M48 Patton FINISHED! Page 16

disastermaster

All that kit needed was..............

the touch of "doog"

Thanks, Steve! You've got a way with comments!

All that kit needed was..............

the touch of "doog"

Pvt Mutt

If the Twinkies are in the creel where in the heck did you stash the sardines????

An Army moves on it stomach you know.

Tony Lee

BigDaddyBluesman

I looked at those pix. The one pick of the machine gun without a can was probably a 30 cal. The other looked like they had an open can that was hidden because of the 2 dimensional picture.

I have a lot of pix of M48A3 in books and from online sources. I saw 4 types, the standard 50 cal in the cupola, the cupola with NO gun either on top or in it, a 30 cal on top and a 50 cal on top both with and without the 50 in the cupola.

In my time I never saw a 50 without an ammo box of some kind. The thing is the Army had access to a lot more gear then the Marines. So I don't think they used 20mm boxes, I would go with a standard 50 cal either on the weapon or on the turret. 50 cal belts would just fall straight down after the last link coming out of the feed tray, they're heavy.

I looked at those pix. The one pick of the machine gun without a can was probably a 30 cal. The other looked like they had an open can that was hidden because of the 2 dimensional picture.

I have a lot of pix of M48A3 in books and from online sources. I saw 4 types, the standard 50 cal in the cupola, the cupola with NO gun either on top or in it, a 30 cal on top and a 50 cal on top both with and without the 50 in the cupola.

In my time I never saw a 50 without an ammo box of some kind. The thing is the Army had access to a lot more gear then the Marines. So I don't think they used 20mm boxes, I would go with a standard 50 cal either on the weapon or on the turret. 50 cal belts would just fall straight down after the last link coming out of the feed tray, they're heavy.

If the Twinkies are in the creel where in the heck did you stash the sardines????

An Army moves on it stomach you know.

Tony Lee

Thanks, guys--glad to hear I'm on the right track.

Tony, the twinkies ar ein the "creel". A "creelful o' Twinkies"!

Manny--thanks, man--that's a high compliment from a master figure painter like you!

Jon, I think that the issue with the .50 cal rounds is just that you can't really see them very well--they scale up perfectly with what would have been the ammo can and the molded "Bullets" The only option I would have is to use the next-bigger PE rounds, which are definitely too big. They look like 20mm rounds!

Gino--thanks, too!  I was going to use the standard ammo box, but I found some pics on a Vietnam vets' site that actually showed a couple tanks with only the loose "bandoleer" here, and thought "Hmmm, that's different!". I'll straighten out the rounds draping down there as you suggested.

Lee--you know, I am going to put on the MIG "Vietnam dust"< but I have to say that I found a good 50-or-so photos from this website--check it out USMC Vietnam Tanker's Assoc.  --that shows a LOT more of these tanks in "brown/tan" dirt than the red clay so expected of the M48 model. I will still put some on, but I think that a good base of tan will help add to the look of a tank that's "gotten around".Thanks for the comments!

Hey Big Daddy! Thanks for looking in , and welcome to the forums!  Thanks for your kind comments, and for that first-person perspective! And of course, thanks for your service in the 'nam! As far as the ammo box--here's what looked to me like a bandoleer of ammo being used.

I mean, there's an ammo box there on the turret there, but it doesn't even look open. Hmmm. Maybe putting the loose end into the end of the open box and the turret might look better? There are actually several tanks on the site I posted here that are using a long band of rounds instead of the standard Tamiya arrangement of the "attached" ammo box. What do you think? EDIT!!! Oh, wait--now that I look at it, it seems that end IS actually into an ammo box! Cool! That's the way I'll go then! Great that you guys caught that for me!

G---Oops! I guess I'm going to have to swallow that inaccuracy with the stowage and hope that not a lot of guys will pick up on that? That's where being a real Vet helps ya as a modeler! Thanks for the additional info on the flak graffiti, and the kudo's on the figures! I'll have to think of something cool to write on the back of one!

