Need your help to decipher a photo of Jagdtiger

The tank 314 (Jagdtiger) is the one of my grandfather.

Sorry for the oversight Jon. Thank you for the support. I have several Ryton books, they are actually a local publisher for me. I'm not sure why I bother trying to answer these kind of questions. It's difficult to tell whether people are just jerking people around for sport.

QUOTE: [i] I would like to point out however, I am the only one on this thread who even bothered to quote ANY primary reference materials,

a stated Photo reference in my Ryton book (its an expencive book)

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion and if you don't trust the books, where are you getting your information from? The Internet?

Why, from the man in my lap, of course.

Well, I think we have all learned something here. You can't trust the books, you can't trust the photos and you can't trust your own senses. How about we subject the photo to multi-spectral analysis to see if it can detect the spectral signature of Barium Sulfate, a critical ingredient of Zimmerit. That would settle this,..... not!
I would like to point out however, I am the only one on this thread who even bothered to quote ANY primary reference materials, and if you don't trust the books, where are you getting your information from? The Internet?

QUOTE: Originally posted by edog The caption in the book interprets the number to be ?250287? and NOT ?250787? (which I had originally thought too). .

edog, now we can start a new discusion ; is it a "2" or is it a "7"

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk A Big Foot with zimmerit? Cool!

Thats a good one J-Hulk

Larry: That was funny , whats even funnier is what we have going here so far , and I feel this is far from over here , is a 5 page 82 reply thread as to whether a tank has zimmerit or not ! This is looking like some european forums I have seen , total battles sometimes ! Funny stuff and the reason all of us come here to begin with ! To learn something and get a laugh or 2 Perdexion : Thanks again for the info and no hard feelings , noone doubts what you have shown us here . Its all fun .

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion Be sure to blow this up 400% and contrast stretch this image, as the Zimmerit will become much more visible.

Not necessary! I know the chassis number of the Sherman, and that is infallible evidence that the Sherman did nothave Zimm!

The chassis number, you see, ends in a 6. The Undersecretary of War for Sherman Zimmerit during World War II, who is sitting on my lap right now, informs me that chassis numbers ending in a 6 were coated in a special anti-Zimm mixture that made applying zimmerit impossible, and ended in the fatal electrocution of the person attempting application.

Don't believe the photos showing the Germans slapping the zimmerit on, or those audiotapes of them singing, "Zimm, Zimm, Zimm, I love to put Zimm of a Shermie!" Believe the man in my lap!

A Big Foot with zimmerit?
Cool!

Well, Monrad is correct. The picture of the Tigers comes from the Concord publication Panzer-Division 1935-1945. The caption in the book interprets the number to be “250287” and NOT “250787” (which I had originally thought too). That puts the production in June, which makes more sense because in October the headlight configuration was changed to the single center one. However, the new style tracks were not introduced until October… Hmmmm, well whatever the story may be behind this Tiger, it appears that it came from the factory with the zim applied; otherwise the crew would probably have painted over the hull number when putting a new coat of paint over the field applied zim.

Peridexion, sounds like you were looking entirely too hard to find something wrong with the picture. Believe it or not, I did not choose this picture to make any kind of a point. I just wanted to see what kind of a reaction it would get in a thread that seemed to have a lot of different interpretations going on, but it appears that most everyone has left the thread. I must admit though, the way you explained it, it did fit the previous situation quite well.

One more interesting thing about the picture. If you look closely, you can see that the Tigers on either side also have older turrets with zim applied. The one on the left is a command version with the turret track brackets and the old cupola, and the one on the right is an even older production turret with no track brackets. For a Tiger freak, its like finding a picture of Big Foot!!! Well, not quite, but close…

Strangely silent...hum.....It looks pretty clear to me. After all, if you can't trust your own eyes, what can you trust? Wanna see my 1970 Pontiac GTO in vertical groove, cross-hatch pattern?

LOL, that's rich!

As promised, I have here an extremely rare photo of a Zimmerit covered Sherman, a M4A1 (76)W to be exact, captured by the 43rd SS Panzer Division, Das Wrong, after the fall of Spuriousburg in late 1947 and later recaptured by Patton's 3rd Army near Whateversville. Note; this image has not been retouched in any manner!



Be sure to blow this up 400% and contrast stretch this image, as the Zimmerit will become much more visible.
I also have an even rarer photo of a M18 Hellcat with the Waffle Pattern Zimmerit, but it is only visible at extremely high magnification.

