Need your help to decipher a photo of Jagdtiger

Man! That was a change of attitude. I'm glad you weren't depressed by all this. Roll with the punches. Things always seem to work out.

Try and get those pics up. We'd all love to see them.

WHERE WHERE WHERE???
Where can I find it? I like swirly, as a matter of fact I LOVE SWIRLY. where can I find it???
Sorrey for drolling from excitment

If it would help, Jagdtiger #305010, the last zimmerited Jagdtiger, was also a Porsche, and it has a really neat, 3 tone, swirly paint scheme. Plus, I just happen to know a guy who has several photos and even color artwork of this vehicle.

Monrad thanks for the cheer up. yea I guess it's not that bad.

I wish I could show pics, dont have a digi cam yet. Maybe I'll borow it from my girlfriends brother. if he'll let me...
I was planning on buying a new Jagdtiger Henschell type, I have the Jaguar interior and think it would be a nice project. I did'nt want to use it with the Porsche cause of the different running gear. Well maybe I'll nail it next time.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ShModeler Okay Okay I'll confess!!! I allready started to apply zimmerit and removing it will ruin the nice hull/no-turreet texture made by dragon. then I came along the photo and thought wow this would make a nice dio... All I got left is a single colour camo and I think it's dull... Now that I know there is no zimm if I'll be modeling it, it will destroy the integrity of modeling, DANG!

NO, as a modeler you are free to do as you wish. If you want to paint it pink you can do that. You will destroy the integrity of modeling if you finish the model, take it to a show and claim that it is 100% correct knowing that it isn't.
You can finish the model and put it on your shelf, then build a new and correct one for the dio.
Just show us the pics.

Okay Okay I'll confess!!!

I allready started to apply zimmerit and removing it will ruin the nice hull/no-turreet texture made by dragon. then I came along the photo and thought wow this would make a nice dio...
All I got left is a single colour camo and I think it's dull...
Now that I know there is no zimm if I'll be modeling it, it will destroy the integrity of modeling, DANG!

Shahar, not that I want to open this back up again, but...

I think the lines you're seeing on the picture are either light scratches or possibly film grain. But, who knows. In any event, Idon't think anyone here would care if you want to add zimm til the cows come home. As long as you are having fun with your modeling, that's what counts.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion The 558 page, 700+ photos in the book: Combat History of Schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 653 has everything anyone would care to know about this unit,

Criminy! They built areound 70 of those things, right? That's, what, eight pages for every vehicle You gotta love the Panzer fetish sometimes.

Gee, so sorry to spoil the fun. I should have let this go for a few more pages and see if it went into a tailspin. Anyway, I have several more photos of this vehicle, it's crew and it's complete operational history, just in case you need more info. The 558 page, 700+ photos in the book: Combat History of Schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 653 has everything anyone would care to know about this unit, and at $102 for this book, it should! Do you really want to know what the camo is, or should I let you guys go back to your previous discussion? I would hate to rain on the parade.

So I guess my eyes are confusing me, pridexion?

Well what if I want it with zimmerit?
Will someone bite my head off?

Leave it to Peridexion to show up and ruin a perfectly good arguement!

Thanks for the info - now, about camoflage.

Gentlemen, you can argue about these photos until the cows come home, but there is a definite answer. The Jagdtiger in question is chassis # 305012, the last Porsche Jagdtiger built. This vehicle, attached to s.Pz.Jg.Abt.653, lost it's transmission near Morsbronn on March 16th, 1945. Jagdtiger chassis # 305010 was the last Jagdtiger built with zimmerit. So, no zimmerit was present on this vehicle. This information is taken from the book; Jagdtiger, the Most Powerful Armoured Fighting Vehicle of World War II, volume 2, Operational History, by Andrew Devey. ISBN: 0-7643-0751-7. These two volumes are the definitive study of this vehicle and it's operations.

D'oh! You had to ask, didn't ya??? Well, now you've done it!!
It says RIGHT HERE in chapter 32 of Vol. 17 of ...

Jus' kidding!
Just pokin' a little light-hearted fun at the often serious (and VERY knowledgeable) folks over at ML!

OK. here's my call...
of not being sure.

After looking and zooming in at the front pic, you can see that where the glacis meet, at the front end, you can clearly see the weld lines, clearly no zimm there.
But when looking above the weld line and below the gun travel lock, you can see faint lines. could be zimm but could be shadows??
Looking at the ball Mg mount and the fender you can see some diagonal lines, like claymore stated, these look like the circuled zimmerit that you can see something around the bow Mg's.
Also look at glacis just right off the tree, it's clear there are more lines. but again maybe more shadows?
However the front fenders appear to be clean of any lines.

Looking at the second pic, you can see the line of where the fender was before. unlike edog, it looks to me, that maybe there was zimmerit there but it may have fainted a bit.
However there might be just a difference of colours there as the upper colour is Dunkelgelb and below the line of the fender it's Red primer...