Thanks again for the input and critique, guys. You're helping me to build a better M48!

Like I said for someone who never served on one and what I guess never was in the service it's an amazing job. But the 50 cal looks off a bit on the cupola and there should always be an ammo box, no way to hold onto those round while firing  a 50 cal...LMAO....it kicks like a mule!!!! Someone else would have to hold them. I never saw a 50 cal fired without the ammo box. Many Marine M48A3s that I saw pictures of from Vietnam did not have the top mounted 50 cal, some had 30 cals and some did not have the light, some had round ones. many variants over the many years it served there.

Anyway yeah I would recommend putting an ammo can on it definitely. I never saw name tags on the vests, ever. Many pieces of equipment were used by different soldiers day to day.

What type of sleeping pads did the corp use in Vietnam? We had both inflatable and pads. The pads were horrible and the inflatables were better if they sealed which most did not. Most of the equipment we used was late Vietnam era although some stuff went back to Korea or even earlier, they just pulled stuff out from wherever they could find it.

The M16s in basic were real POS.....they flexed because the lower and upper were lose.

I'm following this one very closely. It looks great. For someone who never served on one I have to commend you.

I learned so much and I hope when I build my M-48A3s they look half as good. Great ideas and techniques!!!

Yeah Vietnam mud was a funny color, I have seen pictures of the red stuff but that never seemed to be on the tracks like the tan stuff. It must have been clay and not that dust that got everywhere. I served a few years after the war.

Now if I can find the Ironside M67A1 flame tank i would be very happy.

I'm going to use the metal barrel and a few other things I think would look cool. It's amazing how a $20 model turns into a $100 one once you get all the extra parts....LOL.

The only thing that I've got is that the dirt is not red/orange but tan. It might be correct that way (some coastal area,perhaps) but it is not really typical for what most would recognize as Vietnam mud. Otherwise, it is another of your masterworks Karl.

Looking good.  The stowage and crew are spot on.  The .50 cal rounds look off to me too.  Mainly becaus ethey are hanging oddly.  They should hang straight down from the side of the gun with no bends or bows, etc.  I personally would put an ammo can on the gun.  Other than that, it is looking awesome.

the doog

As I said, almost there....anyone see anything patently inaccurate or in need of some TLC? Call it out, guys!

I can't speak for accuracy. I've spent no time what so ever on the M48...or any other tank for that matter. The only advice I can give is from my modeler's eye and there isn't much to see here except excellent work! You've certainly given it character and realism!...and one of the Cokes on the back would hit the spot right about now.

If I was going to mention something, the only thing I'd say is that the .50 cal rounds look small to me. Maybe its the picture but they just appear tiny, but that's just me.

Me likey what me sees...

...very nice color on the tank...the stowage and spotlight cover add a lot of visual interest to the monotone scheme...those figs are very good---African American figs are very difficult to paint and "look" right with the darker skin tone but you really nailed it, IMO... 

I've looked everywhere So where did you hide the Twinkies?????

Tony Lee

Hello all,

I've been working on the tedious detail-painting. Still not all the way there yet, but her's some teaser shots. I'm almost ready to post "finished" pics! Just got to apply pigments, but the stowage and figures are all pretty much finished except for a few small details.

Here's a few shots.

I finally got the seachlight regalia painted; yeah I know I have to paint the lights black yet....

I tried to be varied with the stowage....I couldn't resist using that "kreel"-type basket.

And the crew...anything I might add to the uniforms? Insignia, patches, whatnot?

As I said, almost there....anyone see anything patently inaccurate or in need of some TLC? Call it out, guys!

doog

subfixer

OK, doog. It is the 9th. Update us already!!

Lee

Be patient! And thanks for your interest!

OK, doog. It is the 9th. Update us already!!

Lee

Ah, well.. I was still right about the hull, lol...

