Enterprise the series.

wipw

Member since
January 2003
From: Utah - USA

Posted by wipw on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 9:04 PM

QUOTE: From what I gathered about the Borg episode. They were "survivors" from the time travel sphere near the beginning of the First Contact movie. The sphere was destroyed after traveling back to the "past".

I'd buy that except, how come Kirk and crew and the first however many years of TNG didn't know about the Borg? Why did Q make such a big deal about introducing them to eachother earlier than they should have been? I think they just messed up!

I guess I can buy the cosmetically altered Klingons, too. But it still seems like a "work around" to me!!

Good thing this stuff is only fantasy!

Bill ==========================================================

DML M4A2 Red Army ==========================================================

========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 9:43 PM

I must say that despite the whole timeline stuff the Borg episode of Enterprise was one of the better ones. And it was always nice to see the Andorians, one of my favorite races. Now the Ferengi episode was a joke.

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Mikeym_us

Member since
March 2004
From: Kincheloe Michigan

Posted by Mikeym_us on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:15 PM

oh by the way the borg were encountered by Admiral kirk when he went to stop V'GER from destroying the Earth remember the scene when Spock talks about seeing a planet inhabited by cybernetic creatures they were the Borg this is explained more in William (Kirk) Shatners books that take place after Generations where Jim Kirk is brought back to life yet again.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15 http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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upnorth

Member since
December 2002
From: Canada / Czech Republic

Posted by upnorth on Thursday, April 15, 2004 10:17 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by StevenQ

I must say that despite the whole timeline stuff the Borg episode of Enterprise was one of the better ones. And it was always nice to see the Andorians, one of my favorite races. Now the Ferengi episode was a joke.

If I recall correctly, toward the end of the DS9 series run (when I was only watching it sporadically) there was some storyline or subplot about a clandestine branch of Starfleet that officially didn't exist, but had been in existence since the very foundation of Starfleet. This could go a long way in explaining no reference to the Borg until Q brought them into the picture. Why shouldn't Starfleet have had its own special "Area 51" for keeping alien knick knacks a secret?

I also am glad to see the Andorians playing a major role in the new series, as they were one of the Federation's founding races, its also good to see that however they came to be allied with the Humans and Vulcans, it wasn't easy at first. Lots of mistrust to overcome.

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Mikeym_us

Member since
March 2004
From: Kincheloe Michigan

Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, April 15, 2004 10:46 AM

you talking about Starfleet Section 31 if you remember they used Biological warfare to try to wipe out the Founders which i find to be a barbaric way to fight a war but this went on before the Federation Dominion war.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15 http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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upnorth

Member since
December 2002
From: Canada / Czech Republic

Posted by upnorth on Thursday, April 15, 2004 8:03 PM

Yes, I seem to recall that about Section 31, but if they have been around as long as Starfleet itself, then certainly other things occupied their secretive intrests before the Founders or Dominion were even heard of by the Federation. So at that, its totally plausible to put them in a position of hiding away the Borg bits and pieces and erasing any evidence of the borg at all from Starfleet records. That would certainly be a good way to keep the Borg out of the story line until Q brought Picard and company toe to toe with them.

Anyway, I hope the Enterprise series gets back to a good pace and off this Xindi kick soon, I'm getting to the point where I almost don't care if I see the show or not. I can think of one or two other Sci-Fi series that had some good potential that got ruined by writing teams that had no business writing for Sci-Fi. I'd hate to see Enterprise go that way. TNG and Voyager rode off into the Sci-Fi sunset in respectable style, DS9 limped its way off the air as a cliched soap opera in space. I'd hope only one Star Trek series would have the indignity of going off the air in DS9 fashion.

Enterprise has a good cast, but the production crew has gotten too comfortable in their positions and obviously are thinking they can throw anything at Star Trek fans and get it eaten up. Berman and Bragga gotta go, that would be a good first step.

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midnightprowler

Member since
February 2003
From: East Bethel, MN

Posted by midnightprowler on Friday, April 16, 2004 4:50 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw

Good thing this stuff is only fantasy!

You mean to tell me Star Trek isn't real!!??
Lee

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

Co. A, 682 Engineers, Ltchfield, MN, 1980-1986

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Ask me about Speedway Decals

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 16, 2004 12:47 PM

if the guy helping Archer is from the 31st century,fighting a war that shouldn't have been,then when Enterprise beats the Xindii ,the the guy from thr future can go back in time and remove all evidence,and T'pol and Trip can wake up in a shower together! Sorry i must go and lay down after THAT thought.

