"The Hunters GB" (2/1/08 to 6/1/08)

Carves wrote:

STUG61 wrote: Eric I'll be doing the AFV club Achilles Mk.II.c. I'll save all the Stugs in the stash for later!! Hey I have a StuG in my stash too. Maybe we can wait until StuG GB come around. --- Ben

It's was done about 3 years ago. I lost the badge. I'd certainly go for another round. I have the Dragon G late with all my goods........waiting. 

tigerman wrote:

Oh, you're going to be sent to the corner Mister....... You make some good points. This is getting complicted isn't it. The thin-skinned vehicles would be better suited for ambush, but even the heavier ones did the same. Hmmmm. I would omit the halftracks from the list. To me they don't fit the characteristics of a TD hunter. Sorry to all.

Hahahahahha....sorry for being a pain. Just trying to clarify.

So then the edited list (Hermes compilation) would look something like this...?

German
StuG III Ausf F, G w/75mm StuK 42
StuG IV
Marder series
SdKfz 251/22
SdKfz 250/10
Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer
Jadpanzer IV series
E-10/E-20
Hornisse/Nashorn
Ferdinand/Elefant
Jagdpanzer V Jagdpanther
Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger 

US
M3 GMC
M6 Fargo GMC
M10 Wolverine GMC
M18 Hellcat GMC
M36 Jackson GMC 

Russia
SU-76
SU-85
SU-100
ISU-122
ISU-152 

Great Britain
Firefly
Archer
Achilles
Cruiser Mk VIII Challenger

dupes wrote:

tigerman wrote: Oh, you're going to be sent to the corner Mister....... You make some good points. This is getting complicted isn't it. The thin-skinned vehicles would be better suited for ambush, but even the heavier ones did the same. Hmmmm. I would omit the halftracks from the list. To me they don't fit the characteristics of a TD hunter. Sorry to all. Hahahahahha....sorry for being a pain. Just trying to clarify. So then the edited list (Hermes compilation) would look something like this...? German StuG III Ausf F, G w/75mm StuK 42 StuG IV Marder series SdKfz 251/22 SdKfz 250/10 Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer Jadpanzer IV series E-10/E-20 Hornisse/Nashorn Ferdinand/Elefant Jagdpanzer V Jagdpanther Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger  US M3 GMC M6 Fargo GMC M10 Wolverine GMC M18 Hellcat GMC M36 Jackson GMC  Russia SU-76 SU-85 SU-100 ISU-122 ISU-152  Great Britain Firefly Archer Achilles Cruiser Mk VIII Challenger

That's a nice compliation. Still plenty of choices, though German will be dominant. 

jthurston wrote:

OK, here's the hunters in my stash: DML Marder II, StuG III G, Nashorn, Jagdpanther (early) (x2 for some reason); Tamiya 110 M8. So I'll build one of the jagdpanthers, prolly either OOB or with only minor AM (maybe a barrel, etc).

Thurston - I'm sure I could help you lighten your stash-load of that "extra" JP if necessary...

dupes wrote:

jthurston wrote: OK, here's the hunters in my stash: DML Marder II, StuG III G, Nashorn, Jagdpanther (early) (x2 for some reason); Tamiya 110 M8. So I'll build one of the jagdpanthers, prolly either OOB or with only minor AM (maybe a barrel, etc). Thurston - I'm sure I could help you lighten your stash-load of that "extra" JP if necessary...

Watch out for that pair of sink mark infested treads though, providing it's the older Imperial series kit (9015 i believe).  My plan to have a lil more TLC for an old kit like this went out the window the minute I saw those tracklinks.

Wow.... this GB sure took off  fast.

19 people has joined

Should be fun fun fun

---
Ben

Carves wrote:

Wow.... this GB sure took off  fast. 19 people has joined Should be fun fun fun --- Ben

I think the masses have been waiting for something to begin.

This should get me off my lazy end and back to the bench. I've been slaving around the house for the past 2 weeks.

