SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

The Runner-Up: DML Tiger (P) Complete 12-09-09

31163 views
157 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
The Runner-Up: DML Tiger (P) Complete 12-09-09
Posted by wbill76 on Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:39 PM

While today is Halloween on the calendar, it's really just another Saturday and therefore prime building time at the workbench! This particular kit is one of the older kits in the DML catalog and the parts count shows that...the front of the box lists it as having 237 parts and even with that low count there's almost an entire sprue that's marked as not for use. Of course that's due to the fact that the tracks are one-piece DS tracks instead of individual links, otherwise that would add another ~220 parts right there to the total count. I will be replacing those DS tracks with the MK Elefant set and also using some Lion Roar PE for the details. Zim will be courtesy of the Atak set which also includes a resin replacement turret to address the accuracy problems there with the original DML turret. After I opened up the kit I also discovered that it has a split two-piece barrel, so I've got an early Tiger I barrel on order from JB Models that's not pictured but which will be used.

Diving right in with Step 1, I assembled all of the road wheels and since I will be replacing the DS tracks with the MK set I added the necessary spacers to give the road wheels the correct width. The road wheels are originally designed to fit together using posts as you can see in the pic below and with half the wheels the spacer negates that so I held off joining the wheel halves together until I could use the suspension elements to help align them and avoid potential problems down the road.

Steps 2 and 3 assemble the suspension elements for both sides and I left them semi-workable by not gluing down the bump stop to the cylinder just yet. By doing this, I will have some flexibility with the wheels to insure a level stance when they get installed. This is even more important due to the addition of the MK spacers since the mount pins on the suspension elements won't make contact as originally designed by DML.

Step 4 calls for the installation of the suspension elements to the hull. This step also calls for the installation of the mud scrapers, parts B13 and B14, for the front drive sprockets but if that's done before the sprockets are installed, the sprockets can't be fitted correctly so I left them off for the time being.

Using the suspension arms as a guide, I applied glue only to the MK spacer disks and carefully assembled each wheel individually. After the glued had started to set up, I used small amounts of blue tack putty to mount the wheels on the arms and made minor adjustments as needed to insure the wheels sat level.

The wheels were removed and put off to the side to finish setting up. While I could go ahead and install them permanently at this stage since they are all steel wheels and there's no rubber rims to paint (even though the DML instructions indicate otherwise), it will be easier to paint the bare metal contact surfaces with the wheels off the vehicle. Continuing on with Step 5 and 6, I installed the front and rear sprockets. The front sprockets are designed to be static but the MK set includes an adapter that allows the sprocket to be adjusted. The adapter was added to the interior hull side and since the sprocket parts themselves can't rotate, this will be a key feature when installing the MK tracks and adjusting for tension.

Step 7 is a simple step that installs the horizontal front plate above the glacis. Some minor surgery is also called for in this step to remove features that were seen on the Elefant but not on the Tiger (P). These include the large molded on bolts at the hull side rear and some smaller bolts at the front. This needs to be done on both sides of the hull even though the instructions only indicate to do this on one side.

Next up will start the work of adding the Zimmerit panels and various parts to the hull. I need to check and see if that horizontal plate had zimmerit or not since the box art suggests it should but the Atak set doesn't include a panel for that area. If it's supposed to have zim, I'll have to do that section myself so some research is in order before I proceed tomorrow!

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Saturday, October 31, 2009 8:43 PM
WOOHOO... The one I voted forTongue [:P]  Will be watching with interest

Marc  

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:04 PM

This was my 2nd choice, but I'm still eagerly anticipating the build up! 

Bill, could this kit be built as the original prototype or only as it was used later in the war?  I'm not sure what the differences are other than the zimmerit.

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Ventura (at the beach) in California
Posted by *INDY on Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:13 PM

~Yup Bill.....Just another night. I'm at the bench too.         boo        anyways!

~Great start on this, + I for 1 really appreciate the 1st class production you are making of this build-blog. I'll be checking back here.....with the kits you've selected to improve this Tiger, I don't see how you could go wrong.

Best of fortune with it !

"Well...you gunna pull them pistols, or just whistle Dixie?"

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Dublin Rep Of Ireland
Posted by terry35 on Saturday, October 31, 2009 9:18 PM

Really how cool is that, super choice. I have one in the stash but don't think I would put so much "$'s" into it.  For me I think it would be a chance to see how these DS trracks work.