When I look at the nomber indeed it looks stenciled BUT(!) it looks like it's painted on some rectangle, just like Jagdpanzer IV.
I come to that, because there is a clear line between the nomber and the cross.
It also looks that the darker colour, maybe panzer braun, is not 'weavee'
enough as this rectangle, is breaking it . but then again maybe I'm all wrong.

QUOTE: Hey, this might even turn into one of those Missing-Lynx style brawls! "I say it's zimmed!" "I say it ain't!" "Is!" "Ain't!!" Please please PLEASE, don't anybody ask if the hard-edged camo was applied at the factory, or in the field! I beg you, DON'T ASK!!!!

So do you think the heard edged camo was applied on the field? or maybe the factory?
Sorrey brian, had to ask

QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw As for the debate, to me, it looks like the first one might have zim, but I'm not sure. I can't see any on the second (front) shot.

To me, the first shot shows the vehicle's lines sufficientlu sharply to indicate that there's no zimm on it. I was suspicious of that second shot, though. In old, poor photos, zimmerite often doesn't appear as waves of lines. More often, it looks like someone very neatly applied mud to the front of the vehicle.

The Russians say that the Zimm may or may not have been useful for magnetic explosives, but it was definitely good at breaking the sharp edges of the German vehicles, and if you look at the first pic, it has much less sharp edges than in the first pic.

Final answer has already been said, though -- more research is necessary to determine. The vehicle seems to have been captured. What was its fate? Was it scrapped or sent to the US or UK for analysis?

I have the defiative answer to the ? of where hard edged camo was applied....



ON THE TANK!!!!

Hey, this might even turn into one of those Missing-Lynx style brawls!

"I say it's zimmed!"
"I say it ain't!"
"Is!"
"Ain't!!"

Please please PLEASE, don't anybody ask if the hard-edged camo was applied at the factory, or in the field!

I beg you, DON'T ASK!!!!

QUOTE: That would have made it too easy, think about it ; if it had been high res, digital pics, we wouldn't be having this interesting discussion.

Hmmm, that's possible. There probably would have been too much flash, anyway!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw Thanks for the link, Shahar. That's a cool site. As for the debate, to me, it looks like the first one might have zim, but I'm not sure. I can't see any on the second (front) shot. I don't know why these guys couldn't take some nice, higs res, digital pics and post them directly!!

That would have made it too easy, think about it ; if it had been high res, digital pics, we wouldn't be having this interesting discussion.

Thanks for the link, Shahar. That's a cool site.

As for the debate, to me, it looks like the first one might have zim, but I'm not sure. I can't see any on the second (front) shot.

I don't know why these guys couldn't take some nice, higs res, digital pics and post them directly!!

That's a tough call, but I think there's enough evidence in those two pictures to conclude that there's zimmerit on that vehicle. Edog is probably right, if you have to 100% sure some better information is needed.

From that first pic, I would say not. You can see the dirt line where the fender was and this would lead me to believe that if there was zim there, then you would be able to see it. If you have to be 100% sure, I would try to find out a bit about the unit history. When were these vehicles assigned to the unit, and are there pictures of any other vehicles in the unit?

Just as a guess, this vehicle was probably made during, or after the month of September and the application of zim was ended in the beginning of September. I would say no, there is no zim on it.

From the first shot I say no, the tone on the hull sides (front and rear) are too even and the number and cross also look to be stenciled instead of hand painted.
On the second shot there appears to be some diagonal lines between the bow mg mount and the right fender (our left) but I can't say for sure that it is zim.

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk Hmmm...I don't see it in either!

Nice pics, but I don't see any zimmerit.

Hmmm...I don't see it in either!

Thundergod you dont have to go to your friend for this one. I dont want you to get out of your cozy home just for that. thanks a lot for your willingness, it's sure nice of you.

Thanks Larry, now it's gonna be easier.
BTW how did you do it, bringin the photos here? I'll need to learn that...

Let the debate begin!





From the first picture, I'd say no. From the second picture, I'd say yes.

Yes some of them did it was on the sides of hull as usual even the fenders did at times and it only went roughly half way up the turret ,stopped where the first set of spare track links are (going up from the hull) I do have a whole book on the jagdtiger and tried to take a pic but it was to fuzzy, I will try again alittle later if you want I will get my friends cam.

And if you look at the first set of pics on the site you have there 3rd pic it has the zim on it so does the second pic 4th row like I was explaining it has its fenders done as well.

Here is a link click on it and then on ATAK first set of parts is for the jagdtiger also some other good stuff

http://www.bentbutnotbroken.com/tbsindex.htm
Hope this helped ya and thanks for the site

Hmmmm....I looked at both, and can't tell!
My first impression was there is no zimmerit, but I really can't tell.
Nice site, though!