I reiterate that the SU-122 should qualify:

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=45&lang=en

Brews wrote:

I reiterate that the SU-122 should qualify: http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=45&lang=en

Awesome story there. 

But the main design and purpose for the SU-122 was still an assault support vehicle and self-propelled artillery.  A large calibre shell with close enough distance can definitely cause damage to any heavy armor, but like the report had mentioned, most ended up as dents.  It was like smashing your 1/35 tank with a large hammer (yes i had done it in real life with older 1/48 bandai kits... everyone has their regrets...), so the only thing that broke apart are the joints since their were the weakest pieces.  I am pretty sure a barrage of direct fire from an M109 can flatten even the Abrams.  (heavyarty if you are interested enough to read this topic, correct me on it).  Most TDs have high velocity guns that aim to penetrate the thick armor instead for a one shot kill since their own weak protection doesn't allow any return fire.  In that aspect, the SU-122 just isn't a TD. 

archangel571 wrote:

dupes wrote:  jthurston wrote: OK, here's the hunters in my stash: DML Marder II, StuG III G, Nashorn, Jagdpanther (early) (x2 for some reason); Tamiya 110 M8. So I'll build one of the jagdpanthers, prolly either OOB or with only minor AM (maybe a barrel, etc). Thurston - I'm sure I could help you lighten your stash-load of that "extra" JP if necessary... Watch out for that pair of sink mark infested treads though, providing it's the older Imperial series kit (9015 i believe).  My plan to have a lil more TLC for an old kit like this went out the window the minute I saw those tracklinks.

Yup. It's kit #9012. And it is bad with the stink marks (ejector marks, actually, IIRC). I mean, um, sink marks. I'm not sure right now, but I might have some AM Panther tracks laying around, waiting to wrap around them roadwheels.

If not, well there's another $40.

Not to be argumentive, so don't take this the wrong way. I don't think that the Sd.Kfz. 251/22 should be ruled out. As the PaK 40 remained the most prolific anti tank weapon that the Germans used. More were produced than practically any other PaK.  So any anti tank weapons mounted on a self propelled chasis should not be ruled out. This is the same PaK that the Marder used. If we are allowing a Firefly (a tank with a opened top traversable turret? Then why not these?) While I do not build Allied armor (O.K. maybee 1 or 5   ) I am not saying that the Firefly shouled be ruled out esp. due to the lack of  Allied subjects. I am not sugesting any German PaK lower than a 7.5cm KwK L/40 be allowed either, or any German traversible turrets.  How ever a Sd.Kfz. 234/4 should also be added to the list. The Encoclopedia of German Tanks lists these as anti tank vehicles. I also feel that the 251/22 should be put back on the list as it was also intended to help fill the anti tank role. I am looking forwards to any thoughts any one has on this matter.

Best Regards,

              Mark

I realise that I'm at severe risk of flogging a dead horse, but I quote:

"In May 1943, the new BP-460A HEAT round was accepted. That ammunition allowed the SU-122 to deal with enemy AFV's at long distances successfully."

I think part of the problem here is everyone is trying to come up with tank destroyers...which includes LOTS of vehicles, depending on how broad ones definition of TD is.

The fact is that this group build is titled "Hunters" not "Tank Destroyers", and as such is truly only subject to the vehicles that Tigerman wishes to include.

I think we also need to consider that while lots of vehicles had the capabilities to destroy tanks, that is NOT what they were made for. Not many 251/22's or 234/4's were sent out on "hunting" missions to knock out Shermans, as far as I know.

Just my , of course.

dupes wrote:

I think we also need to consider that while lots of vehicles had the capabilities to destroy tanks, that is NOT what they were made for. Not many 251/22's or 234/4's were sent out on "hunting" missions to knock out Shermans, as far as I know. Just my , of course.

I think that sums it up best. I mean this will be become so broad if we don't define it. I have some reservations about the Firefly too. It fits the definition of an MBT better than TD. This would be a good settlement for Roy Chow help define.

Specter and Luftwoller, got you guys down.

