Ben,

On the subject of gloss coats, Karl is an advocate against them and his results speak for themselves, no question about it. Having said that, the actual technique that he's outlined previously in other threads about how he gets decals to behave and remain protected without suffering ill effects is not something that is easily picked up and takes some practice to get it right. Karl's technique also assumes that you are working 100% with acrylics in terms of basecoat and not enamels.

Regarding the history of the different publications and the position that most modelers take about using gloss coats often stems from the fact that, in the past, the vast majority of modelers used enamels and not acrylics for their paint work and so protecting the base paint was absolutely essential when applying thinner or oil-based weathering techniques as they would most certainly attack an uprotected finish, even one that had fully cured over several days or even weeks. Is that same level of protection still needed today? That depends...there are many modelers who work 100% in acrylics who still employ gloss coats and swear by them for a variety of reasons, but I can't speak to the reasons for/against that since I'm an enamels-guy.

What I can say is that, for me, the gloss coat is essential. I started out using Future for that just to prevent decal silvering (which it does without fail) as that was something that had always been the bane of my existence. Later as I got more into using washes and especially dot filters, the protective nature of the barrier coat become paramount and the decal benefit was a nice additive gain. There is absolutely no way I could achieve the types of finishes I see now on my builds without it.

The wonderful thing about our hobby is that there are many ways to achieve the same end and there are multiple "schools" of thought about how or what you should do to get to that end. Karl is convinced that gloss coats are not essential and has evolved a technique that doesn't involve or require them and he's happy with that method. It doesn't mean that's a one-size-fits-all approach even though Karl can and does proselytize for his preferred approach every chance he gets (not that there's anything wrong with that!)  Find your own path, that's also part of the joy of the hobby in terms of discovering what does, and doesn't, work for you!

And now, after all that, congrats on getting your big beast done. It looks like you've had a chance to explore more techniques and approaches and have broken some new ground in terms of working with various colors and effects and the results can be seen in the finish you've got here.

Ben,

As usual, Bill has explained things in a completely thorough manner and left little out, so that all I can do is echo his words. And he's 100% correct in that my "crusade" if you will against gloss coats is because I "ass-ume" (with all its unintended resultant side effects ...) that you are using acrylics--which, correct me if I'm wrong, but you DID indeed use acrylics in this build, yes?

There are guys who will still tell you to use gloss or "protectant" coats over acrylics, but I like to think that in my 20+ years of modeling that I have proven that it doesn't specifically NEED --and I emphasize "need"--to be done. I have put decals on over flat paints with zero bubblage; I have done washes and some of the most extreme weathering over flat acrylics, and cannot ever remember having paint lift or degrade.

But I HAVE seen models yellow from clear lacquer coats--and have also used clear coats in the past where I've seen tiny details literally absorbed into the coat, and that is my reason for such vigorous denunciation of what I feel is an old modeling canard. EXCEPT, of course, if you use enamels, like Bill. IN that case, you definitely have to "protect" your finish, as enamels take weeks to properly "gas out:. That's one of the reasons that they've somewhat fallen out of favor with car guys--you can now finish a car model in less than 6 weeks from painting by using fast-curing lacquer coats. In nay case, I would suggest to you that in the future when you gloss a model, do your decals and THEN "flat" it right afterward so that you can have a flat finish to weather over. You'll be able to get a clearer vision of what your weathering results are actually doing to the finish without all the shine, because light plays differently off of shin finishes than it does on the flat ones, and that affects your perception of what's going on. When I tried weathering over a gloss finish way in the past, I didn't like the "surprise" that I got when I flat-coated it, because the increased refraction of light coming off the finish sometimes wouldn't give me an accurate reading beforehand and I'd really see that in the finish when it got its final flatcoat.. In fact, I don't know how Bill gets his consistently-great results every time, but he does! Respect for Bill!.

I apologize if I was harsh, Ben. I'm running on jetlag here, having just arrived in Spain on yet another business trip and may not have considered my tone, I hope you know that I wouldn't let you down, buddy! I've been watching your builds steadily improve and you're coming a long way, and what's more, you've got the guts to try new things and to risk making mistakes---and that's a huge plus for your potential! I just want you to succeed so bad, and then get frustrated when I hear that you come up against another wall!

This turned out great in the end. A twisty, tortured road to get it here, but again--you're learning. It's great to hear that you'll be trying things differently;y on the new upcoming StuG. I'll be watching that one as much as I'm able to.

Thanks guys,

kind words G, Bill & Karl - thank you

She's not quite there yet but I'm not into trying to rush anymore so I've decided to leave her until next week.

Apart from the stowage (tarps, spare links, bundles of wood and a couple of fuel drums etc) I need to take a pin to them PE grills and clear some holes out that have filled with paint and have a general tidy up including trying to remove that mark behind the pick axe handle. Some very light pigments around corners and in crevices and she's done.

Finally some decent photography would help as the light I normally use seemed to make that fighting compartment roof look very odd with all the patchy white areas which can't be seen when holding the build in your hand? I'm assuming it's patchy areas of the Vallejo Acrylic Matt Varnish which looks like watery milk when sprayed? I don't know if it's worth worrying about seeing as it can't be seen under normal conditions.

