Tamiya 1/35 Char B1 bis *WIP*

Congrats Scott!  Your win was well deserved! 

I really like this AFV and your approach was excellent!

Fast Heinz wrote:

Congrats on the first place. I remember this one and also recall that i commented that the finish was overdone for my personal taste or something like that. Shows how much i know. Well done

Ya, at the time I was a little discouraged but decided to listen to your critique and spent a good part of Friday night toning down some of the weathering by brushing just plain turpenoid over and over the entire tank, especially on the hull sides, gently washing some of the pigments off to make the underlying camo stand out more.  Your advice has paid off and got me my first "1st Place"! 

Hey Sxott,

Congratualtions on the First Place. Awesome job on the Char.

Congrats on the first place. I remember this one and also recall that i commented that the finish was overdone for my personal taste or something like that. Shows how much i know.

Well done 

Scott - HOLY EXCREMENT.....we have not seen you for a while.....hope all is well.

Congrats on the 1st place....hope to see many more here!!!

Rounds Complete!!

No idea how I missed this one!

Excelent build and congrats on 1st place!

    Hey Scott I remember this one, a superb job and well deserving of its 1^st award.                                            

              Congrats!

Thanks again for the interest and feedback gentlement, I really appreciate it. 

I entered "Bourrasque" in the 2009 IPMS Reno High Rollers annual model contest.  There was some stiff competition this year and I was very pleasantly surprised when it took 1st place! 

I like the effect that you achived bish.  I love using the MIG pigments and found the nightvision DVD a great help in the use of them.

Once again great work on you Char.

Hey Scott, I like it. I enjoyed your take on the the Migs stuff. I'm looking to drop a dime on the stuff for a build I'm doing, I've never used them either.

One thing I'd like to note, your reference photos and the open hatch. The Unit number on the side is quite visible, more visible that what you have on your model. Perhaps the buildup is overstated in the black and white photo? I'm not sayin' I'm just sayin'. I think you did a great job on it and really enjoyed reading this thread.

Ok, I'll get into some of this dirty talk.

Scott, I commend you on taking bold steps with the weathering, it takes nerve and vision to do what you are doing. 

I''m going to go out on a limb (boy, this is a first for me, aye?) and suggest that if you were to stop now you would be stopping before the miracles happen.  I see many very good models that seem to have only half of the idea expressed.  I believe that you are at that point...almost there!

I'm not suggesting slathering on another 20 layers of pigments, but I do believe that you are on the brink of some very exciting results if only you finish, or refine your thoughts.  I see your next step as re-defining the details that you have lost from the pigments.  At the moment the surfaces have lost their details and features.  I would suggest breaking out the artist oils and do some very selective pin washes around some of the bolt details and panel lines.  Use a dark(ish) earth color for this - I'm partial to Raw Umber. 

 Those darker streaks that you are contiplating could be achieved by these same washes.  Start at the top, slowly.  Let the paints/thinners do their thing and darken the base pigments - allow them to dry as this is the only way to really detemine the effect. (wet pigments will alway look dark and, well....wet!)  Repeat until you have what you are looking for.  The final weather with pigments and oils cannot be rushed...you really need to let things settle and dry to get a realistic assesment of where you are at and what needs to be done.

Fast Heinz has a point about loosing some of the base colors...some of that can be regained by brushing off certain areas allowing more glimpes to what is underneath.  I realize that you are working off the photo, but keep in mind that even a light dusting of earth taken on a black & white photo will obscure the colors...it's the nature of the photographs and it makes it very tough to interpret.

Great projects provoke great discussions....

Take care,

Rick 

Oh man that stinks. (not the tank but the stressful stuff) I think that once the change uncertainty and such pass things will probably get worse before they get better though. But I'll lie to ya if it makes you feel any better. Lots of us in that same boat right now I am afraid. Galveston Countys biggest employer the UTMB Hospital is cutting like 3500 jobs because of mismanagement and the hurricane damage. Businesses here are sucking wind trying to rebuild and repair during this slump. Really bad because Houston industry is usually pretty resilant. Oh well all we can do is what we can.

As far as your French tank 2 points of view clash. What looks right and what it actually looked like. You chose to be as genuine as you can make it. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see. As long as it just isn't coffee stains on the photo.  Seriously I hate trying to interpret black and white photos as they can mislead ya. But it's all we got in a lot of cases! That is another greatness of this hobby! To see how each other see things.

Good luck with the work stuff! Goes for all of us!

Thanks for all the input and suggestions gentlemen, much appreciated.

Again    I am trying to model Bourrasque as it appears in the two photos below taken shortly after it was abandoned by it's crew due to lack of fuel.  

Can anyone makeout the camo on the flanks?  I can't... it's completely covered with dirt and mud.  Look at period photos of the Char B1 bis in combat, almost without exception photos of the Char B1 bis in Combat show one thing in common.... dirt, oil and mud covered flanks in vertical streaks formed by it running down the sides.   Look at how the tracks wrap around the entire outside of those big, slab sided flanks.  Mud, oil, water, goo, whatever, drips, plops and runs constantly down the sides from those filthy dinosaur tracks that go over the top of the flanks.    With the exception of the open hatches, I am trying to make mine look similar to the way Bourrasque appears in these photos...... not an "idealized" verson or an artistic "most pleasing to the eye" look of Bourrasque.  I am not trying to model it as it would have appeared on the parade ground.  I am trying to replicate what I see in the actual photos.  Notice, you can't make out any of the camo patterns or colors on the flanks, only on the upper hull and turret. 