Nice one Bill,

Looking forward to this build,

Terry.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Saturday, October 31, 2009 11:04 PM

Thanks Marc!

Adam, thanks for the interest! Some of the stuff isn't as involved as it might appear. For example, the LR set isn't very impressive...I thought it had full fenders to replace the kit parts when I first bought it but it turned out to only replace the treadplate pattern (and doesn't really add much even there when it does) so I won't be using very much from the set aside from stuff for the tools and the rear engine screen frames that it provides to dress up the kit details a bit. The set isn't heavy on parts to begin with and was one of the first sets that LR produced. I've had it for ages sitting in wait for this build to get its turn. I am very much looking forward to getting the JB barrel though! 

 bufflehead wrote:
This was my 2nd choice, but I'm still eagerly anticipating the build up! 

Bill, could this kit be built as the original prototype or only as it was used later in the war?  I'm not sure what the differences are other than the zimmerit.

Ernest, this particular kit is configured to represent only 1 vehicle, 003 in service as a befehlspanzer with the sPzJgAbt 653, since this was the only Tiger (P) gun-tank to actually see combat. OOB it has many of the Tiger (P) prototype characteristics but the chief difference is in the front superstructure plate. The kit parts don't have the right configuration to build this as anything other than #003. I'm not sure if there are AM parts out there that would give you the right superstructure plate or not if you're wanting to build one of the test vehicles?

 terry35 wrote:
Really how cool is that, super choice. I have one in the stash but don't think I would put so much "$'s" into it.  For me I think it would be a chance to see how these DS trracks work.

Nice one Bill,

Looking forward to this build

Terry, thanks as always for the interest and support. The DS tracks were one of the first attempts that DML made with them and ironically enough they were replaced with Magic tracks when they reissued this as a Premium kit. The tracks aren't that impressive IMHO, they are soft on detail and not up to the standard of current DS tracks. They were wrapped around the Dragon card so they have pretty pronounced kinks in them to boot. If you've got this one sitting in your stash and want to stay with the DS tracks, you might want to open up the box and release that tension and give them a hot water treatment so they can relax over time.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Sunday, November 1, 2009 6:08 AM

Off to a clean start!!!....With the low part count, but all the AM....it's like a small pan pizza with the works!Shock [:O].....Hummm..I'm getting hungry!

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, November 1, 2009 7:18 AM

Very cool project, Bill!

I built this sucker as a kitbash project from a VK prototype model and an Italeri Tiger about 8 months before it actually came out. Did a bit of scratchbuilding on the front panels and other details as per the vehicle from line drawings -- in my research, it was nearly impossible to find a good, definitive photo of that horizontal panel in question there. I would up zimming it just for continuity's sake.

The tracks are the regular VK kit rubber bands, held down with the ol' straight pin trick; the zimm is Squadron putty done with a razor saw blade.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:00 AM

Mike, it's too early in the morning to be thinking about pizza! Laugh [(-D]

Karl,

I'm inclined to go the same route in terms of zimming the plate. It's just going to look wierd without anything on it. The best pic I could find that showed the area in question isn't very conclusive...it's low res and doesn't show the pattern that well on the hull front nevermind the horizontal plate.

I know that some of the standard Tiger Is received zim on this plate and some didn't...and the fact that the fenders are zimmed and that this vehicle was upgraded at the same time as the Ferdie-to-Elefant conversion and the Elefants are zimmed on that plate at least gives some circumstantial evidence to support zim being there. The Atak set includes strips for the kit-supplied turret if the resin turret isn't used so I may just cut those up and use them to cover that plate area to maintain consistency in the pattern.

Nice work on your conversion btw! Thumbs Up [tup]

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Ventura (at the beach) in California
Posted by *INDY on Sunday, November 1, 2009 10:31 AM

~Yeah Doog ! Beautiful Tiger there. Another nice model...Man! we're getting a little sick of it!!!

Evil [}:)]Sign - Dots [#dots]Sigh [sigh]Big Smile [:D]    OK, Totally kidding ~~{ Keep showing sweet models please }

"To ZIM or not to zim, that is the question.....{Weather} it is nobler  on the sprue or in the disply case.........."

