkelgelb theses days so a gray scheme with some camo' sounds fun.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:48 AM

 SMJmodeler wrote:
Does the kit delineate multiple paint scheme options or was this vehicle mostly the standard gray scheme?  I like what you got going and I'm intrigued by the white markings you mentioned...besides, I'm a little tired of Dunkelgelb theses days so a gray scheme with some camo' sounds fun.

Tamiya incorrectly provides only straight Panzer Gray in the finishing guide. This kit is specific to the Polish campaign and the markings provided are for 3 vehicles from 1939. The straight Panzer Gray scheme wasn't ordered until July 1940 and the standrd scheme for Poland, Norway (18 Pz IIs were sent as part of the PzAbtzbV 40), and France is the two-tone scheme. There's no documented orders to support plain Panzer Gray prior to July 1940 as the pre-1938 scheme was a three-tone scheme. Since this vehicle has 1939 features in terms of the round nose and not yet up-armored, it would not ever have seen the "standard gray" scheme. The II-Cs did see service later on in the Balkans and in Barbarossa (and possibly also N. Africa but I don't have photos to support that) where they would've had the "standard gray" scheme but would also have the up-armored features that you see in the Tamiya French Campaign kit and the DML II-C kit. HTH!

The white markings are very prominent...large crosses on the turret and of course large turret numbers. The crews often tried to tone these down using mud creating a "yellowed" look because they soon found out that the Polish gunners found them to be excellent aiming points. Wink [;)]

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Thursday, June 18, 2009 10:02 AM

Bill:  HOLY CRAP!!!...I did a quick surf over to lucky model...they have a TON of good stuff on sale!  I've got $300.00 (received and reserved for modeling expenses, thanks FSM) burning a hole in my pocket, I gotta' shut-down the comuter now but I'll be sure to get back over there REAL soon.  Thanks for the heads-up on the sale...heck I may be buying this PzII...it looked like it was availableSmile [:)].

The white markings sound cool... and I could see how they would be a "bulls-eye" for the enemy.   I'll be watching as you finish this bad-boy!  Thanks again BillMake a Toast [#toast]!

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Dublin Rep Of Ireland
Posted by terry35 on Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:09 PM

Hi, Bill the scheme looks great, the idea of highlighting the grey separately has paid off to no end. It seems to lend itself to to separate the two colours and I just know that by the time the weathering takes place all will blend together seamless. Keep up the good workThumbs Up [tup].

By the way, I'm enjoying reading the other thread about your 100th build, very interesting read. Just sprinlke it with your usual magic.

Terry. 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:13 PM

 terry35 wrote:
By the way, I'm enjoying reading the other thread about your 100th build, very interesting read. Just sprinlke it with your usual magic.

Thanks Terry! I just have to use the pixie dust sparingly...a little bit goes a very long way!

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:41 PM

This weekend was kind of a slow model-building weekend...I guess that's appropriate considering how much got done last weekend! I did make progress on the detail front with the first order of business being to paint up all the tools and get them installed. This followed my usual pattern with the metal portions painted with Non-buffing Metalizer Gunmetal and lightly dry brushed with Steel. The wood portions were painted first with my custom "wood" color and then given a light wash of Leather followed by a strategic dusting of Burnt Umber artist pastels. The jack block was also counter dry brushed with the "wood" color to give it more variety. The wire cutters had their Bakelite handles painted with Italian Dark Brown and the rubber end caps painted with enamel Gunmetal. The tools were then installed to both fenders.

Next up was the final hurdle, the tracks! This is what the instruction diagram looks like back in Step 4.

This process turned out to be longer than I thought it would be. All of the links and lengths sections were removed from the sprues and cleaned up. Since the contact surfaces are so small due to the small size of the Pz II links, I went ahead and formed the curved parts first. To do this, I used the sprockets and idlers as, well, formers, and glued the curved sections together and then left them to dry overnight resting on their respective surfaces.

Once those had set up, I attached the sprocket curved portion to the angled length portion and glued that into the long base piece. This was done for both sides so that they would form as a single piece that could still be removed for painting. This was possible due to the fact that the sprocket could remain movable courtesy of the polycap.

The different sections were then base coated with Non-buffing Metalizer Gunmetal, heavily dry brushed with Steel, and then given a wash of Burnt Umber to prepare them for installation.

