Some thoughts on censorship.

Pornstar???  I laughed until I stopped...

When I first registered on this forum I had a username of 'NaziDriver', I used this name 'cos it was the name of a very early track by 'Soundgarden' the grungerock band, one of my fave bands.

It didn't take long before I got told to change it.

All in all, i'm totally against Censorship and Political Correctness and pussyfootin' and tiptoein' around people. I hate it all with a vengeance! This doesn't mean to say that I don't have any manners though, 'cos I do.

Yes sir, you do. At least, you've always been polite to me.

A lot of Soundgarden song titles might have caused you trouble. Loud Love, Get on the Snake, Burden in my Hand...

Cosmic J wrote:

Cosmic J for instance. Wasn't "J" a slang term for a marijuana cigarette? He's banned. TacoBuff. Isn't buff a synonym for rub? Does this mean he likes to "Rub Tacos"? Banned. Mucker. Sounds suspiciously like a contraction of one of Carlin's 7 dirty words. Banned. FingersEddie. Oh, yeah, that just sounds dirty. Banned. Manstein's revenge. Sounds like something to do w/ the Nazis, and revenge implies violence. No sexual overtones or drug references though, he can stay. HeavyArtie. Phallic avatar. Banned. Hans von Hammer. Banned for having a pornstar name. Douglas1. Naked baby avatar. Banned. Tankluver. Banned for fetishism. Mccfisto. Totally. Banned. Ps1scw. Saucy avatar. Banned. Dupes. Avatar looks French. You can stay, as long as you call them "Freedom Fries". bultenibo. I don't know what that is, but it sounds like a body part. Banned. Stikpusher. BANNEDBANNEDBANNEDBANNED!!!!11! Maximus DukusErectus. WTF?!? Ok, forget I even brought it up...

LOL! Thanks J. That made my day. Obviously we've been dealing with the worst of the trolls lately but we don't ban usernames on a whim. All of the Forum rules and guidelines are designed to make the site as accessible and friendly as possible for modelers of all stripes and ages.

Mason and Jagdpanther: We've never banned the swastika, Confederate battle flag, Red Star, the thing that sybolized Prince when he was "the artist formerly known as Prince," or any other symbol, when used as part of a model or diorama. There are parts of Europe where it is illegal to display the Nazi swastika or sell it's likeness. This is the reason models made or sold in Europe don't have the swastika in the kits or on the boxtops. Or, in some cases, have the symbol in multiple parts on the sheet.

Cheers,

Yer Welcome.

FingersEddie wrote:

All in all, i'm totally against Censorship and Political Correctness and pussyfootin' and tiptoein' around people. I hate it all with a vengeance! This doesn't mean to say that I don't have any manners though, 'cos I do.

Wow, this is one of those topics....  the ol' slippery slope...  uh oh, I said slippery... does that get me banned...?

I have a whole bunch of thoughts on this topic, which I actually got to thinkin' about the other day when I saw MRs most recent female figure (which I see has been since removed) and the hot words that were flying by some of the people who commented on it.

I think there is a fine edge that the FSM moderators have to walk.  While I agree in principle with the quote above, I do think there is a difference between 'censorship' and 'political correctness' versus 'appropriateness'.  I think as moderators of a public forum that caters to a wide audience from around the world, FSM has to try to walk that fine edge between what is censorship and what is appropriate.  For example, a few months ago in 'Odds and Ends' (I think) there was a thread about the publics perception of people in the military.  Soon the thread branched off into debates about the rightness or wrongness of the war in Iraq and the competency of the President and his cabinet.  A couple of warnings (some quite stern) were posted by the moderators to warn us to keep it calm, as tempers were beginning to rise, and to remember to avoid political rants.  The thing was, I thought the thread then did tone it down quite a bit, so I was a little surprised to open it up one day and see it locked.  My first reaction was that this was a little arbitrary and heavy-handed by the FSM moderators.  Then I got to thinking about it, and I guess I decided that, while I disagreed with their decision to lock it, I can definately understand why they would - it was a politically volitile topic, tempers had boiled over several times and were sure to again.  So, the fact that they locked it did not seem quite as arbitrary when I gave it some time and consideration.  I still disagreed with their decision, but it is easy for me to disagree, because I am just a participant in the forum.  I only have to think (in general terms) about myself - the moderators have to think about the entire community.