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Mikeym_us

Member since
March 2004
From: Kincheloe Michigan

Posted by Mikeym_us on Friday, April 16, 2004 5:00 PM

actually the real bad guys are the people who created the deltic expanse they are the ones who told the Xindi that Earth wipes them out in the future yeah and i hope Trip has a romantic involvement with T'pol i mean heck i wouldnt mind a romantic involvement with her :P

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15 http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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cassibill

Member since
February 2003
From: Indiana, USA

Posted by cassibill on Friday, April 16, 2004 5:18 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mikeym_us

actually the real bad guys are the people who created the deltic expanse they are the ones who told the Xindi that Earth wipes them out in the future yeah and i hope Trip has a romantic involvement with T'pol i mean heck i wouldnt mind a romantic involvement with her :P

Have you seen the trailer for next week?? I wonder what T'Pol's little problem that she tells Phlox is: Pon Farr, some odd Vucan disease, or (my vote) Charles Tucker IV.

cdw My life flashes before my eyes and it mostly my life flashing before my eyes!!! Big Smile The 1/144 scale census and message board: http://144scalelist.freewebpage.org/index.html

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cassibill

Member since
February 2003
From: Indiana, USA

Posted by cassibill on Friday, April 16, 2004 5:19 PM

I wonder it the Klingon forehead ridges areexplained in any of the books. I'll have to look.

cdw My life flashes before my eyes and it mostly my life flashing before my eyes!!! Big Smile The 1/144 scale census and message board: http://144scalelist.freewebpage.org/index.html

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, April 17, 2004 6:52 AM

I agree with most on the idea that the Xindi story line is getting a little drawn out and I believe the original story line (future guy), which still is in play, should be closed out. Let's get another ship out there and some more Star Fleet/Enterprise interaction. Disapprove [V]

Sending the 1 ship out to an unknown area of the galaxy to fight and destroy who knows what without backup or support is a little crazy especially for the military. I like Archer's character development, they are a little thin with T'Pol, Malcom and Trip and seemed to have written off Hoshi and Travis. The premise is good, the actors are right, (even the MACOs are good for a little juice), now the production team needs to tie it up.

Smile [:)]

Even after this said, I still will watch. I just love "Trek"

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 3:55 PM

personally i'm getting a bit bored with Enterprise,and i,as a lifelong fan,can't wait for this season to end.i can't beleive i just wrote that last line,but unless this series is given a kick up the arse quickly i can't see it being continued coz people r just gonna turn off!don't get me wrong i like Archer, T'pol even Trip but Phlox and the rest get on my nips.bring on the Andorrians

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:23 PM

Hey everyone, I just thought I would add my two cents in. I never really watched ST for the plots, but I am in love with the ships.. (a true modeler at heart I guess). So in that capacity I loved the last seasons of DS9, because of the armadas seen and great potential to model them. http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery8/rc_hancock.htm

Enterprise never grabbed me because I just could figure out how the ship designers had an Akira-style ship, then went to something much less modern looking (Constitution class, etc), then "reinvented" an old design hundreds of years later. And reinvented is pushing it, because they took the same ship, and just turned the nacelles so they faced down. Enterprise did throw a teaser out there when they showed some quick shots of the mysterious "Enterprise-J". Though I'll confess, that was the one episode I've actually watched. I have heard rumors of some new ST series being toyed with involving the fall of the Federation, but who knows. I'll just continue to give my paycheck to the people at Federation Models to build a 1/1400 fleet of my own.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:45 AM

I'm not going to get into the whole Enterprise debate. Not again. But as for the appearance of the Klingons -- as Ronald D. Moore says in the fifth season DVD set for DS9, the makeup changed. If it weren't for the "Trials and Tribble-ations" episode, we could pretend the Klingons always looked the way they do today. But there's no explanation I've ever heard for why they look different now that makes any real sense. Sure, they could have been surgically altered. But why? To what end? It just strains credibility to the breaking point. They weren't a different race of Klingons, because we saw Kang, Koloth and Kor on DS9 and they looked the same as all the other Klingons do today, and not as they did on TOS.

