Dragon Sherman IC Hybrid Firefly - WIP Update 11.07.12

Just a few items that you might want to attend to: the lifting rings on the rear quarters of the turret seem too high. They sat lower.

The lift rings on the rear corners of the engine deck seem to splay outwards. They should be perpendicular with the ground and not the slant of those engine decks.

 Also, you should remove the periscope from the asst driver's hatch.  That area was filled by an extra ammo bin -- so no one sat there.  Therefore, no periscope.  Hope these help.  Good luck w/the painting.

Ben, you better get cracking mate!  I had to go to page three to find this thread!  Are you still feeling the effects of Her Majesty's Jubilee?  

Thanks Andy,

If you fancy a bit of allied armour then this is ideal. The instructions make it look like a nightmare but it's been one of my more simple assemblies.

The barrel really sets it off - it's the RB one which is about 3mm too long according to PMMS but the RB one is most suited to the way the barrel assembles and fixes to the turret.

I hope you get it - you'd work wonders on it!

Ben

Clean and beautiful!  Can't want it with paint on next!  Going for aluminum barrel is probably the best decision for this because it is pretty long!!!  

I am glad you posted picture of the PE sheets... am impressed it came with a good amount of PE options.  I will be visiting two model shops within two weeks in Canada and KY during my vacation so I hope to find this kit.  

wbill76

Ought to be an impressive vehicle once you're all done with it Ben, looking good so far.

Hi guys and thanks for the Bill!

Another couple of weeks and I reckon I will be able to begin painting. My RB Barrel arrived this morning which was handy as I only ordered it yesterday and I'm limited to what I can do regarding the turret assembly. Luckily it's now fully assembled and looks superb - I can't wait to start getting her Green!

I thought this build was going to be really difficult judging by the crazy build guide BUT it's been a real gem. The RB models 17pdr barrel really kicks it off - I did try the kit one but it had a split muzzle brake and really didn't cut it. The 4 sprue attachment point meant a lot of clean up and left it looking a bit shabby The RB Barrel is a beauty, 3mm too long according to various various sources but otherwise a really well made piece - I can live with 3mm.

Anyway - I haven't attached the upper and lower hull halves yet as I've got a bit more work to do on the PE Fenders and hopefully they will work! I've got the plastic option should they not. I've changed all kit grab handles with thin Brass rod versions. The corect Periscopes are in use and overall I am so pleased with how this is turning out!

I've made a couple of minor errors but all have been sorted. The only thing I cannot change is the stwoage box at the back of the turret - I've fitted it to show it sitting flush with the radio box in fron that attached to the back of the turret but it looks like the base should be flush and the top should protude above the radio box but again, I can live with that!

Finally prior to painting, all I have to do is fit the 'conical' antennae mounting and some additional PE strips along the hull sides and at the rear and then simply drop that piece in that groove between the gearbox housing and the light guards. Also, some Mr Surfacer 500 will be needed to cover the section where the turret 'top' meets the base section.

After painting it's stowage and tools. I'm definately feeling the love for Shermans right now (My Dad knows my Grandad drove one in North Africa and later on in France but what variant(s) we don't know as we cannot find his war details, medals or photos ) so a Tasca 'Jumbo' might be on the cards for Christmas!

I hope you like her so far - PLEASE leat me have all of your suggestions and viewpoints etc.!

Thanks for looking guys - sorry for the photo quality but the lighting was obviously pretty poor - I MUST make a proper light box now I have a better camera.

Take care my friends,

Ben  

Ought to be an impressive vehicle once you're all done with it Ben, looking good so far.

satch_ip

Or just get XF-51 Khaki Drab or Humbrol 159 Khaki Drab.

Cheers guys - great link btw!

I have some XF-51 Satch but think it looks too Brown on its own? It may mix nicely when a small amount is added to Olive Drab to take the edge off the Green?