One more good session and she's in the bag. Then I'm building a StuG for the StuG GB and then onto my Dragon IC Hybrid Firefly and then eventually my Dragon Marder III Ausf M Befehslager.

Thanks again for the kind words guys - I'm just a bit annoyed about them photos

ATVB

Ben

Karl,

My secret isn't all that secret as I've stated it many times in my blog threads...after the 2nd Future coat is applied to protect the decals, my first step in the weathering process is always the application of an overall wash using a flat enamel (usually Raw Umber) and regular enamel thinner (which dries very quickly). This, combined with the slight tooth that the Future has itself since it's not a true gloss, allows for the dot filtering process to work accordingly. Probably not all that different from applying a clear flat coat except that the flat coat would likely have more "tooth" to it. HTH solves some of the mystery!

Bill,

I'm sure that you post will be of value to Ben and others reading through this blog; but let me assure you that I was speaking figuratively and not questioning your methods. Your results speak for themselves and I'm a great admirer of your work, which always seems to improve, and never falls below standard.

The "mystery" which I mentioned is more my frustration at not being able to achieve good results with the whole "gloss" method in my younger-turd days, and in a way, that's a good thing, as it led me to my own methods and results. But my comments come more from my own annoyance at my own previous failures than from any critique of your own consistently competent results, and I don't mind saying that publicly!

Ben,

I haven't posted on this thread for a while but, that isn't to say that I haven't been enjoying this build.  You are doing some solid work sir.  This one is coming along nicely.  You are at the point where for myself, I've got to slow down and not rush it across the finish line.  I am looking forward to more installments.

Cheers

Dave

hughes2682

Ben,

I haven't posted on this thread for a while but, that isn't to say that I haven't been enjoying this build.  You are doing some solid work sir.  This one is coming along nicely.  You are at the point where for myself, I've got to slow down and not rush it across the finish line.  I am looking forward to more installments.

Cheers

Dave

Thanks Dave,

I'm quite confident in saying that every one of my builds are gradually getting better and better. I'm trying new techniques, I'm not rushing - infact I'm making a concerted effort to really slow down! It's definately helped. I'm dry fitting all my parts before I open the cement and I'm getting advice and help from some of the best guys in the game (Bill Plunk & Karl to name but two). I'm doing good!

This weekend I've got my stowage to add and some final photos to take then I'm calling the JSU done! What a superb kit, I can't recommend it enough!

Next up from my stash in this order:

• Tamiya StuG III Ausf B (for the StuG GB that Dale is running)
• Dragon Sherman Hybrid IC Firefly
• Dragon Marder III Ausf M Befehslager (a true Dragon 'Mega Kit')

I think these three should take up the bulk of 2011!

ATVB

Ben  

Hey guys,

Well, I'm VERY happy to be able to call the JSU complete!

The build itself was pretty much complete last weekend but I just had the stowage to add and some more pigment work to do.

I made a couple of tarps, on mucky one for the front LHS fender with a rusty old 3 link piece of track used to sit on top of it. The other was placed behind the fighting compartment with two fuel drums placed on top of that along with a couple of track links and a little crate. This was only my second ever attempt at any stowage like this I'm really pleased with how it turned out.

Some pigment was put in all of the little nooks and crannies where you'd expect dust and muck to build up.

Finally to make her look like the original JSU 1151 in the photos I added a ditching beam to the two unused fuel drum brackets on the LHS and used some medium chain to look like it had been lashed down. For the beam I used a section of normal garden cane and immersed it in a sandwich bag with a blob of Raw Umber oil and a dribble of thinner and let it sit for an hour to absorb the colour which it did perfectly.

The 'real' JSU 1151!

My 1151:

Thanks for looking guys,

I've really enjoyed building this kit - it's a monster that opens up so many opportunities for weathering and stowage etc. I can't recommend this kit enough. I'd like to have tried FRiuls on it but, tbh, it doesn't really need them. The kit tracks are great and the 'sag jig' really is a great idea! Well done Tamiya.

I promised myself a non-German build and here she is, my first of 2011! I've entered Dale's StuG GB which I'll be starting next week so back to German for a month or two then onto the Dragon Firefly!

All the best guys,

Many thanks,

Ben

Well, all in all, Ben, you've stepped up a notch or two in your finished results. That's got to be the best finish you've had yet. You managed to pull out a real winner in the end.

Well done! A great looking model!

the doog

Well, all in all, Ben, you've stepped up a notch or two in your finished results. That's got to be the best finish you've had yet. You managed to pull out a real winner in the end.

Well done! A great looking model!

Hey thanks Karl - a commendation like that from the Doog is something not to be taken lightly

She's definately spot on weathering wise - dusty, mucky and a little rusty! I'm one happy modeller tonight!

If I could change something I'd probably not have rusted up the front track links on the tarp so much and would have left the tarp a different colour but it's looking ok - even so, I'll know for next time!

I have noticed one thing - I didn't fit the mud scrapers by the drive sprockets! I realised when I was going through through the sprues getting items for the spares tub! They'll have to go on but that's a 5 minute job so no worries!

