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MBT70--SCUTTLED!

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 12:43 PM

Ye, I see what you mean Karl. Tricky one.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 10:07 AM

Yes, an operational MBT-70 is a nice "what if" armor modelers dream project. Just the power pack and armament options alone make for interesting options. Detail fitting like smoke grenade launchers, stowage boxes and racks, external pintle mount machine guns for the TC and drivers hatches, MERDC or MASSTER camo... it's not even too far a stretch to imagine an ERA block fit coming along in the mid 80s or so.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 9:57 AM

those big boxes on the US version are weights added to compensate for the lighter mild steel that the prototypes were made of.

None of the surviving American versions are the same, so it would be hard to produce an American version. I plan on making mine into what I think and American tank would have looked like if it had been placed into production. Among the options is if it received a different main gun like a standard US 105mm or the German 120mm we use today.

To deal with the back deck, I'm thinking of seeing if the engine deck details from an M60 will work. But this might be a bridge too far.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 8:55 AM

Not to wander off subject here but I've got most of a Dragon M103A1 together without any real issues but for the darn thermal shield on the engine deck. It sticks up so high the turret rubs against it when you mount it. Mike, did you have this problem?  I think Mister T had the same issue on his.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 8:47 AM

Looking forward to your handling of the beast.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, February 4, 2015 7:34 AM

Bish, I was thinking of the same thing. I dunno if it will weaken the joints too much...I haven't gotten that far yet!

Mike, I have the M103 kit, but I haven't finished it yet. It's still in the stash. I do know, however, that the Patton series of tanks do have some complex suspension assemblies. By the way, if you have a Dremel tool, putting those lightening holes in is no problem. YOu can ever drill them in without much effort, but if you are doing a commission where the guy is fronting the cost, you might as well use AM parts. :)

Jean-Michel, thanks---the turret kinda does have that impression, doesn't it? In the front mantlet area...don't know what I"ll do about the tracks yet. I should be getting to those by week's end.. :)

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:13 PM

The scratch replacements looks fine to me!  Off to a good start Karl.  The tracks look rather disappointing and are a step backward IMHO....  Sure, it might save a lot of time in the end, but like you pointed out, the joints might be noticeable.  Like Bish mentioned, you might be able to cut slits in the joints to make them look like normal links, it could help in "blending them".  Seems like it might be a bit tricky though.

Is it just me, or does the turret have a bit of a Sturmgeschütz look to it?  

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 7:42 PM

Karl, if you have already finished the M-103A1 then you know what I'm up against lol. The suspension is a whole kit on its own. I have the only just completed the drive sprockets and I got the slotted resin replacements for the outer sprockets. After a light clean up they fit perfect.

I'll post a WIP when I can get pictures. This build is meant to be a gift for the guy who wrote a book about it. My father is a member on tank.net and he talks shop with the guys there. My Dad was an Army tanker in the 70's and he's got a lot of info that he shares with me lol. He has a lot of this guy's books. I think they are friends, but I don't know.

Aside from the correct outer drive sprockets this kit will be a completely OOB build.

Can't wait to see what you do with this build Karl. From all the other builds you've done I know this one will not disappoint.  :)

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 4:36 PM

main problem I can see is that you have 2 joins on each track. Are both joins the same. Would it be possible to cut slits to match the other links.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 4:27 PM

Hey Mike,

I give ya credit for doing commissioned builds. I've done a few myself--just turned one down in November--but I have found that I can't stand to give them up once they're done, lol. I'm like that "surrogate mom" who doesn't want to give up the baby once she's carried it for nine months, lol. I just can't bear to part with them!

I have the original M103 kit. Haven't seen the second release yet. Post up a WIP on it!

Steve, I promise it'll be cool... :)

Thanks for following along, Bish! I'm going to try to hide that track joint. Hope it's not too hard. ...

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 3:24 PM

Black label, now that's a new one on me. Not to keen on the look of those tracks, hope this isn't going to be a sign of things to come. Certainly an interesting subject, look forward to seeing more.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 3:17 PM

http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/confused/confused-8.gif A clean build?

              http://nyfalls.com/board/images/smilies/panic.gif   Well......... we was warned.

                 Hmmmm.....  http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/computer-smileys/written.gif definitely something different  

               As always with Karl, http://www.nscale.net/forums/mysmiliesvb/mysmilie_511.gif We'll so be watching 'ya http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n55/tiggerracer/smileys/razz%20smileys/thputertired.gif~original

                             

                             

                                                            

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Tumwater, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 12:26 PM

Very cool Karl. I'm building the M-103A2 Black Label on commission and I'm more than a little over-whelmed by all of the assembly. Mine is supposed to be clean, but a little dusty, on a firing range in Guantanamo in the late 60's.

I will be watching what you do with this build and possibly replicating some things as I go.  :)

- Mike Brindos "Lost Boy"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 11:00 AM

This is gonna be another good one to watch! I do love Cold War stuff. Even if it never made it to full scale production.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 10:31 AM

Very cool Karl, will be following for sure here!