I might well just stick with XF-61 as the weathering will hopefully balance it out just fine. Like I said, nothing heavy but just some watery Buff and Flat Earth  airbrushed around the running gear and the usual pigments and rainmarks.

I'll have an experiment as I topped up my paint stocks with various Green shades when I bought my Jeep knowing that I had this build to come soon too.

Cheers guys,

Ben

Or just get XF-51 Khaki Drab or Humbrol 159 Khaki Drab.

Firefly is coming along nicely...

For the colour, Mike Starmer has done quite a bit of research on British vehicles.  As disastermaster has pointed out,  S.C.C. 15 olive drab is the colour to shoot for.  It was introduced in April 1944 to be used as the new basic colour.  Although when freshly applied looked very similar to the American shade, it tended to weather towards a greener tint.

Starmer on the website gives his formula to mix this shade, but only with Humbrol paints: 150, 159 and 33 mixed in ratio 5:5:2

WEM does make the colour in enamel form (although over on  Britmodeller I've seen it stated that Starmer "wasn't over-impressed" with it) and there is also Xtacrylix  British Olive Drab.

So like you say, can keep it simple and rely on weathering to create some change or you could try mixing your favourite brands after converting the Humbrol numbers, but no gurantees of the results.   Here's a Tamiya ratio I found, but again I can't say it's right or wrong.  From this Link.
5 Parts XF-61 Dk Green
2 Parts XF-62 Olive Drab
2-3 Parts XF-3 Flat Yellow
Drop or 3 of Tamiya Clear

regards,
Jack

Hi guys,

First off - cheers Satch and DM!

I think it's going to a case of following that magazine article where he used XF-62 OD and highlighted OD using Tamiya 'Sky'. Weathering will be kept to a minimun - probably rain/mud streaking and the usual fuel and pigments. No chipping or anything heavy as I understand most didn't see a lot of action. I'm definately thinking of a base and figure if the build turns out well and warrants it.

I've managed to get those bits that I've forgotten to fit yesterday and I've also assembled the .50 cal and the fiddly plastic/PE antennae mount.

All Light Guards now in place:

Close-up of hatches; note closed Periscopes on co-drivers side and Brass rod replacement hatch handles:

Fire Extinguishers now both mounted: 

MG finished and looking good and the stupidly complicated Antennae Mount - I think my PE skills are slowly improving!

If you were wondering about the front fenders they are just going to break off during later assembly so I've decided to wait until the upper and lower hulls are permanently fixed and then fit the fenders as it will make things a lot easier as there are PE and plastic options and I'd like to use the PE if I'm up to it! The decals on the top right are the kit decals - the other decals are what I've been sent as I definately don't want to use one of kit options. Two friends in the UK have fixed me up with the 7th Armoured Div decals and the 'Stag/52' decals. Satch has kindly sent me a huge sheet from his older 1996 kit which really opens up my options. The best one is the 'Antifreeze-Do Not not Drain' white letter decal that goes on the left side panel - I'm really good to go now!

Here we go: 

So, it's turret-time next! I'm off work on Thursday and Friday to use some holiday days up so I hope to have made some good progress by this time next week.

Thanks for looking lads - I hope you like her so far!

Take care and have a good week folks!

Ben  

Here's a bit of info I came across sometime waaay back.

  Bronze Green was used in three different shades on prewar British armor, but was replaced with a medium brown (dubbed SCC 2) in 1942, as the chemicals needed to produce green pigments were in short supply.

To confuse you further......(and this is probably the way to go)

 In 1944, a new color, SCC15 was introduced, which was nicknamed Khaki Drab or British Olive Drab because of its resemblance to the US shade (there was no official name, as the British authorities had decided that wartime paints should be known by number only).

 And then, and then, and then..........

 US-made equipment was normally left in American No. 9 Olive Drab, but rebuilt equipment (like the Firefly) had to be repainted using British paint stocks.