    I say either way, no ones's going to fault you on that one (the 'ole fall back of -do what looks right) Zim it!

 I like that photo dispite its imperfections

Note the Citroen Traction CV11's the germans have car-jacked and are shipping by train to thier little officers elsewhere.....now thats a well organized car-theft ring(among other things)

"Well...you gunna pull them pistols, or just whistle Dixie?"

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Eugene, Oregon
Posted by hughes2682 on Sunday, November 1, 2009 5:25 PM
Bill,
I just came across this one. Not sure how I didn't see this one before now. Don't ever live under a rock!
Does this kit share the same hull and running gear as the Elefant/Ferdnand? I've got the Elefant in the stash and was thinking on building it soon. Just wondering about any pitfalls. Thank you.
Cheers
Dave

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/Aaronw/Groupbuilds/ClassicAviationGB2010bomb.jpg

With enough thrust, pigs fly just fine.

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Sunday, November 1, 2009 5:35 PM
 

   Great choice Bill! I was pushing for this oneTongue [:P].

   I know I'm chiming in a little late on the zimm decision but this same unit also fielded the Berg tiger (P)'s and they had the upper plate in question zimmed on those vehicles.

   By the way Voyager makes a pe set for this kit that includes the full fenders.

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Sunday, November 1, 2009 6:41 PM

Looking at that picture it sure looks like something is up there,zimm or lots of mud.

I don't think I voted for this one either.Sad [:(]

Tony the Mutt

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, November 1, 2009 7:21 PM

 hughes2682 wrote:
Bill,
I just came across this one. Not sure how I didn't see this one before now. Don't ever live under a rock!
Does this kit share the same hull and running gear as the Elefant/Ferdnand? I've got the Elefant in the stash and was thinking on building it soon. Just wondering about any pitfalls. Thank you.
Cheers
Dave

Thanks Dave! No worries about living under a rock, yesterday was the first post on this thread so I don't think it passed you by! Wink [;)] This kit does indeed share the same hull and running gear as the Ferdie/Elefant since those were Tiger (P) hulls rebuilt as tank destroyers. Once you get beyond the lower hull though they of course have very different characteristics.

Steve, thanks for the additional info on the Berge (P)s, it makes sense to me that the plate should be zimmed and I was able to come up with a workable solution, will post on that momentarily. You're right about the Voyager set and I had looked into getting it after I had the Lion Roar set but ultimately decided against it in terms of additional cost vs. what it offered. Unless you want to bang up the fenders or pose the mud flaps, it doesn't really add much value to the equation given how little PE is needed for this particular vehicle.

Tony, no worries if you didn't support it in the voting...it was the runner-up after all! Wink [;)]

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, November 1, 2009 7:51 PM

Continuing on from yesterday's efforts, today was all about the zim! I completed Step 8 which calls for the installation of the angled rear hull extensions as well as the rear hull plate. The rear plate has 10 holes that need to be opened up to allow the installation of the tow pintle and heavy duty rear towing points, easily done with a #68 finger drill. I glued the rear plate to the hull and then added the necessary zim panel from the Atak set using Gator Grip glue and tacking down the edges where needed with CA gel. The Gator Grip glue is an acrylic binder so it provides a good working time to adjust things before it starts to set.

Step 9 deals with the installation of the front hull glacis plate and the tow pintles there as well. The kit plate was replaced in its entirety with the resin part from the Atak set and only minor adjustments were needed on the bottom surface to get it to fit in place. This one has to be glued carefully so I did several test fits before committing to the CA gel. The nose plate also received its zim panel and the hull tow points were also installed.

Step 10 calls for the installation of the superstructure front plate for the driver and hull MG positions. The Atak set offers two options here, one with the extra plate over the MG position and one without, which is a nice touch since it allows some flexibility in terms of modelling #003 earlier or later in its service life. I opted for the extra plate part and drilled out the mount in the ball to take a ModelPoint MG34 tank variant barrel I had as a spare in the AM box. I also skipped ahead a bit to Step 12 and installed the angled plates, parts A14 and A15, since they need to mate up properly with the superstructure plate. Before installing it in place, I used the unused turret zim strips in the Atak set and cut them up to zim the horizontal plate and I will add cutouts later to take the fender support braces once I get to that point in the installation. I haven't decided yet whether to use the kit braces or the Lion Roar and it will make a difference in size.