And I look forward to the 'clean' build though thinking about how the tanks used to look at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox it would be kinda cool to do a tank that's been sitting on a concrete slab for the last thirty years with all the peeling paint, rust, and rotting rubber on the road wheels.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
MBT70--SCUTTLED!
Posted by the doog on Tuesday, February 3, 2015 9:23 AM

Hey all,

Back to the bench, and making progress on the "Black Label" MBT70 kit. I first saw this tank in the Aberdeen "sheds" where they had some un-displayed vehicles in 1983, when I took a tour of the big warehouses with Bill Atwater, director of the museum, It made a huge impression on me, a neophyte armor modeler at the time; of course, I saw an American version, while this is the German  version. Still...it was kinda like seeing the Holy Grail at the time, when the Abrams was still in its earliest configurations and still having its bugs worked out. The tank was almost mythical at the time. It was just sitting there in dust, and I have pictures of it that I will eventually post here--I have to retrieve them from my parent's home in Pennsylvania...

The MBT70 was a fascinating vehicle. It was lower and faster than an M60. and had brand new version (at the time) of spaced armor. Coolest of all, it had hydropneumatic suspension, which meant it could "hull down" in defilade. One bizarre thing was that the driver sat in the turret! How weird? The weapons system however--aside from the excellent German-made main gun--was very very troublesome and too complex. Further problems with the new turbine engine spelled its doom. From Wiki: "Commentators on the MBT-70 typically assert that though it was innovative in many respects, the project was ruined by the use of too many untried and unproven technologies. Senator James W. Fulbright mentioned that "to drive a MBT-70, a master's degree in a technical institute would be required." Bummer.

I have waited many years to see this in kit form, and I"m happy to now build it, even if it's a German style. I have no doubt that the American version will be out soon. For the record, YOU CAN NOT BUILD AN AMERICAN VERSION OUT-OF-THE-BOX WITH THIS KIT!!! From the research I have done, a "Chuck4" on Armorama has posted that:

"...German engine deck has two big round openings for the radiator fans, the American one doesn't.
German rear bulkhead has horizontal air louvres, American ones don't
German turret tops usually feature two separate independent rotating pericsopic sighting heads. Most American prototypes seem to feature only one.
German vehicles have distinctive German single lens circular headlight with little blackout lamps on top, American vehicles have m-60 style twin lens head lamps. "  ---so that's that!

I will be painting this model in a "clean" style, focusing on rendering a "scale effect" finish through shading and painting. I want to make it look just like it looked when I saw it---clean, but just a lttlwe bit of dust.. It'll have some age-related weathering--leaky road seals, etc. but nothing else.

First, here's the differences between the two, visually. You can't really miss the differences. Strange that the AMerican one has the big beer coolers on the turret side, but not the German one?! WinkBeer

Here's the kit and some of the elements:

A nice addition is this 4-page walkaround in color. I would have preferred a fret of Photoetch for the many small chains that go around the vehicle and also the engine vent screens which are missing, but this is still a nice touch, and necessary too, as some of the instructions have rather ambiguous placement drawings. There are no available PE sets for this model as of yet, so I'm going to build it basically OOB with perhaps a few small details, like said chains.

THe kit contents.

I guess you can't have enerything---like indy track links----but this has to be a new low for DML. Two-piece rubber bands?!?!?! WHAT IS THIS nonsense?!?!? Has DML been bought out by old Italeri execs?!!? Unforgiveable!! The top one is joined.

Now, some might say "Meh, what's wrong with that?" Well, here's what you get when you join the two--see how the spaces between the links is solid now? That means you CAN see the tracks joint. Just one of many odd and questionable engineering examples that I found in this kit so far--and I"m only done with the hull!

OK, so beginning with the suspension: look at the instructions for the suspension arms---they are coded so as to be put in in pairs, with different numbered arms; Parts D30, 31, 32, 33, etc, and four steps "D1, D2, D3, D4" etc., to be placed in alternating sequence...

!However, there is absolutely NO difference between either the suspension arms. So why not just mark them with the same numbers and assemble them as a whole, single step?

A bummer here: these small arms are supposed to go on the suspension bogeys. Two of them are incompletely formed. Ugh,. It figures--a rather complex bend to have to replicate.

Half an hour or more later...the two top ones are the replacemnents..not bad, passable at least. THese parts are actually 95% hidden behind the units.

Suspension finished...

The lights are a tricky affair to build. One slighly annoying thing about this kit is the use of very light  locating "indents" rather than actual "tabs and holes". It make assembly more tedious and dificult. You have to really watch that these lights get lined up and positioned correctly, This is where the color profile comes in handy.

The rear hull finished.

Another tricky assembly--the smoke dischargers. The mounts are each individually "handed", so make sure you watch the orientation of each individual one. Again, this is where the color profile helps in establishing the correct "sit".

I think I got them close to what was intended...

It's goog to have a modeling buddy to help with tedious sanding, etc..

That's it for now....back to the bench! Smile

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