Hey Capn, I knew I can count on you to expound. Good stuff. Come to think of it. Probably, the last time I sprayed that paint I was running a dehumidifier. The thing died on me and i am without. I am more convinced now than ever that I need to get another one. I am on vacation next week, yea, and a good time to look for one.

Maybe get some bench time and into more debacles.

Bakster

You could feel the dampness in the air. It was thick. I believe it was the moisture content that hazed the glue.

CA responds to water vapor--literally humidity--which is different from water droplets (unlike polyurea "gorilla" glue, which activates in the presence of water).

Airbrush assuredly responds to air pressure and RH.

Consider that an a/b uses compressed air to lift and atomize paint, which then expands on leaving the nozzle to eventually equalize with ambient.

Compressed gasses, when expanded, always have some amount of phase change.  This is not as dramatic as the phase change refrigerant gasses go through. 

Air with more water vapor "holds" more heat when compressed, and give up that latent heat on beign decompressed.  This is a key reason for water traps on compressors or compressed air tanks. 

That heat exchange can affect ambient humitidy, and it can affect the atomized paint as well.  Which also affects the solvents used in the paint, too.  (This was the brilliance of using xylene as the volitile solvent in Floquil paint, its liberation helped keep the paint in its "useful" range really, really, reliably.)

Our use, in modeling, of "water soluable" acrylics is adding water--if oft in suspension with other thinner chemistries--to a water-affected event.

Now, on the face of it, this makes for an excellent argument to use "dry" gasses like CO2, Nitrogen, or the like as airbrush propellants.  Their expansion has a lower thermal gradient, and far less interaction with ambient water vapor.  Now, Ar/N2/CO2 all have issues for modelers, difficulties as well as benefits.

The reality of it is that we each get to run test shots and spend as much time replicating previous paint performance as getting paint applied.

It's a complicated dance.

Oh gosh, I'm crossing my fingers for you Bakster. No advice to give, I'm even more flabberghasted as you are. 

Good luck, please keep us informed in how it goes... 

CapnMac82

 

 

Bakster

Man oh man... that was a struggle. So, I am thinking, the paint might have thickened some since last use because before, it had sprayed perfectly straight from the bottle. I had no issues back then. Why the Paasche worked better I can only guess. Maybe it sprays at a higher volume of paint. The finish came out well but I did get some minor dust.

 

 

Well, "ambient" is different now than it was just three or four months ago. 

In my case the house is very different.  Back in June, a/c was running abut 45 minutes of every hour, and was working hard stay 20°F less than outside--so, inside of the house was running 79-81°F.  But, at very low humidity dues to the a/c running so much.

Right now, a/c runs perhaps 10 or 15 minutes in an hour, and the indoor temp is much closer to 72-73°F, and the humidity has increased accordingly (I'm reading about 31%RH right now).  My thick CA is thicker than normal; the thin is scaring "light medium."  And, of course, some of those tubes are near a month old, too.

Dust is a vexation no matter what.  Unless you get enough exhaust air volume to pull a negative pressure (or pump in a positive pressure) in your work space.  Which is tricky, as a mere 1/2" WC pressure difference will cause headaches in 80% of the population.

Negative is better while sanding; positive better when drying--this dance is complicated.

 

Wow, Capn, you are a mind reader. You know, I have been thinking about this. I paint in my basement and temps can vary, so does the humidity. I don't run a dehumidifier and I probably should.

That would bring up an interesting discussion. Just how much, in particular, does humidity affect airbushing performance? It sounds like you are in the camp of yes...it does. If I am reading that right. I have not given it much thought until recently because I have often read where people have problems is in super dry climates. I have not seen much about the inverse. But I tell ya... I am beginning to wonder that it plays a bigger role than I think.

Regarding the dust.. good points. I think too my booth is way overdue for a cleaning. I have been lazy about it. The other thing is... the longer you spray... the higher chance you will capture dust in the process. Yet another reason why I like to spray as quick as possible. 

Also a good point about the CA. Mine is fairly old. Here is an interesting nugget. Several years back I pondered why my CA was drying hazy when with previous uses it was clear. The connection I made is this. That particular day outdoor humidity was super high, and I had windows open, including the door to the basement. You could feel the dampness in the air. It was thick. I believe it was the moisture content that hazed the glue. Because guess what. Subsequent uses, no haze, under normal humidity. That said, I would not paint under those conditions but none the less... I am sure there is humidity in the air. At least until the furnace or AC runs more. And under the current conditions that I am in, neither are running much.

