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LIS Chariot 1:35

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  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, December 5, 2023 7:01 PM

I'm just glad to see you knock another roadblock outta your way! 

Modeling has enough frustration without dealing with a poorly operating spray booth. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, December 5, 2023 3:16 PM

Gamera

Oh that looks grand Bakster! An early Christmas present for sure!!! 

Hope now you'll be posting all the piles of new stuff you're going to get painted... Wink

 

I probably need one myself. I just use the airbrush on a small table in a good-sized basement. Never noticed any real fume smell. And sometimes I use spray cans down there I do notice the smell then, I spray and leave. 

 

Thanks, Gam. Just lining things up for retirement. Not too far off now. I see a light and it does not appear to be a freight train.

I will post more updates as I finish things off. Waiting for a light to arrive and for available time to work on it.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, December 4, 2023 8:37 PM

Oh that looks grand Bakster! An early Christmas present for sure!!! 

Hope now you'll be posting all the piles of new stuff you're going to get painted... Wink

 

I probably need one myself. I just use the airbrush on a small table in a good-sized basement. Never noticed any real fume smell. And sometimes I use spray cans down there I do notice the smell then, I spray and leave. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Monday, December 4, 2023 11:52 AM

PhoenixG
I am wondering if a soldering fume extractor would help with glue fumes.

Yeah, the various versions of thathave also distracted from a home-brew version.

The stand-on-the-floor version of fume extractors for shop use have also distracted, too.   They tend to be quiet, too.  The goosneck allows putting them to one side or the other of the bench, to have a "cross draft" of sorts.

But, home-brew has the advantage of being able to include lighting in one package, and the potention for not being quite soe many dollars.

Maybe

Perhaps.

Sigh.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, December 4, 2023 9:28 AM

PhoenixG

Looks like Christmas came early for you too.  May it serve you well! 

Yes it did and I hope so too.

  • Member since
    October 2021
Posted by PhoenixG on Sunday, December 3, 2023 11:02 PM

Bakster,

That new booth sure looks spiffy.  Your DYI setup was impressive and hope the new booth meets your expectations. 

Looks like Christmas came early for you too.  May it serve you well!

 

Cap'n,

I am wondering if a soldering fume extractor would help with glue fumes.  It's supposed to help capture and keep the resin and flux fumes out of your face when soldering.  Perhaps it could do the same for glue?   The downside, unlike a hood it would take up space on the bench.

On the Bench:

Bandai 1/72 Defender Destroid

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, December 3, 2023 8:26 PM

CapnMac82
A dedicated space is worth its weight in gold, even if dank and dark.  Those latter two conditions being emminently curable to need.  Also, a dedicated space has the luxury of being able to be "straightened up" simply by closing the door--which can be important both to domestic bliss, and to not having to discombobulate the modeling process.

 

And there is wisdom.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Sunday, December 3, 2023 8:24 PM

CapnMac82
Pretty cool stuff. Had not expected the glove-box front, though it makes sense.

Thanks, Capn. As it turns out, I cut the hands off the gloves and leave the sleeves. Then I use regular disposable gloves. The sleeves provide somewhat of a seal. Leaving the hands on are too restricting. It like doing surgery in a spacesuit.

CapnMac82
The larger question always ran aground on what to do with the exhaust.  Sending it outside being ideal for odors, but needing make-up air to complicate things.

I like it. Going the cheap man's route, I have a small fan I turn on just adjacent to my work and it blows the fumes away. It helps from breathing it.

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, December 1, 2023 12:25 PM

Pretty cool stuff.

Had not expected the glove-box front, though it makes sense.

A dedicated space is worth its weight in gold, even if dank and dark.  Those latter two conditions being emminently curable to need. 

Also, a dedicated space has the luxury of being able to be "straightened up" simply by closing the door--which can be important both to domestic bliss, and to not having to discombobulate the modeling process.

There is a feature which has vexed me over the years.  What I have always wanted was an overhead vent fan, not per se filtered, but for moving glue solvent fumes up and away from the workspace. 

To my thinking it would want a couple things.  Like the intake being around 50-75% the are of the desk below, and having a very low "draw."  As in about 10-20 cfm, tops, this would move odors, but not make a breeze.  THis would have a benefit in keeping dust away, too.

In running the calculations, it turns out you need a large fan rather than a small one, which uses inertia to move the air steadily, and also slowly.  So, a 250cfm fam with a motor controller to step the rpm down, but with a big cage would be wanted.

The larger question always ran aground on what to do with the exhaust.  Sending it outside being ideal for odors, but needing make-up air to complicate things.

