That's just what I was going to say Mike, Nice detail work Bill

Tony lee

redleg12

Ahhh....sneaking in a late Sun update!!! Love the seat....nice work on the details

Rounds Complete!!

Thanks guys. When I showed the photo to my wife she said it looked like they were having a garage sale!

@ Tony Lee ... do you need a second message for Bison II to restore your archives ?

@wbill76 ... never mind this storage shown here by Tony was the hand-made drawing of a sergeant-rank who served in field and with this AFV in WW II ! So, who might know it better ? However, we would never be able to ask him again, he's dead since years ago. Too much knowlegde is gone.

Melchior,

Very true...every day that passes results in original sources like that becoming scarcer. Memories fade with time and oral history is lost if not passed down to the next generation. Not knowing the provenance of the diagram posted of course has an influence on evaluating its validity and my related comments. This is a problem that the model manufacturers face all the time in dealing with subjects where there aren't any surviving vehicles, information is sketchy, and no official plans or diagrams are available for study. Had the veteran been alive and available to speak to DML designers and reseachers I'm sure the outcome would have been different. It makes me wonder if that type of source might not have been what influenced the Achtung Panzer authors in their choice of suggested ammo load-out perhaps? Hard to say for sure.

Hi,

no chance for DML, because this old man had sent those informations at September 4th, 1988 ! 

I also cannot imagine on which way the publishers of Achtung PanzerNo. 7 got those informations. may be via Mr. Frank, formerly President of airmodel / Frank-Modellbau in early 90th of last century.

However I' ve sent those Informations (translated !) to DML also. If there will be a modification ... don't know.

We also tried here in Germany to modify a DML kit in that manner, unfortunately no chance. It seems to be a secret more of WWII.

Additionally Mr. Duske ( publisher of "Nuts and Bolts" ) got my informations. However he also hadn't got or found any further details and Informations concerning that SPG.

I suppose that there are examination reports of the British who had captured some vehicles in Egypt (El Alamein) stored in any British archives. Who will find them and when ? That's the only  posibility to find  the solution... which we all need to have.

All self-propelled artillery carried only a small amount of ammo...that why you see some chassis (particularly with the Germans) converted into just ammo carriers...Oftentimes I feel we forget things like this when we start woondering things like, "Where'd they keep all the shells?"  Truth is, they didn't carry that many ion this vehicle or any other SPG's...maybe enough "ready rounds" for a few minutes worth of firing...

Artillery shells and a/c bombs were the 2nd most cumbersome expendable item that had to be transported on the Eastern front, after petrol (the 3rd was my phonograph record and wine collection) ...same with operations in the Med and N Africa...keep in mind that most artillery fired indirectly and were located further back in the rear where the guns were supplied with ammo carried in trucks, railcars or sometimes other armored vehicles...

Very true Manny. No way any of the SPGs could carry sufficient ammo without a "tail" of logistics support to go with them. I think the intriguing thing about the Bison II is that all the written sources on it say something to the effect that 7-10 rounds were carried on the vehicle itself...but it's unclear as to exactly where. Even the space challenged Bison 1 managed to find space on the fenders to carry 3 ready rounds...not exactly a rolling arsenal but better than nothing!  It's not hard to see why the Bison II design didn't get carried forward for a lot of reasons.  

wbill76

Very true Manny. No way any of the SPGs could carry sufficient ammo without a "tail" of logistics support to go with them. I think the intriguing thing about the Bison II is that all the written sources on it say something to the effect that 7-10 rounds were carried on the vehicle itself...but it's unclear as to exactly where. Even the space challenged Bison 1 managed to find space on the fenders to carry 3 ready rounds...not exactly a rolling arsenal but better than nothing!  It's not hard to see why the Bison II design didn't get carried forward for a lot of reasons.  

Bill and Manny - Yes, the SP artillery would normally have an ammo vehicle with it or at a minimum, tow a trailer with some ammunition (similar to the M8 or M7) For a big gun, very few rounds are carried on the gun chassis. Also the crew would be large enough that they would be split between the weapon and the ammo carrier.

Artillery is firepower and that means ammunition. A given example...the basic ammunition combat load for a 105mm firing battery (6 guns) we would carry close to 2,000 rounds. This is based on a expected firing rate of 250 rounds per tube per day in combat. The largest part of artillery is logistics. To carry that much ammunition we had each howitzer section 2 1/2 ton truck loaded as much as possible, just leaving space for the crew. Plus we had an ammunition section with 3 long bed 5 ton trucks and 2 ammunition trailers all loaded to the top of the bows.

Logistics.....and I don't mean UPS!!

Sooooo....in your case there had to be some support vehicles

Rounds Complete!!

redleg12

...we would carry close to 2,000 rounds. This is based on a expected firing rate of 250 rounds per tube per day in combat.

ok, as you asked for ...