One must be a scientist to build models. 

Bakster

Man oh man... that was a struggle. So, I am thinking, the paint might have thickened some since last use because before, it had sprayed perfectly straight from the bottle. I had no issues back then. Why the Paasche worked better I can only guess. Maybe it sprays at a higher volume of paint. The finish came out well but I did get some minor dust.

Well, "ambient" is different now than it was just three or four months ago. 

In my case the house is very different.  Back in June, a/c was running abut 45 minutes of every hour, and was working hard stay 20°F less than outside--so, inside of the house was running 79-81°F.  But, at very low humidity dues to the a/c running so much.

Right now, a/c runs perhaps 10 or 15 minutes in an hour, and the indoor temp is much closer to 72-73°F, and the humidity has increased accordingly (I'm reading about 31%RH right now).  My thick CA is thicker than normal; the thin is scaring "light medium."  And, of course, some of those tubes are near a month old, too.

Dust is a vexation no matter what.  Unless you get enough exhaust air volume to pull a negative pressure (or pump in a positive pressure) in your work space.  Which is tricky, as a mere 1/2" WC pressure difference will cause headaches in 80% of the population.

Negative is better while sanding; positive better when drying--this dance is complicated.

CapnMac82

Well, it's 81°F here at 1341CST and meant to stay that way until Thursday, when the next front rolls in and we have 60s for highs.

This is not ideal weather for anything affected by humidity.  And the fact that it's super-bright at 0700, and near dark at 1700 now, will make for complicated modeling.

 

Surprisingly, decent here today too. Mid 60s, dropping to high 40s, then bouncing around to upper 50s again. Can't complain. The recent snow is long gone.

Well.. the ongoing saga continues. As you know, I stripped the paint. I used the opportunity to do more filler work. I tell ya, I find filler a struggle. Especially, when I use CA. I might need to rethink the stuff. Or at the least, find the best applications for it. Maybe I will migrate back to using spru-goo more and/or thick primer. Pretty sure I will.

The tub was primed again and yesterday, I sprayed gloss black. The black used is Alclad. The stuff worked great months back but boy, having some issues this go of things. Testing it first on spoons, I was still getting the bullseye marks. Usually, only when I sprayed heavier coats. And... they were not washed in dish soap. The issue is the paint. I need the heavier coats to draw out the gloss. I plan to spray a chrome/metal in some areas, I need the black and it must be immaculate. 

I must have gone through 25 test spoons before I came to a working consensus. What I came to, what worked best, I thinned the paint with Mr Color Lever. Then, I switched to my Paasche. The combination gave me consistency where I could take the plunge.

Man oh man... that was a struggle. So, I am thinking, the paint might have thickened some since last use because before, it had sprayed perfectly straight from the bottle. I had no issues back then. Why the Paasche worked better I can only guess. Maybe it sprays at a higher volume of paint.

The finish came out well but I did get some minor dust. I will probably try to remove those. Then, it's off to the metalic.

This is a crazy dance and I am gonna need more luck as I move forward. It is turning out to be so much more difficult than I expected. This should have been a no brainer. Not even close!

Well, it's 81°F here at 1341CST and meant to stay that way until Thursday, when the next front rolls in and we have 60s for highs.

This is not ideal weather for anything affected by humidity.  And the fact that it's super-bright at 0700, and near dark at 1700 now, will make for complicated modeling.

PhoenixG

Well put sir.

Ditto

CapnMac82

The end result is often far less a thing than the struggle to get to that point. There are those who maintain that the journey is more important than the destination. I'm not necessarily one of those people, as I prefer a more "medium" answer.

But, each of us is an individual, and we each can find our own "Goldilocks" answer.

Well put sir.

Bakster

Kind of like Wally World in National Lampoons, Vacation. Lol.

Just be careful with the pellet gun, that could leave a welt on some one

Shirt sleeve, Chamber-of-Commerce, weather today as I took the dog for a walk.
Neighborhood is crowded with parked cars for the Parade for the Rangers today.  Sigh.

Supposed to hit the 80s by Monday.  Winter-whffft-wassat? 

The end result is often far less a thing than the struggle to get to that point.  There are those who maintain that the journey is more important than the destination.  I'm not necessarily one of those people, as I prefer a more "medium" answer.

But, each of us is an individual, and we each can find our own "Goldilocks" answer.