So, to sum it up.......

  the good news first....

Pactra Artillery Olive is the correct/perfect color.

The bad news...... 

It's been out of production about 18 years.

 Then, the good news again.... 

   If you're gonna weather it then don't sweat it too much.

    Gotta run for now......

Ben, I think I used Tamiya Khaki Drab with some Life Color OD modulation.

deafpanzer

Looking real good... I see fair amount of PE coming with the set.  Wish I can answer your question but I haven't built a British armor yet. LOL 

Are you planning to use the 50 cal kit part or aftermarket kit? 

Cheers Andy,

The kit piece is very good and is quite an involved little assembly with PE used on the mount and the barrel looks great so it's more than enough. A brass .50 would look great but this is fine and I don't feel the extre expense is warranted.

A new barrel and correct antennae will be fine

Busy instructions eh? I've noticed just now that I missed off the left side light guard and the two little filler caps on the rear deck!

I'm getting better with the PE but it's still a real PITA! I wanted to use the PE option for the headlight guards but lets just say I was better off with the plastic option after many messy failed attempts! I got the matching two assembled but next to each other they looked totally different and let the vehicle down imo

If anyone can put me on the right direction re the paint colour I'd be super grateful!

So far I've decided on standard XF-62 Olive Drab and have found a great magazine article that shows the author using OD mixed with a little 'Tamiya Sky' (XF number unknown of the top of my head) and also Dark Green used to darken the initial colour so he could use a take on the colour modulation technique - a skill that I'm keen to master.

I've got a few things to do today so time is at a premium - I'll fix those missed parts from yesterday and sort the MG out then that will leave me with the turret to start on next weekend! Sounds like a plan

Money is in short supply but I need that new barrel so luckily pay day is on Thursday which means I can get the barrel ordered on Thursday and with will be here ready for the turret build next weekend.

Looking real good... I see fair amount of PE coming with the set.  Wish I can answer your question but I haven't built a British armor yet. LOL 

Are you planning to use the 50 cal kit part or aftermarket kit? 

Hi guys,

Here's the usual Saturday update - got a nice bit done today:

Up to today the running gear was sorted and the lower hull too. Today I wanted to get started on the upper hull which meant PE, hatches, hinges, lights, light guards and rear engine deck.

Keeping it brief - the lights are all in place along with them big grab handles. A buddy here in England who has really helped me with this build pointed out that as there was no co-driver in a Firefly (hence the lack of a Bow MG) I should assemble the hatch for the co-driver with closed Periscopes and leave the Periscopes visible on driver side only - I'd have assembled all the Periscopes so this advice was well received. I checked a few photos of WWII machines and the majority of these IC's were as he said.

The hatches were a real PITA to assemble - I don't know why but they didn't go together well (hence the messy photo which shows a slight 'over use' of glue on the hatches  With that all done I replaced the plastic grab handles on the hatches which were really skinny plastic affairs with fine Brass rod bent to shape. 

Finally the rear intakes with PE mesh were fitted along with the rear deck.

Here you go - it doesn't look much but this little bit of work took a good few hours in the end!

The mega-busy instructions that have to be kept well marked as the pieces are fitted! 

The next stage is assembly of the.50cal and then turret assembly.

The kit has built up really well and a LOT quicker than I thought - great fun! I must get round to ordering that replacement barrel.

Hope you like her so far. Tomorrow I'll get that .50 assembled which is quite an involved build in itself and see if I can make a start of the turret.

Question: Those who have built the Fireflys have you painted them in OD or have you used different shades of green? Bronze Green get's a lot of mentioning whener a British build is talked about? I know Bronco call out for Bronze Green on their Comet which is in my stash. I'm also wondering that these are coming in from the States - are they left as they are received before being turned into Fireflys and welded etc? 

I'll have some more to show tomorrow.

Cheers guys,

Ben  

Glad I could help.  That's what friends are for, even if they are forum friends!