In the context of 'fingerseddies' quote above, I think about this in another context.  Like I said, there a few modelers here who post some images that some may consider borderline for appropriateness - again, I reference MRs recent figure.  To be honest, I have no problem with the more risque figures, I like MRs work, but I understand the decision process, considering that there are certainly minors and women and people of a different opinion then my own.  Consdier an extreme example: a while back (year or two maybe) there was an art show (somewhere - NY maybe?) featuring Christian imagery (including, I believe, images of Christ on the Cross) submerged in fecal material and/or urine.  Now, if I was of the mind set and the ability that I thought, "WOW! That would make a great DIO..."  and I cranked it out and posted it on FSM, would that really be appropriate?  Again, it is an extreme example, and most of the ones the mods deal with day in and day out are not nearly so clearcut, residing in the grey areas between extremes, as most things do.  But, I think it illustrates my point - yeah, in principle I may oppose 'censorship' but in reality I can accept that some things are appropriate and some things are not.  The moderators have to decide what those things are and where they lie on the spectrum of appropriateness.  I don't always agree with them, but I recognize the challenges they face so I tend to support the decisions they make, even if I myself might not have made that decision personally.

Just my little ...  Sorry to be so long winded...

I've never come across the swastika symbol bein' banned in kits in my country, although in Germany they are heavily censored as well as 'Horror' movies and any other movie that contains a moderate amount of violence. I have a friend who lives there and is constantly complainin' about the censorship laws 'cos they are so extreme, and rightly so.

What I don't like is that they banned the use of tobacco advertisin' decals in 1/24 car kits as well as on the real thing, this sucks and stinks to me. Its not worth buildin' the Jaguar XJ10 Le Mans car now...although there are aftermarket companies supplyin' the proper 'Silk Cut' cigarette logos for it. So what was the point of all that, I say!?  

Now that Charlton Heston is 10 foot under maybe US lobby groups should start to ban the use of guns, huh?! Or are there too many rabbits?!

Censorship is an interesting thing. Government censorship is despicable, while protecting your children is not. It all has to be taken in context. FSM has a duty to keep a firm hand on what is said, how it's said and what is portrayed on their forums. This is to protect younger members from "adult" influences, and also to protect their reputation. I find this site is just loose enough that I can easily stay within the parameters of socially responsible behaviour, and just restrictive enough to keep out obnoxious personalities. 

Manny's figures are becoming legendary, and occassionally push beyond the envelope of "acceptable" imagry. However, he doesn't post them in such a way as to immediately tick off Aaron or Matt.

All in all, I find the restrictions here to be not censorship in the common definition, but as social rules of behaviour for their guests, for guests are what we are. Freedom of Speech is not protected here, as this is a forum owned and operated by Kalmbach. The Charter of Rights and the Constitution do not forbid private citizens and corporations from administering their own brand of censorship, only censorship via government decree. I agree with FingersEddie and join him in hating censorship and political correctness, but he is correct in pointing out that it doesn't preclude the use of manners.

I post using a very simple rule. I post as if my Mother was going to read it!

I can't stand the term "political correctness." It's usually used by people who want to be freed to use racial slurs and other hateful epithets, who want to believe language is not hurtful, that the choice of certain symbols and signs do not have weight or meaning. If people treated each other respectfully and politely, there would be  no cries for "political correctness."

It also amazes me that folks like John Ashcroft, who covered the statue of Justice to hide an exposed breast, or the FCC and the others who went balistic over Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" think seeing either of these will currupt youth bring down the fall of civilization. It's people like this who insist on depicting Michaelagelo's David with a magic fig leaf.

For the most part, our European friends have a much healthier attitude towards the human body.

I loved the original post! :D

There's some good discussion following that first post too. 

I'll only add that I'd rather see naked people coming my direction than tanks or warplanes. :) As modelers, the preponderance of what we build is related to war and all the horrible things that come with war. We build because war-related equipment is, frankly, pretty cool (for a lot of reasons) and because we are enthralled by the stories related to the real people/vehicles/planes/ships that we're modelling. There are as many reasons to model as there are people.

I think it is hypocritical to model war planes or paint a figure of General Patton, yet get upset with figures of a naked person. I do draw the line at figures showing explicit sex, but I personally don't find simple nudity objectionable. 