That's why Worf's remark about the difference in their appearance is not a "lame explanation" -- it isn't an explanation at all, nor was it intended to be. I thought it was brilliant. I just imagined all the other fans (and I did the same thing), watching that episode for the first time, sitting on the edge of their seats and thinking, "Now they're going to have to explain why the Klingons used to look different! Finally, the mystery will be solved once and for all!" And then getting Worf saying, essentially, "None of your business." Just brilliant! I laughed so hard I missed the next three minutes of the episode.

Qapla'

SSB

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Mikeym_us

Member since
March 2004
From: Kincheloe Michigan

Posted by Mikeym_us on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:00 PM

well the difference between the NX-01 and the Akira is 2 things #1 is the saucer the Akira has a somewhat eliptical shape and the Enterprise has a basic circular shape except for the cutout for the deflector array. #2 is the Nacell configuration the configuration on Enterprise NX-01 is that it is basically the same as on regular starfleet vessels the "upward V" configuration like what is seen on the TOS enterprise and the TNG Enterprise E but the Akira has a "Downward V" configuration

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15 http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:17 PM

Oh yeah! I totally agree they are indeed totally different ships (somewhat)

http://www.stguardian.to/fed/nx01/index.html
vs.
http://www.stguardian.to/fed/akira/index.html

I mean the difference are striking, but I felt a new ST series should include a totally new starship concept. i.e. Defiant, Voyager, and the various Enterprises. This ship seemed to me, too futuristic for a time prior to the Constitution class.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:23 PM

all the above mentioned reasons and the apparent sophistication of the viewing fans makes it almost impossible for this new series to totally satisfy even 50% of the audience.i frtunately am satisfied with the new technology.i 'll watch it just for chance of seeing a new starship nad possibly another sonic shower.

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traveller

Member since
February 2003
From: Towradgi, near the beach!

Posted by traveller on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:40 PM

OK, I have just looked through this whole debate, and I want to add my bit! First: Time Travel works for Dr Who. Second: as already mentioned, you cannot satisfy everyone, but in saying this, I have not seen the latest series with the Xindi, as it is not being screened here in Oz yet. When I do I will make up my mind. Thirdly: I agree that the story lines can be drawn out a bit. All I can say, I do like the show, and any loopholes should just be ignored. I imagine that doing a show like this with a long history behind it is difficult, so give them a chance!! If it does not work, well too bad. See you guys later, happy modelling!!! SoapBox [soapbox]

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philp

Member since
December 2002
From: USA

Posted by philp on Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:48 AM

I consider myself a Trekker (not a Trekkie) but mainly watch for the entertainment. Star Trek is Star Trek.. I will admit that most of my favorite Trek episodes (and movies) are those that have a little humor in them. My next favorite are when they are doing all the fighting (so much for diplomacy). I could never figure out why the old Akira class surfaced in the later series (must be old as it looks a little like the NX-01). I think they have handled the older looking technology pretty well without going too campy (even todays subs look newer than 1701). I will continue to watch the series as long as it lasts and leave any "historical" concerns to those that really care.
After all, it's just a show and modeling is just a hobby. Right?

Phil Peterson IPMS #8739 Join the Map http://www.frappr.com/finescalemodeler

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upnorth

Member since
December 2002
From: Canada / Czech Republic

Posted by upnorth on Thursday, April 22, 2004 5:17 PM

Last night, I watched a pretty decent episode of Enterprise.

The ship is battered up by a Xindi attack. While trying to make the extensive repairs, they encounter a ship of seemingly peaceful aliens. Eventually Archer leads a boarding party to steal the alien's warp coil to replace Enterprise's damaged one.

No, I don't like what he did, I think it was real low and dirty. Some of my favorite Star Trek episodes (regardless of series) are the ones that show Star Fleet with real human flaws, not the squeaky clean image of them that was so often seen in TNG. The image that says, "Well, we have all humanities flaws under control, lets go solve the problems of everyone else in the galaxy). Thats not to say that I didn't enjoy TNG, I just think that the darker side of humanity could have come through a touch more often for the sake of reality.

Thats why I liked Voyager, the characters weren't perfect, they had flaws and issues that were apparent and believable. They had a captain who wasn't affraid to bend or totally break every rule in the book to get a job accomplished. Prime Directive to hell, if fighting dirty is what it takes to get your job done and ensure the survival of your crew, do it.