If your only going to accept "Panzer Jager vehicles" (Tank Hunter vehicles) by definition...to be acceptable subjects for the GB....

...then you would have to include this one also....Panzer Jager Bren 731 (e) 

I agree with Dupes,  Tigerman starts it and can define hunter any way he wishes.  WOuld love to join.  But have to finish up a  Merkava IIID and build up a Mark IV for the western desert GB too.  But IF and I say IF I can finish the mark IV in a decent time.  I would like to build a M10 for this GB.

T-rex wrote:

A new groupe build, hum, i'll think ill join ar at least try to get in, Tamiya has release a new Hetzert that i want to build, can I join?

Yes you may. Glad to have a Hetzer too!

"Jagd" translates to hunt in German if this helps to clarify some confusion.

tigerman wrote:

Carves wrote:  STUG61 wrote: Eric I'll be doing the AFV club Achilles Mk.II.c. I'll save all the Stugs in the stash for later!! Hey I have a StuG in my stash too. Maybe we can wait until StuG GB come around. --- Ben   It's was done about 3 years ago. I lost the badge. I'd certainly go for another round. I have the Dragon G late with all my goods........waiting.

I'll be waiting too......I only have about ten of them hanging around here!!!

Oh man, a StuG group build just sounds soooooooo delicious!!! No no no, must not think of another group build, must complete current one and past due one...............but, its a StuG, oh the sweetness...............no, stop that , must stop thinking StuG...............

Jester75 wrote:

Oh man, a StuG group build just sounds soooooooo delicious!!! No no no, must not think of another group build, must complete current one and past due one...............but, its a StuG, oh the sweetness...............no, stop that , must stop thinking StuG...............

I hear you my friend.......I hear and feel your pain.

Jester75 wrote:

Oh man, a StuG group build just sounds soooooooo delicious!!! No no no, must not think of another group build, must complete current one and past due one...............but, its a StuG, oh the sweetness...............no, stop that , must stop thinking StuG...............

Steady man, and get some medical attention

You know. I just dont get it. How come a StuG, which it's original role was as an infrantry support can suddently become a hunter or even TD. Was it because of the 7.5 cm and 10.5 cm gun ?

---
Ben

Jester75 wrote:

Oh man, a StuG group build just sounds soooooooo delicious!!! No no no, must not think of another group build, must complete current one and past due one...............but, its a StuG, oh the sweetness...............no, stop that , must stop thinking StuG...............

We apologize for the above outburst. Those responsible for the outburst have been sacked. We now continue with the regularly scheduled group build.

No llamas were harmed in the above said sacking.

MarkDunck wrote:

If we are allowing a Firefly (a tank with a opened top traversable turret? Then why not these?)

Mark, I have to agree with the majority on this one, in that we're not specifically looking for tanks with opened top turrets. Also, this description doesn't fit the Firefly, as the Firefly was a Sherman conversion with a Brit AT gun, but it wasn't open on top.

tigerman wrote:

dupes wrote: I think we also need to consider that while lots of vehicles had the capabilities to destroy tanks, that is NOT what they were made for. Not many 251/22's or 234/4's were sent out on "hunting" missions to knock out Shermans, as far as I know. Just my , of course. I think that sums it up best. I mean this will be become so broad if we don't define it. I have some reservations about the Firefly too. It fits the definition of an MBT better than TD. This would be a good settlement for Roy Chow help define.

Well sir, I eagerly await your ruling on the Firefly.

Rooted around in the stash last night to see what I had available (I love this part of GB's!), came up with quite a few. Heh.

USSR - Zvezda ISU-152
GB - DML Firefly Vc, AFV Achilles
US - Academy M10 Duckbill, AFV M-18 Hellcat
Germany - Tamiya StuGIIIG, Marder III, Marder IIIM, Hetzer. DML Marder II, Jagdpanzer IV A-0, JagdTiger.

Will probably hold off on deciding, see what everyone else goes with and try to fill in some gaps if I can...although I'm about 100% on that Zvezda ISU-152.