Putting the motor near the exhaust rather than the intake can lower the noise at the workspace, but it--the desing--wants to have two 'reducing' areas to accomodate the bits.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, November 30, 2023 10:23 PM

 

Humble beginnings 

Below is my 30 year old contraption made from mostly hardware store materials. Such as nuts, screws, aluminum angle stock, plexiglass, and a few other things. I built it while  living in an apartment and I designed it so that it was mostly a closed system. It is not entirely closed because I wanted some air to flow through the booth.

My reasoning for a closed system was to serve two main puposes. That being, low fuming, and low dust drawn into the system. But mostly, to reduce fuming. I vented the system through a window insert I could easily install and remove. The insert was made from particle board. At the time, I used a simple squirrel motor fan that I picked up cheap from a local science store. I estimate the cost of materials for this booth at around $100. Not cheap for the time, but much cheaper than buying a commercial unit.

The front panel can be left open or I can choose to spray with it closed. 

The system worked well but when I moved into a condo, venting required a longer reach, and the meager squirrel blower I had was woefully inadequate.

In comes the next upgrade. I purchased a portable booth, pulled the blower assembly, and I attached it to the back of the booth. I think I paid $120 ish for that. Suction improved but over time... I began to realize the meager computer fan was not up to the task either. It was this assembly that I found on the floor last Sunday.

The third upgrade was when I purchased an in-line blower. I mounted it at the end of the line. You can see it in the first image. So, I used both blowers in tandem. This did help, but only marginally. I was able to get by with it. 

A few posts back I mentioned revamping my Condo. Below is a bench that I had in room where my work office station is. Originally, my intent for that bench was to use it for model assembly. The hope was to keep me out of the rather dank basement. For some reason, that never really took hold. I tried it for awhile but the bench area is too small for my needs. What is worse, it was not really good to work at from a sitting position. It can be done, but it is not the greatest. It was too high and it's designed to work from a standing position. That said, it should be fine for my airbrush work. So... it sat, taking space, collecting dust. Thus, I moved it to the basement and rather than using a folding table I will use the more solid bench. The now defunct folding table may one day be repurposed into a model photography station. 

In this image you can see the bench is positioned in place and the old booth is gone. The latter is in pieces waiting for disposal. Good bye old friend.

A total reset

Assembly begins.

Short of the mods that I will do, out of the box is done.



So what did I buy? Click on the link.

https://www.amazon.com/Paasche-HSSB-22-16-Hobby-22-Inch-18-Inch/dp/B0038DANR6?th=1

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71koZT3V4iL.pdf

 

And why did I choose this one?

1. It offers a working space similar to what I had before. Though, slightly smaller. I was a bit concerned about that but once I got it assembled, it seems perfectly adequate. Truth is, my home made unit had more space than I needed.

2. The price point is on the low end when one moves beyond the commercially available portables. And in my opinion, this is a major step up in value from those.

3. Reviews are mixed about air draw. Some say it is not good enough, others say it's fine. I tested it a little and it is definitely better than what I had. The blower assembly uses a much larger fan and it does seem to draw. But... I expect that might change rapidly once the filter starts to clog. Don't take that to the bank, though. I won't know until I use it more. 

4. The build quality seems solid. Certainly, much better than my wiggly booth.

5. This booth has a flat face to its front. That will allow me to fabricate and use an opening door, like on my old unit. In short... build a mostly closed system that can be used either way.

Final thoughts

1. The booth needs lighting. They should include that but don't. I will purchase and install an Led light bar.

2. I was mentioning air draw. Interestingly, when I ran the unit and I placed a piece of plexy over the face, not totally covering, suction literally pulled a LARGE sheet of paper from the bottom of booth and into the fan filter. The paper is almost as large as the bottom floor. I was amazed. My old one would never do that. So... this baby sucks! Big Smile

3. I am excited about this upgrade because the potential is there. Btw. I am fairly certain I will remove the inline fan. I don't think I need it and to be honest, I am not convinced that  the two don't sort of fight each other. Removing it will eliminate one dangling cord. Additionally, once I get lighting installed internally, I can remove the dangling lamp. Either way, the lamp will do no good. It was only good with the clear plexy of my old booth. Lastly, the dangling outlet-strip will go too. My bench has a built in outlet. I just need to run a cord from the power socket to the bench.

The whole aesthetic will change.

And so there you go. That is more than you ever wanted to know about my spray booth journey.

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, November 30, 2023 9:26 PM

Bakster: Yeah thirty years is a good run. That's a lot of models! I know what you mean about losing interest. Might be an idea to shelf the thing for the rest of the year and get a fresh new start in 2024. 