Edog, Monrad has roared right past me and my limited powers of perception, obviously elucidating your intended point here. You can not always rely on chassis numbers as conclusive identification, because vehicles were commonly returned to field workshops or even the factories and rebuilt with parts of various different production variants, producing vehicles that possess characteristics of several different models at once. This is true, I have many photos of such vehicles. However, this most likely does not apply to our beloved Jagdtiger, since once these beasts were immobilized in combat, they were rarely recovered by the Germans, if ever. I suppose it is possible that there could have been rebuilds of these monsters, but here again, I see no evidence of this in the texts, but then again, I haven't been looking.....yet. In any case, they would not have been converted from Porsche suspension to Henschel, as this would require complete stripping of the hull and an extensive filling and re-machining of the hull for the torsion bars to be fitted. There is no record of this kind of action having been taken. Still, your point is well founded and correct for the majority of cases involving strange vehicle variations. It does not however, get rid of those pesky scanning lines, which I am quite sure are the source of our little contention.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion If you folks are still having problems with this, I'll post my photos of Zimmerited Shermans, T-72s and Abrams.

Are those in the Jagdtiger book too? I'd love to see them! I know several people who would love to put zimm on a Sherman.

Here is your Zimmerit. Neatly applied to the tracks, wheels and tree branches as well. This is an artifact, in this case they are the scanning lines. Open your mind and close your eyes, for your eyes deceive you.



If you folks are still having problems with this, I'll post my photos of Zimmerited Shermans, T-72s and Abrams.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Captain Caveman Did the Churchill tanks have zimerit?

Depends on chassis number and whether the crews were English or Scotsmen.

OH GOOD i dont have to put the Zimerit on my Panther

Did the Churchill tanks have zimerit?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion Sorry for the snap edog, but this thread was starting to wear on my nerves.

Take a deeeeep breath ... [:0] No need to expend useful psychic energy (or whatever crap the new age people say) on what is, after all, just another absurd overweight German wet-dream waste-of-resources of a vehicle.

That said ... I dunno, I still see some zimm ....

Can I have a guess here edog!! What I see in the picture is a Tiger with an early turret ( the comanders cupola ) and with the headlights placed in the early position.
But it has zimmerit and late tracks. The hull number indicates that it was produced in January 1944. This fits with the tracks and the zimmerit but not the turret and the headlights. Am I close edog ??

OK, one of the bolts "appears" to be missing on the gun mantlet.

NP, threads have done that to me in the past too. Im glad there is no grudge; I should have chosen my words more carefully.

Oh, and guess again...

Sorry for the snap edog, but this thread was starting to wear on my nerves. Next time I'll be the one who sits back and laughs while the hole digs deeper. Geezz....

OK, I spaced on the chassis number, for some reason it looked weird. Had to check my references...hummmm.....imagine that....I forgot tiger chassis numbers started with 250.... How about the little rectangle thingy below the headlight?

QUOTE: Originally posted by T-34 Hmmmm one hard topic to discuss, I would say yes because almost all armored viecals had zimmerit, so that magnettic granades wouldn't stick. Well not all tanks only the big ones starting with the Tiger and up. No Panthers!

What are you talking about. Are you saying that panthers didn't have zimmerit?? well some of them did, so did the Stug's. Are you also saying that all of the heavy tanks had zimmerit, because they didn't, some of the early Tigers didn't have zimmerit, and on September 9th 1944 came the order to stop aplying zimmerit and all tanks produced after this date didn't have zimmerit, no matter if it was a Tiger,a Jagdtiger,a Jagdpanther or what ever.

That number on the splash plate is the chassis number. This tank has apparently just been delivered to the unit, but this does not make it unusual. Guess again…

Yes, I see the little number on the splash rail, what is that supposed to be?

LOL, I must confess, that I have been having a wonderful time watching you guys debate this issue for entirely too long!! Anyway, just so the great conversation does not end at this point, I thought I would throw in a pic for you guys to interpret.

Here you go, have fun with it guys:


I will let you guys know what the picture caption says when the conversation dies down again

Oh my GOD!

I have'nt been here for a couple of days and, allmost, all hell breaks loose. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed it at least...

Peridexion thank you for your incomperable info. Looks to me youre reference is corect. all I can trust is my weare eyes. debating along this issue was always very late at night. well I do live on the "other" side of the globe.
So I'll forget about tiny hints of lines that might be zimmerit. Besides all I want to model is #305010, cuz like I said, I allready put the zimm.

So thank you all for the debate. I never thought it would go that far. you guys are the est!!!

Hmmmm one hard topic to discuss, I would say yes because almost all armored viecals had zimmerit, so that magnettic granades wouldn't stick. Well not all tanks only the big ones starting with the Tiger and up. No Panthers!