Bakster

Hey PG, thanks for all that. I appreciate your support! If it not for the three of you guys that participate, I'd be talking to myself on here. In which case, I would stop doing builds here.

Aw, you're just saying that to be nice.    If replying keeps you posting, I'm all in.  I don't want to risk losing a major source of information!

Bakster

I must look for those videos you mentioned. They sound good.

I embedded the links in the text of my reply (verified they're there and working).  It took a bit of legwork to find them and figured this way you wouldn't have to go through it.  I debated noting the time stamps of where it was in each video but figured I shouldnt' take all of the fun out of it.

Hey PG, thanks for all that. I appreciate your support! If it not for the three of you guys that participate, I'd be talking to myself on here. In which case, I would stop doing builds here.

I must look for those videos you mentioned. They sound good.

Thanks again!

Steve.

Nothing quite like the look of fresh snow. :)

Bakster

...enjoy my bumpy journey, for what it is worth.

Always!

Bakster

Btw. Someone remind me. It's ok to paint enamel over a lacquer base correct?

Yup.  At least accoding to the folks at Finescale who did a video on that topic a few months ago :)

They then did another video testing what happens with layering lacquer, enamel, and acrylics. I enjoy watching their videos and usually find a trick or two that helps me out.

Thanks about the decals, guys.

Another snow image for you. We got about three inches out of it. The good news is that we are back in the 50s on Friday and into Monday. The snow will be gone. I will enjoy the warm temps while they last and do some winterizing around here too.

Bad news about the model. Sanding out the bullseyes was more work than it was worth and the end result likely undesirable. The top coat is enamel and not the best for sanding. I opted to strip (I said strip) the paint... again. I guess the silver lining in this is, practice makes perfect. If it doesn't kill me. Lol. As Dan Aykroyd said playing Nixon on SNL, "pray for me, Henry!"

At this point, this is no longer about building a model I want, it is more of a quest. It is a quest to finish the thing to my liking. Kind of like Wally World in National Lampoons, Vacation. Lol. Ah, but don't feel bad for me. Every struggle is an opportunity to learn. And learn, that I am.

I am back into modeling for about 9 years now I still struggle with paint and fillers. I thought about this more and I think why that is is because with every model I have built, I spend maybe 95% of my time fabricating, and only 5% with filling and paint. Heck. There are times I go months with fabrication and when it comes time to paint I have to think, ok, what do I have to do? How do I proceed? There is something to be said about banging out models good or bad. Experience gets you there. Or that is what I think, as of today. Unfortunately, I am not wired that way. I enjoy the fabrication too much and I am too much of a perfectionist.

So, enjoy my bumpy journey, for what it is worth. 

Btw. Someone remind me. It's ok to paint enamel over a lacquer base correct? 

Like you I print multiple copies of every decal.  I typically go through 3-4 decals for every success.

The prints you showed of the decals turned out nicely.  It always amazes me how the little details like guages and indicators heighten the look of the build.

Wow, snow in October.  Stay safe.  Out here in western Washington a half inch of snow can create snowmageddon.  It's such a rare thing for us to get snow that people aren't used to it and they either freak out or don't modify their driving to account for the change in road conditions.

Yeah hope everything is fine Capt. We got a freeze warning here. 

And it is funny, yesterday and Sunday it was so hot I was wearing a t-shirt under a regular shirt and had to take the t-shirt off. Today I had on a shirt, t-shirt, sweater, AND a jacket...

And the only day this week they're forcasting rain was today. But I remember every year, EVERY FRIGGIN' YEAR my sister and I went trick 'er treating as kids it was cold and rainy. That was back in the late '70s and early '80s. 

Welcome to reality.

Gamera

Those decals look great Bakster! 

Weird about the rings in the tub. I've had a similar type of thing happen to me. It could be the the soap. 

Or Dr. Smith leaving coffee cup rings. 

Darned if I know...

 

I'm going to blame those dang dirty apes... 

 

Thanks, Gam. 

Lol. I blame it on the apes. I think Zaius and Cornelius did something. They climed down from my shelf and sabotaged the piece. Probably spat on it. Lol.

CapnMac82

Those look good. 

After this last "polar bomb cyclone" (it's all of 47° here in Texas, after having scared 35° last night) there are likely all manner of potential weather related hiccups lurking around.

 

Thanks, Capn. 

I am looking out my window and guess what? It is snowing.