10 rounds at the Bison SPG (partly covered and laying on the floor under the gun / limber) 7 in wooden made storage area as shown on the hand-crafted photo shown by Tony lee

2 x 25 rounds / each in 1ton half-tracked vehicles / for each Bison - SPG

50 rounds on trucks for each platoon

During the battle of El Alamein the whole ammunition was fired, partly at shortest range, including the corp's reserve (rest 10 rounds !) ... even when the first 2 British tanks had broken through the lines and were at least "stopped" by 88mm Flak hits.

Made some progress in terms of moving in a lot of the furniture that I'd worked on previously. I used 0.5mm solder to wire up the transformer, battery, and radio to each other. The wire was painted with MM enamel Gunmetal and secured in place with CA gel in the holes I'd pre-drilled previously.

I also installed the gunner's and radio operator's seats. The gunner's seat is a little tough to get into position as there's not a lot of room to work with. This is a case where angled tweezers are your friend for sure. The radio operator's seat has to be positioned just so to avoid a problem with the rear compartment section, so it's a good idea to dry fit the rear compartment and then glue the seat in position.

The other side of the compartment also received the loader's seat and the MP40 ammo pouches. I also applied a pin wash of Burnt Umber to the raised detail (and the other compartment sections as well) and then lightly dry brushed the RAL 8000 base coat to highlight and blend back in to the finish a bit.

The other compartment sections received detail attention as well. The charge casing rack was detailed with MM non-buffing Metalizer Brass and the commander's seat installed. The kit-supplied PE holders for the gas mask containers were used to mount the containers to the compartment side wall and the fire extinguisher detailed. Last but not least, I added the antenna wire to the mast elevation mechanism and will connect it up to the radio when the compartment is fully assembled.

Next up is detailing the gun and then the compartment will get assembled.

OK....now I am totally confused....Bill is posting on Wed....sneaking in Sun.....this must be either the new stealth Bill or with this interior, Bill is changing jobs to a furniture salesman 

Love all the little details.....my kind of build

Rounds Complete!!

It's all Tony's fault Mike! The cramped interior is packed to the gills...I did a test fit with all the seats and stuff installed and the crew would've barely had room to stand in to operate the gun. Very tight quarters all around for sure.

Biil, that's looking good--looks like you're ready to button it up and drive it into the home stretch?

That's right blame it on the old guy

From what i've read they would have been better off to pull the gun around with a pair of camels.

Tony lee

Oh I almost forgot: The interior is cherry Bill

Karl, getting closer but still some substantial work to do on this one on the exterior assembly, tools, tracks, etc.

Tony, just for you my friend...a rare back-to-back update on the build. I think you're right about the camel scenario!

More progress to report. I completed the detailing on the sIG33 using MM non-buffing Metalizer Gunmetal and non-buffing Metalizer Steel to detail the breech. I opted for the elevated version of the artillery sight which DML provides as clear parts, making it trickier to paint and detail them. I also used the Metalizer Steel for the recoil rails and dry brushed Burnt Umber over them to create a bare metal look. Last but not least I added the kit-supplied PE range/calculation boards.

I decided to treat the gun like a mini-kit for weathering and applied a Future coat by airbrush and let that dry and cure overnight. I applied an overall thinned wash of Raw Umber to the gun and followed that with a pin wash of Burnt Umber to bring out all the different bolt and raised detail. Excess wash was cleaned up using clean thinner and then the gun dull coated with an application of Testors MM Lusterless Flat in the spray can. 

With the gun details finished, it was time to install it into position. The rear compartment portion has a tighter fit now with the commander's seat fitted so I had to kind of fit the two of them into place simultaneously for the seat to clear the clamps holding the gun equilibrator housings. I used liquid glue around the perimeter of the rear compartment and finger pressure to secure it in place. I didn't glue down the front of the gun splinter shields just yet.

As you can see from the pic below, the fighting compartment is a very tight/cramped space and all of the DML-supplied components have to be installed carefully to play nice with each other in the final result.

That left the side panels as the remaining element for the fighting compartment assembly. I added the left side first since it was supported by the angled braces and then the right side followed. By not gluing down the splinter shields until after the side compartments were fitted, I had some wiggle room to be able to slide the panels into position and make sure they were lined up correctly and at the right angle with the fenders. Then the front splinter shields were secured in place to complete the day's activities.

Hey Bill, up to your usual high standards eh. Been waiting to see the painting stage of this build. Keep it coming, looks great so far.

All that office needs is a good lookin secretary and a Remington typewriter Tex.

Real fine work

Tony lee

Thanks Rob! The painting stages on this one are in fits and starts because of the open interior and the wierd front hull arrangements. I may have to do some additional painting on the rear hull and intakes as well before I fit the large box and intake covers but not 100% sure of that just yet.

Tony, I'm happy to be done with the furniture moving on this one for sure...SPGs are fund to work on as you know because of the interior details that are visible but the laws of physics certainly place some limitations on the assembly!