Hey Satch,

My apologies-they arrived yesterday but I got out of work so late last night I didn't have time to fire the computer up and pm you and just passed out! God I'm busy at the minute!

They are a cracking selection - excellent.

It was interesting to see the instructions you sent - back in 1996 they had a nice well spread out layout of the various steps. In my 2010 Smart Kit they have crammed it all onto 3 sides of paper? EVERYTHING on the sheet has to be highlighted with a pen when fitted or you'd just lose yourself. I don't recall any paper shortage being announced?

I'm not sure exactly what's going to be done yet but they'll prove to be VERY handy and some of the leftovers can be used on my Jeep which is on hold

Much appreciated buddy!

I'll be doing a bit on her tomorrow so be sure to check in

Ben

Ben

Ben, did the decals make it there yet?

satch_ip

Loving it Ben! 

Andy, you have to buy one of these.  They can be had for a song.  I picked one up on a Squadron sale for $12.

Yup,

You'll love this Andy - there's plenty of PE supplied and the cast texture is great on the turret etc but a brushing of Mr Surfacer 500 always helps.

The tracks are fine(as you can see) and mine at least are in no way too long like a lot of people have said (if they were it's a simple job to shorten). The only aftermarket item I'll need is a replacement barrel but the kit one is one piece but with a split muzzle brake so it's fine. A metal barrel will look really good though

If this paints up like it builds up I'll be putting this on a base and buying an AM Brit commander figure from Alpine like the figure you had Andy. I think a Brit tank on a base in our house will be great plus it will be a real talking point due to my Grandfathers Tank antics in North Africa and in France following D-Day (unknown if he drove a standard Sherman but my somewhat 'old and forgetful' Great Uncle seems to think he drove a 'long barreled Sherman'? Could be a Comet I suppose butI'll be sure to paint the figure like my Grandad looked.

$12 Satch! When my parents bought me this for Christmas at the end of 2010 it was £50 less %10 from my somewhat expensive LHS. I only use them for paints now!

WIP update at the weekend!

Take care,

Ben

Loving it Ben! 

Andy, you have to buy one of these.  They can be had for a song.  I picked one up on a Squadron sale for $12.

Excellent work on the wheels!  They look great and it is nice that you didn't have to use aftermarkets.  Maybe I am having second thoughts about not buying a Firefly kit now...

Camo netting from Verlinden looks good too!  

Good afternoon fellas,

Here's the usual weekend update - I worked from home yesterday 2pm-10pm so didn't manage to get any model work done.

Last week I had completed all of the six suspension assemblies and two drive sprockets and the rest of that instruction section (1) was devoted to the front and rear assemblies and the fixing of the running gear to the lower hull. I've got that out of the way now and that's section 1 complete which means I can put the lower hull aside and concentrate on the turret and upper hull.

So, the nose section is on and the rear section with the air filters is assembled too. Knowing that I the next stage will be the upper hull I've chopped that from the sprue, given it a quick clean-up and test fitted it and it fits like a glove. Obviously it's dry-fitted for the photo so I can put the lower hull away now and start ont the upper hull.

I've got to order an RB Firefly Barrel and suitable Antennae but that's it for AM. I've tried fitting the kit DS tracks as I've read in a few reviews that they are too long but they fit PERFECTLY which is a relief!

Section 2 covers assembly of the upper hull and hatches etc. This is where the instructions fall down a little as they try to cram FAR too much into each step! Imo instead of the 6 steps there should be 10 well spaced out assembly instructions so it's just a case of ensuring each little bit is highlighted on the instructions is marked off as it is fitted.

After my build for Tigermans 'Steel Cat's' GB I think I'm definately going to try a few more Allied builds. I fancy Tasca's Jumbo Sherman for a start and I'm not forgetting the Bronco Comet with Accurate Armour resin upgrade set that I have in the stash either!