Hans, while an M60 series tank will always have 3 support rollers, an M48 can have either 3 or 5 depending on variant. If you look at my photo, you can't see the support rollers on my tank because it is a head on shot, but the tank to the right in the photo has 4 of its 5 support rollers visible meaning it can't be an M60 of any flavor.

While I hadn't looked at the photo in question before with any eye towards IDing its variant, but now that I have, one look at the hull will tell you if you ask, "M48 or M60?",  that it's an M48...  The two main identifying feature of ANY M48-series (regardless of turret shape, cuppola, gun, or lack of one) is the curved, cast hull and its glacis plate vs the M60's flat, welded, wedge-shaped one, and if viewed from the side, you can simply count the return rollers, 3 on the M60-series vs 5 on the M48-series... Come to think of it, the defunct and forgotten M247 SGT York DIVAD gun was built on an M48 chasis..

That said, I got one thing for Rob..

I hope you have a great Veterans Day on the 11th; although I have a couple of combat deployments under my belt, I don't quite consider myself a veteran since I haven't gotten out yet.

Consider yourself a Combat Veteran then, Colonel...  That's the "status" (if you have to have one) one that matters when all is said and done...

Memorial Day is for us to take time to remember and honor those Brothers and Sisters of ours that have "Gone West" before us and paid the ultimate price in the defense of this Nation, when trumpets fade, to "wax poetic"... 

Veteran's Day is especially for those among us that have Seen the Elephant, and for all that served as well even if they didn't  "get to the circus" during their time...

bulldurham48

Hi guys, I dont want to seem like a smart ass but the picture you have posted is a early model of the M60 series tank. The easy way to tell is the bore evacuator. On the M48 series tank the bore evacuator is located just behind a flash supressor at the end of the 90mm rifled barrell, while the M60 series tank had the bore evacuator located "midway" up the 105mm gun barrel. Hope that this has been of some help to you. I spent 18 months riding an M48A2/A3 in RVN. Was one hell of a fine fighting platform. I have built 2 Pattons myself and an getting read to do it again. As they come from the box they lack alot of parts and pieces of equipment used in RVN, so when you up grade your M48 you can have a ball. Different Units used different configurations, ie , 50cal mounted about copulae instead of inside. M60's mounted in bussell rack. Tracks blocks around turret, only Marines used sand bag towers.  The model being assemblyed is the first I have seen that really had the correct "texture" on hull and turret.   Great article. I will try to emulate you on my next build. Thank you for shareing.

bulldurham48@aol.com  

I believe you are questioning my photo of my tank. You are incorrect in identifying it as an early M60, when in fact, it is a very late M48 series tank; an M48A5 to be precise. While many old tankers associate the 90mm gun with muzzle brake as an indentifying feature, the M48A5 was an M48A3 brought up to M60A1 standards by adding updated fire control and the 105mm main gun. The M48A5 served with the US Army Korea and US Army National Guard throughout the 1980s. I took that photo during the summer of 1985 at Fort Drum, NY. I have been in service since 1983 and continue to serve in the armor community 27 years later. I have commanded close to a dozen different tanks from the M48A5, M60A3TTS, M1IP, M1A1, M1A1HA and M1A2 so I think I know what I am talking about.

I hope you have a great Veterans Day on the 11th; although I have a couple of combat deployments under my belt, I don't quite consider myself a veteran since I haven't gotten out yet.

Note: My apologies if anyone is insulted by these observations. I will delete this post if anyone takes issues with any of my observations. I am in no way critiquing any model on this forum and am only posting photographic reference material that I personally took in order to make my own models more accurate. It is not my intention to impose my own personal preferences on any other modeler on this forum.

I learned something. 

Hi guys, I dont want to seem like a smart ass but the picture you have posted is a early model of the M60 series tank. The easy way to tell is the bore evacuator. On the M48 series tank the bore evacuator is located just behind a flash supressor at the end of the 90mm rifled barrell, while the M60 series tank had the bore evacuator located "midway" up the 105mm gun barrel.