Do me a favor and keep from losing power like a few years back. THAT, and Covid, created the perfect storm of hell. If you recall in Texas, vats of resin had to be thrown out contributng to a world wide shortage. In the industry I work in it affected everything. Leadtimes jumped from 8 weeks to 50 weeks and in a number of cases, we didnt know when we would ever see the parts. This went on for two long years and just the last 8 to 12 months brought some normalization. A 7 cent part sold for over 2 Dollars each through anyone that could find the parts. Some quotes pushed 4 Dollars. Throw in all the family deaths I have seen... my gosh man... I am just starting the process of healing. No joke. I think if the supply chain goes that bad again, I will have to pull the plug and retire early. And now I am seeing a major downturn in business. Emails dropping to almost nothing. Seems like the recession has arrived. What a world we live in.

And that is my rant for the day. Lol.

Capt: Interesting about 'Andromeda' and 'Earth the Final Conflict'. I've never seen either of those. 

Those decals look great Bakster! 

Weird about the rings in the tub. I've had a similar type of thing happen to me. It could be the the soap. 

Or Dr. Smith leaving coffee cup rings. 

Darned if I know...

I'm going to blame those dang dirty apes... 

Those look good. 

After this last "polar bomb cyclone" (it's all of 47° here in Texas, after having scared 35° last night) there are likely all manner of potential weather related hiccups lurking around.

Back to the model.

Below: Printed and ready for application. The detail came through fairly well.

Also, I painted the tub and what should have been a slam dunk ended with a problem. Some areas came up with bullseye marks. I washed the piece beforehand. It should have been clean and I left it to dry over night. I am questioning my wisdom to include dish soap at this stage. I have seen this issue occur before and I suspect it is residual soap. I do recall some water droplets on the piece to air dry and that I couldn't shake off. I am out of canned air too.  I suppose I could have wiped it dry but then you introduce lint or whatnot. Ugh. I will sand the piece until smooth and then apply a new top layer. 

The tub is fighting me and Bakster no likey.

PhoenixG

Make fun of the newbie

Was not my intent at all.  We here in the "old crowd" will often jape about such things.

And the tribulations of the Notification feature pale in comparision to the debacle which is the Search function.

(If one is keen to search, going to one's preferred browser, and includind either "FSM" or "Fine Scale" will actually get better results than the "built in" search function.)

PhoenixG

 

 

Bakster

 

 

CapnMac82

 

 

PhoenixG

Notifications

 

 

What, those ever worked?

 

 

 

 

Laughing. 

 

 

 

 

LOL,

Yeah yeah.  I see how it is.  Make fun of the newbie (yes, after nearly two years I still consider myself "new").  

I wasn't aware of just how long standing this problem is, or how many continue to be affected by it.  Having learned a bit more about this, I can understand why there's some sniggering when seeing my signature.  I predict a change to it in the near future. :)

 

 

Yes, no offense to you. Lol. Yes, sniggering is to the long standing problem. For me, it has not worked for 5 plus years. Add a couple more years to it where it would work a month or two then not again. 

It seems to work for some, and I am envious of these people.

Bakster

 

 

CapnMac82

 

 

PhoenixG

Notifications

 

 

What, those ever worked?

 

 

 

 

Laughing. 

 

LOL,

Yeah yeah.  I see how it is.  Make fun of the newbie (yes, after nearly two years I still consider myself "new").  

I wasn't aware of just how long standing this problem is, or how many continue to be affected by it.  Having learned a bit more about this, I can understand why there's some sniggering when seeing my signature.  I predict a change to it in the near future. :)

CapnMac82

 

 

PhoenixG

Notifications

 

 

What, those ever worked?

 

Laughing. 

PhoenixG

Notifications

What, those ever worked?

Funny how this comes up. I was recently talking about paint grain being cumulative and how I deal with that. Aaron Skinner just released a video on the subject. Aaron does an excellent job walking a person through the process and it is extremely close to how I deal with the problem. The only place my process diverges is how I apply the color coat. I don't have the patience for thin layers of paint. However, with using MRP lacquer, I learned I need to do that to avoid crazing, and the coverage is just as effective. But when I use acrylics, I tend to flood the piece drawing out a smooth finish. Aaron's way is probably better but I just don't have that patience.

Anyhow, it's an excellent tutorial and worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/P2DXPH6Wmk4?si=QdWs6LCk_LKBx9O_

Hey thanks PG, and I will try that Windows shortcut sometime too!