That set the stage to finally add the side hull zim panels. I removed all of the molded on locator marks that were still present on the sides to avoid interference with the panels laying flat and started at the front. The angled panels were added first followed by the side panels and then the rear panels. The same Gator Grip/CA gel combination was used and there were some gaps that resulted at the panel joins. The gaps were filled with putty and/or small strips of leftover zim from the Atak set as needed to smooth things out. On the superstructure front plate where it joins the angled sides Atak didn't mold zim so this was added using small cut-down strips as well to carry the pattern over to those small sections. 

That's as far as I got today and since I will be travelling to Sydney, Australia on business next Saturday, I won't get back to this one for a couple of weeks unfortunately. When I do get back to it the next steps will be add the upper hull plates and start work on the fenders and tools. 

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: S.W. Missouri
Posted by Pvt Mutt on Sunday, November 1, 2009 8:22 PM

Don't it just make you feel so good when the plan all comes together?Party [party]

You leavin again?Reminds me of Furline Husky singin "Gone" Laugh [(-D]                                                  Tony the Mutt

Shoot Low Boys They're Ridin Ponys

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, November 2, 2009 7:53 AM
Thanks Tony! Yes, I'm travelling again for work. November is shaping up to be the busiest travel month in a long while for me so far, everyone ones to get things done before the holidays I guess! Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Monday, November 2, 2009 2:25 PM

I've been wanting to see you do a BIG tiger, Bill, I can't wait to see how this one turns out.

Have safe travels, we'll be here when you get back.

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Monday, November 2, 2009 3:11 PM

Bill,

Perhaps I can help... if you are coming to Indy area on a business trip, just bring your kit because you are very welcome to use my hobby desk.  That way I can get the best toot... I am looking forward to follow your work as usual!

Andy

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: N.H.
Posted by panzerguy on Monday, November 2, 2009 3:41 PM
 

  Australia, that's pretty cool Bill even if it is for business. Hope you're able to get a little sight seeing in and aren't stuck in a hotel room or meetings the whole time.

  Have a safe trip looking forward to your return and the updates.

     

"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, November 2, 2009 6:15 PM

Bill and Steve thanks for the comments! I don't leave for Sydney until Saturday but appreciate the safe travel wishes all the same! I'm in Phoenix today and tomorrow so I'm travelling more than I'm home these days but only for a short time.

Andy, that sounds like a great offer! Will have to remember that if I'm ever up your way. Thumbs Up [tup]

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, November 2, 2009 6:22 PM

Hey Bill, have a safe trip, as well! Smile [:)]

Better you than me, lol! (I'm sooooooo sick of traveling!) Sigh [sigh]

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Spring Branch, TX
Posted by satch_ip on Monday, November 2, 2009 7:01 PM
Captain [4:-)]Hope you're flying Delta!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 2, 2009 8:32 PM

On the zimm issue...of course everyone knows that horizontal surfaces were "officialy" not to be zimmed, only vertical ones...A lot of folks talk about the plate in question being zimmed on Tigers but I actually don't believe I ever recall seeing a pic of that plate where you could actually make out ridges of zimm on it...some folks have also speculated that zimm paste was applied to that plate but not "patterned" with ridges, giving it sort of a "rough mud" look...

I tend to think the plate was not zimmed at the factory but might have been sometimes zimmed in the field (without ridges)...or it could be that area just tended to gather mud with the crew using it constantly as a step in mounting and dismounting...I'd love to see any pics that clearly show it zimmed with ridges..

Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, November 2, 2009 11:00 PM

Karl, I hear you man...the novelty of travelling wore off a loooong time ago! Propeller [8-]

Satch, not Delta this time around although they too are a customer. Since I'm flying west I have no choice but to go with USAirways at least until SFO and then it's Qantas (they are providing the tickets) to Sydney and back.

Wayne, not a bad idea at all but don't think my corporate travel office will approve it! Laugh [(-D]

 Mansteins revenge wrote:

On the zimm issue...of course everyone knows that horizontal surfaces were "officialy" not to be zimmed, only vertical ones...A lot of folks talk about the plate in question being zimmed on Tigers but I actually don't believe I ever recall seeing a pic of that plate where you could actually make out ridges of zimm on it...some folks have also speculated that zimm paste was applied to that plate but not "patterned" with ridges, giving it sort of a "rough mud" look...

