Trumpeter to release 'Blackwater' figs

HeavyArty wrote:

You can feel how you like, but it is true,  if you haven't been there, you don't know.  Sorry, thats just the way it is.

Coom-by-ya ... .... coom-by-ya ....

Well, you are both right .... Chris, yes, there are people like that in every line of work. Case in point ... I took to the pool the other day and had a 16 yr old lifeguard treat me like I was a drowning victim. (I'd worked around pools for about 8 yrs back in school and had been on a swim team since my coach could make me swim straight.) But this kid thought he was all that. However, Gino is also right ... Your friend, while I don't know him/ her, is ignorant if he will only fire an M4 if its made pure gold. Gino speaks of experience and experience is the key word here. If you haven't been in the military, not INvolved (contractors, family, friend of, etc) then you can't know ... b/c you don't have the experience. Same as if you are/ were in the military and you haven't been to Ranger school, or SF Selection .... nothing wrong w/ you, but you just don't know (but PLENTY of people still talk WAY too much like they do know something).

Me personally .... while I don't know anything about your friend, I think that it says something about him that he would dismiss the M4 as a valuable weapon after 1 or 2 poor experiences and a "weapons briefing" on wikipedia. Over the years and through thousands of 5.56 rnds, I've had my fair share of misfires w/ the M16/ M4 .... but then again, thats why the military teaches you SPORTS.

Lastly .... as there is well over 6 billion people on this earth today, there could be that many opinions in this particular matter. At the end of the day, if you find that you have a sore crouch b/c this subject .... you need to get out more! (I recommend yoga. .... Go ahead. Make fun ... but while you're laughing .... whos the one getting their stretch on w/ good lookin chicks in hot pants!?!)

yeah there's alot of truth to that scott. i know artillery as being a surveyor...doesnt mean i know how to fire a cannon!! i've only put thousands of rounds down range with the m-16a1 & a2./m-60/m203. i've never had one single misfire!! never had ANY issues with my weapon. i cleaned it and used it and cleaned it some more!

with that said, i think ya finally got what i've been trying to say forever, with so many things that are truely "wrong" with the world today...does something as trivial as this really make a difference???? ok, im doing what i said i wouldnt and that's get involved...i said my peace, now i'll leave it alone!

No, it doesn't make a difference; this has nothing to do with the M4 or my friend. While I'm sure that 16 year old lifeguard was a jerk, I don't know, I don't think Scott ripped him a new one and then went on to explain to him that he's been around pools his whole life.

A simple misunderstanding of a subject is one thing, but to then take that, call someone uninformed and treat their opinion is a complete over reaction, and it's not the first time it's happened.

Clearly I'm not uninformed if I can even comprehend the discussion were having. I'm not looking for acceptance into a military guild or brother hood, I was just talking about a weapon as I've known it. If it's going to save your life, why not treat it right and wish to have the best available product? I just find it interesting that I can have an opinion right up until the point at which it's wrong or inaccurate. Then all of a sudden I don't know anything because I've never got up and off a couch or in front of a computer.

And for the record, calvin brought up Wikipedia, I just looked at the page in question. My friend's been shooting competitions since he was in middle school. He doesn't base his opinions on anything other than his experiences. And sorry for the spelling, clearly not my strong point.

Sorry for making a huge stink out of nothing.

chris, you are absolutely right in that you are not uninformed!! what gino is saying (if i got it right) is that you can watch a show on the military channel about the m-16 and know all there is to know based on what they've told you...but until you actually fire the weapon..."ya dont really know"!! dont feel bad in the long run chris...i too get alot of it from people. so, i generally shut my mouth let them have their say and then laugh to myself because i know the "truth"! (not that your wrong gino...not implying you when i say this, it's only a "broad" generalization)! trust me, i know how ya feel and your points are just as valid as anyone's here! even though i make fun of ya i respect the fact that you know alot of what your saying...as long winded as it often is! anyway, everyone here would like to think they know everything about the military, about german this, iraq that, japan this...it's all crap chris...havent ya learned anything my friend. knowing things dont make you an expert and an expert is only that based upon the knowledge they've received through life experience. (except those that only think they are in their minds). reading a book will only make you knowledgable on what you've read!! anyway, i've blathered on long enough...take it for what you will and in the long run...know in your mind that the knowledge you've obtained is perfectly legitimate and real!

Scott and Camo are right on it.  You can read all the books in the world, watch all the TV shows you want, look at umpteen million web sites, etc., but until you actually do something, you don't have the experience with it.  Book knowledge is one thing, but it takes actual experience to be intimately familiar with something and have a definitive opinion. 

Its great that your buddy has been competition shooting for years.  Hopefully that will make him a good marksman in the Army.  I also agree wholeheartedly with Scott about your buddy discounting the M4 because he doesn't think it is super machined for competition shooting, and hence not a dependable weapon.  Combat shooting is very different than shooting in competition though.  That is why I don't give it much credence. 

I may come across a little crass in my demeanor at times, but that is how I am.  I don't mince words.  In my line of work, it isn't good to do so.  I just tell it like it is. 

Isn't it funny how a discussion can turn like this! For a moment i though i was reading militaryphots.com!

As for the M4, seen one, handled it, never got to shoot it. Shot M16, and F88, but give me an SLR anyday! nothing says die like 7.62mm!

Don't worry about coming off the way you do sometimes there Gino, I know you're a straight shooter and that's one of the things I respect about you. Sometimes it catches me off guard though, I get too used to FSMs forums as I'm not a member of militaryphotos or armorama- I do know (from what I've heard) that this is one of the more PC, G rated forums out there. Thanks camo for at least understanding where I'm coming from. I know no one knows everything, and I don't claim to, but I can understand how lack of real life experience can be taken as uninformed. I took "uninformed" a little too far.

Blackwater figures. Hmmm. Nisor Square diorama?

hey gino, ive heard the m4s barrel would heat up alot if it was constantly fired? but anyway the m4 is a good weapon, the only complain ive heard about the m16 was in concord publishings OIF 1, the marines said it was too unwieldy for urban combat, and they wanted the m4 to replace it. would the reason why the m16 had problems in vietnam be the humidity and or climate? ive read about the m51 reising SMG used in WWII rust and jam in the PTO due do the climate.the m16 is clearly more accurate than the ak-47,is the m416 is it based on the m4 carbine family? ive read it could be submerged in water and fired correctly when brought back up.

Calvin,

All guns will issues with barrels overheating if fired too fast.  That is why we are trained to fire automatic MGs in 5-7 round bursts.  This keeps the barrel from overheating and possibly causing jams.  Yes, the M16 is a little long for urban fighting.  That is the reason the Army is moving to almost all m4s, the USMC is getting them as well.  The reason the M16 had problems in Vietnam was due to the misconception that you didn't need to clean it and poor powder in the rounds.  As we discussed above, the DoD didn't even issue cleaning kits initially.  Once these issues were identified and corrected, there were few issues with them.  The 416 is just an improved M4.  It uses the same lower receiver and replaces the upper receiver (breach, gas charging system, and barrel) with a new, closer machined piece that looks exactly the same as any other M4.  An M16/M4 will also fire if submerged in water.  Water is not a big issue since it just runs out of the gun when brought back up.

oh no wonder, now i know gino, i learn something new everyday. guess ive been watching to much war movies with crazy lunatics spraying  their ak all over the place lol

There was only ONE genuine Mattel M-16 used in Ft Bragg...  John Wayne smashed it against a tree in The Green Berets...

Hans von Hammer wrote:

There was only ONE genuine Mattel M-16 used in Ft Bragg...  John Wayne smashed it against a tree in The Green Berets...