(I hope the above doesn't come across as testy in any way, it's been a rough 2 days at the office..... 300 people in the Reno facility alone were let go yesterday and today.  It's been very stressful and thankfully I am still here and I didn't have to let any of my staff go.  )

Scott, I have to say that I agree about the aesthetics of the kit before the deluge of pastels. I think that you went a little overboard with the pastels.

Did you miss my post on page one? I really think that the problem with your pastel application was because you went for an overall coating of powders, rather than the "3-dimensional" application which I had suggested. I think that you could have kept much of the base paint visible and unobscured if you had used white glue drips coated in powders to simulate the "dripping" mud.

It still might be posssible to clean up some of that powder on the sides, and then add white glue "lines" down the side which you could then coat with powders while still tacky--that would give you 3-D drips of mud like it looks in the photos there.

It might be worth a shot? Can you scrub off some of that all-over powder coat on the sides?

Thanks everyone for the comments and the interest, I really appreciate it.  It's so much more fun when this hobby isn't a solo project. 

I'm still debating what to do about the chains.  My original intention was to get more of the pigments etc on them, but due to the nature of the metal I'm not getting good coverage.  I'm considering some of the ideas mentioned earlier such as dipping them in coke or something. 

Do any of you have experience with "Blacken-It"?  I have some that I was going to use on some Friulmodel tracks on another build.  Would that work on these chains?

Fast Heinz wrote:

Yes, i have to concede that if the intention is to emulate the photo, then the degree of weathering is not overstated at all and you've done a fine job all round. My comment was around the "look" of the model. I thought (and still do) that it looked more visually pleasing at the earlier stage when the camo was visible through the dirt/dust buildup. Its just a personal taste thing i guess. Cheers

I agree with you 100%, it did look more asthetically pleasing before all the dirt. 

I kinda wish I could have two of these built, one filthy and one just for the beauty of the tank.  The Char B1 bis has a beauty all it's own and each one of them was fairly unique in its own right.  This Tamiya kit is really nice and I would love to build another.   

Yes, i have to concede that if the intention is to emulate the photo, then the degree of weathering is not overstated at all and you've done a fine job all round. My comment was around the "look" of the model. I thought (and still do) that it looked more visually pleasing at the earlier stage when the camo was visible through the dirt/dust buildup.

Its just a personal taste thing i guess.

Cheers

 Hello espins1,Congratulations on taking a step outside the comfort zone and expanding on your skills, and sharing the results. IMO the weathering on the Char is not overstated and quite accurate in regards to the reference pics you've posted. The pics show the camo on the large slab sides of the Char to be obscurred and barely visible, while the camo on the upper structures are easily discernable, just as the model portrays. Nice job interpreting the photos and aritistically rendering the weathering to achieve realistic results. The only thing missing are the dark streaks. IMHO the chain is a bit bright and tends to distract from the overall picture, but that's just my opinion.

 Thanks again for posting,

 Best Regards,

 Mobious

Scott:  Venturing out of the "comfort zone" can be tough; but for me it keeps the hobby interesting and challenging.  The weathering may cover up some exhaustive time and effort, but it can be worth it too...you have progess pic's if ever needed.  You learn more each time you try another skill and you add it to your arsenal. 

She's a real beauty Scott, the massiveness REALLY comes through!  All the detail and weathering is superb!...and I LOVE those chains...I'll have to scroll back to see any info on how you did those. (I have a M26 in the stash)  I'd add those dark streaks, and don't be stingy with them, add a bunch...the contrast will be STRIKING...GO FOR IT!!!

Thanks guys.  I must admit I was a bit nervous venturing outside of my comfort zone.  I usually build more idealized versions of my tanks, intact, with no damage and minimal weathering.  I almost stopped before the pigments and was ready to finish it up right then and there, but I really wanted to learn how to use pigments to take my modeling to the next level.

I've always been fascinated with the filthy look of the Char B1 bis in wartime photos.  I guess it boiled down to either the artistic (again, idealized view of the tank) or the realistic (what it looked like at the time of its final engagement).  Tough decision to make, but very enjoyable!  I may someday build another one with a more perfect appearance for aesthetic reasons to park next to my idealized Das Reich Tiger, Grossdeutschland Panther etc. 

I really wanted to try to replicate that weathered look somehow, both as a skill building exercise and just to see if I could do it.  Granted, I'm still a novice with pigments but man, talk about a fun learning exercise!    The downside to wanting to replicate this look, as Fast Heinz mentioned, is that the camo is almost completely undiscernable on the flanks.  (Thanks for making that point Fast Heinz, I was wondering when someone would bring that topic up.  I had an internal debate about that very same thing my friend.) If you look at the photos I used for inspiration you'll see that the camo is even less discernable than it is on my build so the argument could be made that it needs even more!    I'm still debating on whether or not to add a few darker streaks of simulated mud as you can see in the photos.  The gears are turning..... 

I have stayed away from using Future over my camo jobs for the last few builds after seeing some of Karl's (the Doog!) work and now prefer not to gloss coat my builds, even for decaling.  It's mostly a matter of personal preference.  I don't necessarily care for the over exaggerated look of pin washes over a gloss coat.  Without the gloss coat I like how the washes still emphasize detail but also leave a bit of grubbiness behind on the flat surfaces, which in my opinion is a bit more realistic if that is the look you're trying to achieve.

I'm home sick again with this stupid cold, so I'm taking a break from the workbench for a day or two.  Thanks again for the comments and interest gentlemen, I appreciate it!   :)