Thanks buddy - I really appreciate the help and guidance you've given me

ATVB

Ben

Nice job Ben. I like the weathering on this beast, looks like it's had a hard drive to Berlin!

Nate

Definitely your best work to date Ben, well done!

Ben you have out done yourself on this one, simply your best effort so far. Well done.

Regards,

Terry.

Very nice, now thats a nice war weary soviet tank,

Congrats Ben on another great job !!

I have to agree with the guys here... this is definitely the best work so far!  It was even fun watching your WIP too.  I promise you are going to enjoy Tamiya StuG III B.  I built it last summer and it is still one of my favorites to build.  You can check my WIP in Turretless GB...

Looking forward to your next WIP...

Thanks guys,

I really appreciate the generous comments! Much appreciated

It's all starting to come together a bit now and having started slowing down, starting doing serious research on my particular build before even reaching for the sprue cutters, generally thinking things through and getting advice from you guys my work has improved in leaps and bounds recently.

The StuG III B does look like a VERY good kit, especially for Tamiya which is saying something. I'll look up your WIP Andy. Thanks matey

One question - rolling out Milliput into thin sheets for Tarp? How on earth is it done without having it sticking and tearing? Obviously I waited until it was nearly dry and the tackiness was gone but even with Talcum Powder applied it still stuck and would tear when being rolled. I also tried water but again, no luck. I managed to get a sheet and cut a couple of sections but they were overscale a tad but I went with them and they looked ok but how is it done? I want to try making a Swastika sheet for the roof of a future build but the putty would have to be a fraction of the thickness and I like to try and make stuff like this before buying it! I've seen it done and it looks great! 

Thanks again for all your help and guidance on this build guys.

ATVB

Ben

Looks like you hit a homerun on this one Ben! I love it!

Jester75

Looks like you hit a homerun on this one Ben! I love it!

Thanks Jester!

I'm going to get a really big head with all of these nice comments! Seriously, they mean a lot to me

I've done a little bit more to her this afternoon - nothing drastic but I've just added a bit more stowage and done a bit more light pigment work. I've added another fuel drum (A comandeered German fuel drum) that's had some hairspray weathering done to it along with a bundle of firewood which I made yesterday from rounded off matchsticks and tied top and bottom with cotton and given a dip in some MIG Dark Wash. I wasn't going to use it as I had used the log but it looked quite good so I found another spot for it and it worked well. Finally I used one of them Tamiya weathering kits that have three 'blocks' of pigments. I used some 'Oil Stain' pigment to add some depth to the sheet on the front fender with the rough old rusty track links on it as I thought the sheet looked a little too rusty and the track links were 'disappearing' into the sheet and weren't contrasting like I wanted them to - I think it's all worked well. Some more light pigment and I'm not touching her anymore as she's perfection in my eyes and as my favourite saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"!

Here she is in all her completed glory - note the added bundle of wood, the German fuel Drum and the oil staining on the sheet on the front fender:

Righto, so I'm starting the StuG GB next weekend. I can't see the StuG build taking more than 6 weekends so then I'm onto my last two kit's in the stash (I don't see the point in having a massive stash unless a kit is offered to me for a silly price or I come across something that is as rare as rocking horse poop and can't be turned down!

After the SuG I'll be left with two Dragon Smart kits - both being quite expensive and very nice:

• Sherman IC Hybrid Firefly (what a stunner)
• Marder Ausf M Befehslager Command Vehicle with full comms installation (a true Dragon Mega Kit that could take a few months worth of weekends)

So, the JSU is finally completed - definately this time! I'm looking forward to a nice relaxing Tamiya StuG build then it's onto the Dragon kits!

Thanks again guys - you've all been a great help on this build and I hope I can at least maintain this level of build quality! Onwards and upwards (hopefully)!

All the best and have a great week everyone!

Ben  

OK.

Looks like you've come a long way very quickly and everything has come out well.

LAST TWO KITS IN THE STASH!!!!

That's terrible.

Nice job on that Russkie baddie.

TD4438

LAST TWO KITS IN THE STASH!!!!

That's terrible.

Nice job on that Russkie baddie.

Thanks guys

Yep, the StuG, the Firefly and the Marder. I honestly don't have the room for stacks of kits and find it better to buy kits as I go. I take up a huge amount of space with paints, pigments, air brush and compressor and all the other associated modelling stuff. 

The Marder is a monster of a kit with a daft part count and should take a fair while to complete - I'm estimating 2-4 months worth of weekend sessions. The Firefly is another big 'un and again, should take a couple of months worth of weekends. The StuG probably 6 weekends - it depends how far I decide to go with it (figures, base, stowage etc).

I already know the next kit I'm buying - the fairly new Dragon M7 Priest. Now that's a nice looking kit. By my calculations my current kits should take me up to the end of October and seeing as it's my Birthday in November - result! When I get a pay rise and a place of my own I'll have all the kits that I want!

ATVB

Ben

Great job She really looks the part and is weather beautifully.  The gear also really stands out and fits the part.  Well done

Terrific job Ben, weathering looks great and I love all the storage.