Anyway, so far-so good! No fitment issues and she's building up nicely - I hope you like her so far!

Today's brief 4 hour session took me to this point-we had family visitors so I had to stop at a good section - the final part of assembly where the lower hull is totally completed:

Note - Tracks are not glued yet! Just dry fitted to test shape and left there for the photos!

Note - upper hull testfitted and left on for photos, she isn't glued in place yet!

1/35 Verlinden OD Netting - perfect for stowage (does this need to be painted in any way)

Well, that's her so far and despite my earlier 'concerns' about this being a 'horrific brain-busting' Dragon build I think I'm wrong - the instructions just made it appear that way. It's so far been a really enjoyable assembly. Just dry fit everything and treble check the instructions before commiting parts to glue!

I hope you like her so far guys

WIP update next weekend - I'm not working either so I'm hoping to get a fair bit done!

Have a good week guys and take care!

Ben

Thank you Buff,

It's not my kit BUT the VVSS suspension builds up the same and other parts like the turret are similar.

The one great thing on there is a link to assembling PE Fenders for Dragon Shermans. I have the choice of both and would like to use the PE but the stuff scares me!

Thanks again - this will come in handy!

I'm working from home today so will be doing some more work on her tomorrow.

I've got the decal issue sorted too; right down to the 'Antifreeze - Do Not Drain' warning on the port side.

WIP update tomorrow,

Take care,

Ben

Ben

This site has a list of fixes that deal with most of the assembly foibles of Dragon Shermans.  I'm not sure he deals with issues specific to this kit, but it is pretty comprehensive.  I hope there's something there you can use.  Good luck.  We can never see enough Fireflies on these boards

http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/Sherman%20Construction/sherman-construction.html

Bill

BRILLIANT SATCH!

This is great stuff! You have saved my life!

You have pm!

Ben

Ben, I've returned home and checked my stash.  I have a set of 3rd County of London Yeomanry, 4th Arm Bde decals I can send you. 

Looks sorta like this...

deafpanzer

You have my attention!  It should be a fun build for everybody to follow especially that we rarely see a Firefly WIP here at FSM unlike other forums especially MidMol.  

Remember to take your time to build it so it will come out great.  Good luck mate!

Thankyou Andy,

I know this is my first ever Sherman based build (there was that 1/48 Tamiya Firefly that I built when I was a newbie but that has long since served as a test bed for new methods and I no longer have that.

This afternoon I made a start as promised - section one deals with the VVSS Suspension Assembly and the assembly of the two Drive Sprockets.

As you can see in the photo they are fully workable and look good - in total I spent 2 1/2 hours on these. Each assembly consists of 12 parts that all need a good clean up.

I like to sit down at the beginning of each session and look at the build guide and say to myself "I want to get to that point before I finish today" and today I did - section one only covers the assembly of the 6 x Suspension assemblies and 2 x Drive Sprockets. I always highlight where I'm up to on the instructions after each session and write notes etc.

Section two covers some more basic assemblies the one section further on goes crazy and gets really busy - it could have done with being broken down into three smaller sections really, I guess they were trying to save paper!

 On the decal front I've found what I want. Perhaps someone has these decals that they could spare?

http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/member_albums/66531/1rtrsherman1ch.jpg

Many thanks guys,

Take care,

Ben

You have my attention!  It should be a fun build for everybody to follow especially that we rarely see a Firefly WIP here at FSM unlike other forums especially MidMol.  

Remember to take your time to build it so it will come out great.  Good luck mate!

Tojo72

Here's that OD article:

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4536

Cheers Tojo - that is REALLY helpful!

I do feel that seeing it's Jubilee Year AND the 2012 London Olympics a British Sherman Firefly is a perfect build and the timing is great too.

I'm looking for suitable replacement waterslide decals or Transfers that I can buy but I don't know where to start really. Can anyone help on that front please?

Many thanks,

Ben

Here's that OD article:

http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4536