Work has been steady since the last update focusing on the exterior details. I went back through the instructions paying particular attention to Steps 7, 11, and 14 and adding things that I'd skipped over before. The rear deck received the ammo and storage boxes and the intake doors were added in the open position. I also modified the antenna mount using only the base from the kit supplied antenna and drilled it out with a #74 finger drill to take an RB Models brass antenna later on. Instead of the kit-supplied 3-part tool clamp for the wire cutters, I used a Grifon 2-part clamp instead.

Trickiest part of the exterior was the jerry can racks. There aren't any locater guides provided so these were placed using the instruction diagrams as a guide and working from the rear of the hull forward. I used Gator Grip glue instead of CA to allow some work time and flexibility in placing them. After the racks were in place, I added the belt straps with CA gel.

The rear hull also received some details in the form of the mud guards and lights from Step 8 and the lifting hooks from Step 10 that I'd overlooked previously.

I also assembled the jerry cans from Step 12 and have to warn other builders that DML has done their usual trick with the jerry can parts in terms of the PE design not matching the actual kit parts that are provided. The PE parts and instruction diagram show the can halves with three mount pins that the PE part is supposed to fit neatly over as it also has three holes provided. The reality is that the halves only have two pins and neither of them will line up with the PE part...so to assemble the cans, you have to remove the bottom pin completely and eyeball the placement of the PE insert. Normally this is the result of DML just reusing available parts from a previous kit and throwing them in but in this case the PE fret was designed specifically for the Bison II so why they didn't design the PE parts to fit correctly is a bit of a mystery.

I also cleaned up the fighting compartment tarp frame supports as those will be painted separately and installed after the exterior is painted. This will allow me to mask off the interior and protect it from over spray.

Next up will be the remaining exterior paint work and applying the camo pattern.

That a boy Tex watch out for those right hooks and low blows Dragon always throws.

Good Work Bud

Tony lee

Thanks Tony...bob and weave!

GREAT WIP!  I definitely will discard my DML instructions and use your blog instead.  Looking forward to your next update... on Wednesday, right?  Not Sunday as normally scheduled?

HOLY EXCREMENT.....Cats and Dogs living together......Blizzards in Florida........Bill doing back to back updates.......what is this world coming to  

Now for my .....

The inside of the breech is a bit too shiny for me. It looks almost chrome..... IMO a dark aluminum or steel. Now with that bright metallic....the panoramic telescope, the top facing froward is a mirror and should be silvered. There also should be an eyepiece which could also be silvered. It appears all black but you could show some wear on the knobs with steel.

Lastly the recoil slides should also be a steel or dark aluminum color.....they look like a mix of steel and a bit of rust. They would only rust if the gun had not been fired for a while.

OK.....that's my 2 cents.......beat me with a stick..... I will say it is up to the usual outstanding Bill workmanship..... I can't help myself.....I have this thing about cannons!!

Rounds Complete!!

Mike does have a thing about cannons, Bill  :  )

tread

Andy, you're working off an old copy of the TV Guide...my time slot for updates now is variable and no longer tied to Sundays! I'm finishing up my current MBA class (Business law...always a fun topic!) and then get a 6 week break due to already having credit for the next class in the program...so you might see a temporary spike in posting/output over the month of March as a result.

Mike, always glad to get your input on the details! The series of photos that I posted for the gun were "auto corrected" for lighting and color (something I virtually never do with photos) because I was struggling getting the details to show up properly once the gun was built and detailed on my monitor. The correction "brightened" the photos and made some things (like the breech) appear shinier than they really are and also made some things (like the gun sight) appear darker. Go figure.

The details "in hand" matches what you describe, a dark aluminum color and not chrome for the breech and metallic highlights/wear from the dry brusing on the gun sight. DML molded the top facing aperture on the sight extremely tiny for some reason and, while a clear part that would make it possible to show the reflective detail you mention, I was unable to keep the aperture clear when I painted the rest of the sight and that was lost. The eyepiece on German sights has a rubber cup and its drilled out with a spot of silver on the inside but only visible from a specific angle that I didn't capture in the photos (probably drilled the eyepiece a little too deep!). I am going to go back and detail a couple of the knobs on the sight now that I've had a chance to do some research, nice catch.

On the recoil slides, I weathered theem the same way I do bare metal contact surfaces for road wheels and such and wanted a dull appearance. My build isn't going into a dio or including a crew so it's conceivable that the gun hasn't been fired for a while, hence the look I went with.

 Tread, I think Mike's obsession is a manifestation of the little boy in all of us that is fascinated with things that "go boom". That and the fact that he's an engineer...talk about your "explosive" combination! I always appreciate yours (and his) comments!

Bill: She's looking great! Keep the updates coming

BTW: I too am impressed by the size of the fighting compartment- guess you had to be a skinny guy to crew a Bison...

Nice to see you progressing Bill. Getting better by the day.