The final steps involved getting the remaining lengths to join up into a single track run. To accomplish this, I first positioned the top run and then glued the idlers into place but didn't yet glue the top run onto the idlers. A little bit of slack is needed to play around with to get the front and rear portions lined up, so it's best to do this last. Once the top run had set for about 1 hour, I then joined the bottom run up at the idler to the top. At this stage it was no longer desirable that the sprockets and idlers be able to rotate as they kept putting a little bit of "play" into the way the tracks were setting, so I applied some liquid glue to their inner contact surfaces with the mount arms and they are now fixed firmly into position. Then, using some strategic toothpicks to hold it down and prevent floating, the top run was glued down to the return rollers.

Process was repeated for the other side and after several hours (much of it spent waiting for glue to set up), both tracks were finally installed.

Next up will be adding the markings and then onto the weathering stage!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Everett, WA
Posted by Schnobs on Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:53 PM

Hey Bill!

What a beauty!  I really appreciate the detailed track assembly steps due to the fact that the smaller vehicles track assembly processes can be challenging at best.

Love the paint scheme!

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:15 PM
 

  Bill the little guy is looking sharp! I was a little bummed that there was no Saturday night update, glad to see you were able to get some time in. I'm sure those tracks were a patience tester but once again your step by step has more than likely made it a little easier for the next person to tackle one of these.

  Was this pattern the standard or was it common to see the wavy line pattern also?

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Sunday, June 21, 2009 9:16 PM

Hey Bill that update should be worth oh say 10 extra points on the scoreboard.Bow [bow]

Still watchin                                                                                                                 Tony the Mutt

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:09 PM

Thanks Edmund! I'm not a big fan of link-and-length tracks and prefer indys or workables. It took me twice as long to get these on as it would've otherwise but didn't have any other choice under the circumstances so it's a "first" for me...the first Tamiya with link-and-length that I've ever built! Laugh [(-D]

 panzerguy wrote:
  Bill the little guy is looking sharp! I was a little bummed that there was no Saturday night update, glad to see you were able to get some time in. I'm sure those tracks were a patience tester but once again your step by step has more than likely made it a little easier for the next person to tackle one of these.

  Was this pattern the standard or was it common to see the wavy line pattern also?

Steve, my Saturday really got taken over by other things...all I will say is that e-bay can be very addictive and I stayed up way too late last night for my other hobby (coin collecting). The wavy pattern is probably a little more pronounced than it ought to be but isn't outside the realm of possibility. They were steel skeletal links and the Pz II suspension was low to the ground, so I'm sure keeping the tracks properly tensioned would be a regular chore for the crew. Shots of them sitting parked do show similar amounts of sag. Tamiya molded the sag in place so you have to go with it and ride the wave! Wink [;)]

Tony, I'll take the 10 and call it a success! Wink [;)]

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Schroon Lake, NY
Posted by SMJmodeler on Monday, June 22, 2009 8:31 AM
 wbill76 wrote:

Love this photo Bill, excellent work!!!  This tank is like a little "sports car"...it has such nice lines and I like how you're bringing it all together.  Those tracks sounded like a real hassle...they look good though!Thumbs Up [tup]  The white on the turret should really make this baby pop...I can't wait to see it!

Based on your photo above, I could see myself post-shading this much more and weathering it in my style. I know we differ in that department, and of course this is with no-disrespect...in fact just the opposite, you've portrayed such a fine example I'm itchin' to build one myself and you have just about got me convinced to buy this from Lucky Model.  Can you do one more thing for me and give me the kit #?  Is it 35299?

Thanks Bill!

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Monday, June 22, 2009 9:22 AM

Looking better and better Bill. Is this a photo of grey/brown camo or are my eyes decieving me:

cheers,

Julian

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

Isu-152: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/116521.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, June 22, 2009 9:37 AM

 SMJmodeler wrote:
Based on your photo above, I could see myself post-shading this much more and weathering it in my style. I know we differ in that department, and of course this is with no-disrespect...in fact just the opposite, you've portrayed such a fine example I'm itchin' to build one myself and you have just about got me convinced to buy this from Lucky Model.  Can you do one more thing for me and give me the kit #?  Is it 35299?

Thanks Steve! Glad to see this one has inspired you. You've got the right kit #, 35-299. Look forward to seeing what you do with this one! Wink [;)]

Julian, This photo is most likely in Russia since the Pz IVs and IIIs are fitted with the turret bins (and one is a J) and that puts this one the Eastern Front long after the two-tone was dropped. The color patches that appear to be brown are likely just distortions due to the photo film, dust, exposure, etc.

  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: mass,USA
Posted by scratchmod on Monday, June 22, 2009 10:15 AM

Hmmmm.. wonder how that camo scheme would look rusted up!!!

You know I like to hold back and soak up all the up dates, so I'll only say SWEEEEET. Oh ya I agree with you on the L&L tracks, Indy links all the way.

 

Rob

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