Enterprise has potential, and I like seeing the human characters with human flaws, it makes them easier to relate to.

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cassibill

Member since
February 2003
From: Indiana, USA

Posted by cassibill on Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:01 PM

QUOTE: Enterprise has potential, and I like seeing the human characters with human flaws, it makes them easier to relate to.

Don't forget T'Pol's drug habit.

cdw My life flashes before my eyes and it mostly my life flashing before my eyes!!! Big Smile The 1/144 scale census and message board: http://144scalelist.freewebpage.org/index.html

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:19 PM

whatever it takes to get her into the shower

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:22 PM

Hummmm....a vulcan with "human" flaws.
Fascinating!

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upnorth

Member since
December 2002
From: Canada / Czech Republic

Posted by upnorth on Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:59 PM

Yeah, I like how they worked her problems into a drug habit rather than a pregnancy, which I was dreading a story line about but almost expecting.

I don't see hers as a human problem when you consider that Vulcans, from a historical standpoint, were a very aggresive and irrational species before they embraced their beloved logic as a way of life. I see her drug habit as an interesting exploration of the Vulcan species, showing that they aren't always as "in control" as you might think.

On the matter of character flaws, one of my favorite species that hit the Star Trek universe was the Cardassians. DS9 providedthe perfect opportunity to get to know them better, but never exploredthem as much as I though they should. In the Cardassians, we had a people that had at one point been very peaceful and spiritual in their history, but desperate situations (plagues, minimal natural resources in their home solar system...) led to desperate measures, military overthrow of the civilian government, draconian laws to control rampant crime, and of course the occupation of Bajor.

Here you've got a group of people, some desperate to hag onto the power they have build in spite of the ugly way they have done it and others just as desperate to prove that Cardassians are not the blood thirsty butchers so many have come to think they are.

Lots of potential to explore an interesting species that I felt went sadly under explored.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 23, 2004 11:42 AM

I agree with liking "Less-than-Utopia" plots and shower scenes. That's why I liked the final seasons of DS9, war is a dirty business. With that Section 31 or whatever it was, biological war, etc. But through it all, for me, its the ships themselves that really sustain my interest in the whole ST concept.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 23, 2004 12:19 PM

Well, if TOS were to be made today instead of the 1960s, the original Enterprise would probably look very much like the NX-1 version. The designers then didn't have all of the technology to design a ship like that in the 60s. So, if you look at it in that light, the NX-1 version fits in pretty well; IMHO.

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Woody

Member since
December 2002
From: Third rock from the sun.

Posted by Woody on Friday, April 23, 2004 12:37 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by MarinR00

Enterprise never grabbed me because I just could figure out how the ship designers had an Akira-style ship, then went to something much less modern looking (Constitution class, etc), then "reinvented" an old design hundreds of years later. And reinvented is pushing it, because they took the same ship, and just turned the nacelles so they faced down.

I guess this describes how I feel in a nut shell. They disregarded a lot of valid Star Trek history by using that ship design. It would have fit right in the battle to ward off the Borg. I guess at the heart of it I just don't believe that is a Star Trek universe vessel.

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones

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torybear

Member since
November 2003
From: South Carolina

Posted by torybear on Saturday, April 24, 2004 10:10 AM

I like the new series. The current storyline is a bit much, but I like the retro version of the ship. I would like to see more episodes like the original series about exploration and the beginings of Stat Fleet. I like the characters and the captain is more of a flashback to Kirk. I could not imagine Pickard doing some of the things that Johnathan is doing. The ethics thing in last weeks episode was interesting. How far would you comprise your ethics for some important task. I want to see more Klingons, Romulans and Vulcans. Bottom line, I hope it continues to survive.

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Woody

Member since
December 2002
From: Third rock from the sun.

Posted by Woody on Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:47 PM

I was surfing Star Trek sites as I do frequently when I came across something that made me a wee bit mad. The site was called "The STF Technical Manual" and they are openly rewritting pre-TOS material to fit the "Enterprise" version. Well anyway if you are familiar with the USS Bonaventure here is their new version openly called a revision.

Doesn't even look a thing like the Bonaventure but it looks quite a bit like the ship from the show "Enterprise".

Here is the real Bonaventure

By the way how come the NX Enterprise wasn't on the display that was in the recreation area of the NCC-1701A of all the vessels to carry the name Enterprise? Wink [;)]

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones

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