I tend to think the plate was not zimmed at the factory but might have been sometimes zimmed in the field (without ridges)...or it could be that area just tended to gather mud with the crew using it constantly as a step in mounting and dismounting...I'd love to see any pics that clearly show it zimmed with ridges..

Thumbs Up [tup]Thumbs Up [tup]

Very true MR and that's what gave me pause initially and may also be the reason that Atak didn't include a panel for this area. Ultimately the inconclusive nature of the Tiger (P) pic and the box art pushed me to go ahead and zim it. I'm not a Tiger expert and don't have any pics to hand that show clearly ridged zim...but you've got me curious now too. Big Smile [:D] 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 5:38 AM

Bill - I hear you on the travel...when you have almost a 500,000 frequent flyer miles and come vacation all you want to do is stay home....it's OLD

Travel Well. Be safe....look for a good hobby shop if you have time to kill.

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 6:08 AM
 wbill76 wrote:

The best pic I could find that showed the area in question isn't very conclusive...it's low res and doesn't show the pattern that well on the hull front nevermind the horizontal plate.

The Cavalier set has that panel included and I never gave it a second thought when I did mine a while back.  But If I had a set that didn't include it, and had your knowledge of armor, I might have questioned it too.  I am still at the stage that in many cases, if the sheet says, "Glue that thing there..." I do.  But I think is there some evidence in that pic that point to it being zimmed. 

Take a look at the graininess of the photo in different areas.  Look at the standing figure's right hand on the barrel.  The barrel itself is definitely not zimmed while the color under the hand is.  Look at the bevel just in front of the hand too.  The graininess of the photo is very different between the zimmed and smooth parts.  The grain where the guy is standing closely matches that by his hand.    There are enough angles of smooth on the barrel and of other zimmed area to assume it's not just a trick of the light.  While you may not be able to see the detail of the ridges that are lost in the large grains in the film, I think there is defiantly rougher texture there.  Mud?  Maybe. That evenly spread on the panel where he is standing?  Unlikely.

I have some extra generic zim if you need a piece.

Edit:  DOH.... I just looked back at your progress pics and see oyu have already zimmed that section.

Marc  

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 3, 2009 8:50 AM
 wing_nut wrote:
 wbill76 wrote:

The best pic I could find that showed the area in question isn't very conclusive...it's low res and doesn't show the pattern that well on the hull front nevermind the horizontal plate.

The Cavalier set has that panel included and I never gave it a second thought when I did mine a while back.  But If I had a set that didn't include it, and had your knowledge of armor, I might have questioned it too.  I am still at the stage that in many cases, if the sheet says, "Glue that thing there..." I do.  But I think is there some evidence in that pic that point to it being zimmed. 

Take a look at the graininess of the photo in different areas.  Look at the standing figure's right hand on the barrel.  The barrel itself is definitely not zimmed while the color under the hand is.  Look at the bevel just in front of the hand too.  The graininess of the photo is very different between the zimmed and smooth parts.  The grain where the guy is standing closely matches that by his hand.    There are enough angles of smooth on the barrel and of other zimmed area to assume it's not just a trick of the light.  While you may not be able to see the detail of the ridges that are lost in the large grains in the film, I think there is defiantly rougher texture there.  Mud?  Maybe. That evenly spread on the panel where he is standing?  Unlikely.

I have some extra generic zim if you need a piece.

Edit:  DOH.... I just looked back at your progress pics and see oyu have already zimmed that section.

I have some more pics of that tank on the Pzjgr 653 book that I will look at...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 11:52 AM
 INDY wrote:

Note the Citroen Traction CV11's the germans have car-jacked and are shipping by train to thier little officers elsewhere.....now thats a well organized car-theft ring(among other things)

Oh, wow---you are right, and since we are both building that car, too cool...I am painting mine panzer grey and added a Notek light up front on the fender and a convoy light on the rear bumper...vignette to come very soon...any guess as to what colors those are on the railcars?
  • Member since
    February 2009
  • From: mass,USA
Posted by scratchmod on Wednesday, November 4, 2009 8:23 PM

Sorry for not tuning in earlier Bill. Looks like your making good progress on this model, now hurry back and keep this build going with all the pics.

 

Rob

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.