Having said (typed) all that, I have no trouble at all with how FSM runs this board. It's their board and their rules, and I think they're fair and reasonable. 

Would I do thinkgs a little differently? Sure. Do I want to go through the trouble? Absolutely not!

Regards, 

ajlafleche wrote:

For the most part, our European friends have a much healthier attitude towards the human body.

Yep we do, nudity is a beautiful thing. 

One time, over on the Timelines forum, there was an image of a PiliPil female bust shown as a new addition to their range, this took place last year. The very next day the nipples of it were blacked out! People wondered and asked why, and to cut a long story short the members were told that it was feared that anyone viewin' these images via a computer at work would be caught, and may have to suffer bein' called a 'pervert' by their work colleagues.

One person then went on to give an example of a person in the US bein' taken advantage of in a similar situation whereby a woman accused this person of sexual harrassment usin' his computer and what he was viewin' on it as an indictment. 

I couldn't believe it, I laughed so much I nearly *hat myself. I don't post on there now. I mean, if you were ever caught in an absurd situation like this there has to be some sense of humour or rationale involved hasn't there!? Goddamnit!

Anyone can view the same images over on PiliPili's website or anywhere else for that matter, jus' goes to show how pathetic the forum's stand on nudity was in this case!

hmm, rubbing tacos... never crossed my mind.  I prefer to eat them... wait, i guess that'll get me banned too.

Anywho, Being politically correct is really a waste of time.  Now, I'm all for being polite and having manners, but if you're constantly correct, you might as well have white noise coming out of your mouth.  That's one reason politics is so boring, lots of empty promises, and the same four or five lines spewed out by every candidate.

I'm the editor of my school newspaper's opinion pages.  It's my job to say which opinions are public, and which are private.  Talk about sexually explicit acts as well as positively portraying drugs are NOT COOL.  Other than that, I tell my writers to 'swear tastefully'.

a little off topic, sorry.  but thanks for reading.

Cosmic J wrote:

Jagdpanther302. Banned for posting the words "Fart", "Butt" and "Crappily".

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You made my day, again!

bbrowniii:

Wow, this is one of those topics....  the ol' slippery slope...  uh oh, I said slippery... does that get me banned...?

'Slippery' is borderline, but ok. 'bbrowniii' however, sounds like 'Brown Eye', which is a euphemism. Banned.

Hans von Hammer (aka Hugh G. Rection or Chad Dangle):

My wife and I both fly on-line with with a virtual squadron in Combat Flight Simulator 2.  We also use the same call-signs we have in that as screen names in the forums... Mine's "Wimpy" because my middle name is Wellington (Thanks, mom)... Hers is "Mounds"...  Why? Simple. According to her, "Almond Joy has nuts, Mounds don't"...

Wife is banned too.

Lufbery:

I loved the original post! :D

Thank you sir. You're very kind. 

"I'd rather see naked people", "naked person", "explicit sex", "I personally don't find simple nudity objectionable."

Banned.

LOFLMAO! (Banned)

I s'pose my username would be banned too ... despite it's "other" meaning.

Josh

FingersEddie:

Yep we do, nudity is a beautiful thing.  One time, over on the Timelines forum, there was an image of a PiliPil female bust shown as a new addition to their range, this took place last year. The very next day the nipples of it were blacked out! People wondered and asked why, and to cut a long story short the members were told that it was feared that anyone viewin' these images via a computer at work would be caught, and may have to suffer bein' called a 'pervert' by their work colleagues. One person then went on to give an example of a person in the US bein' taken advantage of in a similar situation whereby a woman accused this person of sexual harrassment usin' his computer and what he was viewin' on it as an indictment.  I couldn't believe it, I laughed so much I nearly *hat myself. I don't post on there now. I mean, if you were ever caught in an absurd situation like this there has to be some sense of humour or rationale involved hasn't there!? Goddamnit! Anyone can view the same images over on PiliPili's website or anywhere else for that matter, jus' goes to show how pathetic the forum's stand on nudity was in this case!

Aaaaarrrggghhhh!!!11!

I give up. You guys win.

  I've always related more to the Cheshire Cat (see my avatar), but my wife somtimes calls me the 'Mock' Turtle...