Just wanted to give you a head's up, Bull.. That's not a "flash suppressor" on the tank's main gun.. The correct term is "muzzle brake"...  It doesn't really supress the flash, so "flash suppressor" is incorrect, however it's function is to direct the blast away from the immediate front of the gun and off to the sides & rear to reduce recoil (as in "applying the brakes")  and muzzle climb. 

 A "flash suppressor" is generally only found on small arms, but is also on large-caliber weapons like  aircraft cannons and machineguns.  Their main function is protect the shooter/pilot's night vision by rapidly cooling the escaping gases and thus reducing the amount of flash....

No big deal, just wanted to help add to your "armor vocabulary" as it were... Folks that aren't around military vehicles much tend to get confused on the nomenclature sometimes.. 

Doog, once or twice a month FSM would send out an email to those who have signed up for free newsletter.  Your WIP was mentioned at the bottom if you can scroll all the way down to the near bottom.  Often FSM would list 3-4 links to forums.  Can I have your autograph now? 

Hope you had a great trip to NC... now get your butt back to your M48... we can't wait any longer! LOL

the doog

Manny--You know, I actually thought about that "Disaster Master" thing myself!

Somehow this slipped offa the front page before I realized it.

I thought I heard my name.............

Hmmmm. Ear's been itching.

But it's really nice to be thought of.

Would'a been honored.

This must be a caddy wompus    ==➤it could'a got into my ear.

Glad to see you could defuse the caddy wompus situation before it went off Karl; sounds like it would have been a wompin mess.

Now you have a wom'pin success instead.

iraqiwildman

You made the newsletter, yeah.

Anyhoo--I'm down in North Carolina now with Jenn, but finally have had the time to sneak in a post!

H23Tanker--thanks for that compliment--it means a lot coming from an actual veteran, and someone who actually rode in one of these tanks. Cool. I'm happy to know that I'm not letting your keen eyes down!

TD and Hinsky--thanks too, guys!

Manny--that;'s not rust, that's a base for the eventual "Vietnam Earth" pigments. I won't actually be putting any rust on this tank, as I generally don't "rust up" modern vehicles. You know, I actually thought about that "Disaster Master" thing myself!

Anthony and Josiah, thanks for the thumbs-up!

Marc, you know me and that mud and dirt thing....like Pigpen said ":As the moth is drawn to the flame, so am I to the mud puddle" ha ha. Thanks, bud!

Buildurham--thanks for that endorsement of the texturing of my model here--again, it is so cool to hear from an actual tank veteran from Vietnam. I appreciate you and your fellow war-buddies looking in and giving me a hard look. My goal here is to "be the best I can be", and I know I can count on the critiques of all you military guys to keep me on track!

I'll be back to New York on Sunday the 7th, so I should have a new update some time around Tuesday? Until then, Jenn's got me and my time pretty much locked up! ...

Hi guys, I dont want to seem like a smart ass but the picture you have posted is a early model of the M60 series tank. The easy way to tell is the bore evacuator. On the M48 series tank the bore evacuator is located just behind a flash supressor at the end of the 90mm rifled barrell, while the M60 series tank had the bore evacuator located "midway" up the 105mm gun barrel. Hope that this has been of some help to you. I spent 18 months riding an M48A2/A3 in RVN. Was one hell of a fine fighting platform. I have built 2 Pattons myself and an getting read to do it again. As they come from the box they lack alot of parts and pieces of equipment used in RVN, so when you up grade your M48 you can have a ball. Different Units used different configurations, ie , 50cal mounted about copulae instead of inside. M60's mounted in bussell rack. Tracks blocks around turret, only Marines used sand bag towers.  The model being assemblyed is the first I have seen that really had the correct "texture" on hull and turret.   Great article. I will try to emulate you on my next build. Thank you for shareing.

bulldurham48@aol.com  

Someone's been playin' in the mud again!  And looks like they had  a hell of a time too.  Nice

looks muy bueno ;)