Captain: Ack. Just got back from vacation myself. Five hours driving and I'm sounding like Smith with 'My delicate back!' 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, November 30, 2023 3:47 PM

Hey PJ, funny you should ask. I was just working on images. I figured I'd make my side project part of this thread. 

And yes... 30 years is decent. I could have kept it going but hey... life is too short. I don't spend much money on myself so... I figured... what the hey... treat myself.

More info to come.

And about the charriot. If I am being completely honest, my spirit is indeed dampened. Any project that goes too long, I get bored with. I am already pining for another project. But hey... I know myself. Guess what. That next project will go too long too and then I will be pining for another project. Nothing gets done! Lol. So... using logic that Spock might understand... I must push through it! Truthfully... just too many life issues distracting me.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, November 30, 2023 3:30 PM

CapnMac82

 

 
Bakster
What is the point of all this? More delays until another update. I didn't give up on the Robinsons....just letting Smith run the show for a bit.

 

Rolling with the flow is often a good strategy for success.

 

. And there is wisdom! I like it so much I should make it a tagline. Stick out tongue

 

Glad you made it through all the traveling... safely. That is a big bunch of miles. But hey... everything is bigger in Texas. Hehe.

  • Member since
    October 2021
Posted by PhoenixG on Thursday, November 30, 2023 12:23 PM

Bakster,

Hope the new spray booth serves you in good stead. 30 years is an amazing run for anything.  The timing wasn't necessarily fortuitous but I'm glad to hear it hasn't damped your interest in finishing the chariot. 

Care to share the specs of the new booth?  Not that I am looking to replace my current cardboard box and vacuum cleaner, but it would be interesting to learn what you liked about the replacement.

On the Bench:

Bandai 1/72 Defender Destroid

  • Member since
    October 2021
Posted by PhoenixG on Thursday, November 30, 2023 12:10 PM

Cap'n,

Too bad there aren't frequent flier miles for all the driving you do.  You'd make bank on that!  lol

On the Bench:

Bandai 1/72 Defender Destroid

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, November 29, 2023 2:03 PM

Bakster
What is the point of all this? More delays until another update. I didn't give up on the Robinsons....just letting Smith run the show for a bit.

Rolling with the flow is often a good strategy for success.

Like when the 2nd cousins were visiting the 1st cousins, and realize I was "just over there in Arlington."  Hey, family is amily, even when extended.  And, ok, it's "just over" in Metroplex terms, so, 35 miles/45 minutes--but, at least it was nearly all tollway driving, so not quite so many idiots on the road.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Monday, November 27, 2023 5:47 PM

And another extended  weekend flew by. 

Yesterday, I was lounging in front of the TV when I heard a loud bang. It sounded like metal. First thought was some pots and pans shifted in the kitchen. Also, I thought, maybe something in the basement, but what could it be. Did I jump up to check? Nope. Whatever it was, I will find out later.

One of my goals for the day was to work on my spraybooth. It needs work.

Later, I go downstairs and what do I find? The fan assembly fell off the back of my booth. Mind you.. this is a homemade contraption that spans 30 some years. I fixed the issues but it bugged me. Why am I struggling with this thing. I decided to do some research and boom... I ordered a "made for said purpose" booth. I still plan to modify it but this should work better than what I  built 30 some years ago when I was poorer. Kind of funny the blower fell off just hours before I planned to work on it. Seems like a devine message. Like, get rid of this thing, and do something different.

What is the point of all this? More delays until another update. I didn't give up on the Robinsons....just  letting Smith run the show for a bit.

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Wednesday, November 22, 2023 1:45 PM

PhoenixG
Staycation

After that drive yesterday, I'm done with driving this w/e.

Coming up I-35 (I-45 was bad enough going down) it was like everyone was driving angry.

But, I have all the fixin's for a lovely jambalaya for tomorrow (y'all are welcome to my share of the pavo).  Le bon temps rollez, if not very far.  :)

  • Member since
    October 2021
Posted by PhoenixG on Wednesday, November 22, 2023 12:43 PM

Staycation verb. Ostensibly a vacation that doesn't involve traveling but typically involves working at a residence.  Also see housework, chores, home improvement, spring cleaning, to-do list.Wink

w

On the Bench:

Bandai 1/72 Defender Destroid

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Saturday, November 18, 2023 9:28 AM

That is a lot of driving, Capn. Not my favorite thing to do either. Windshield time is a major time suck.

I am not working on the model today but I am revamping my house some. That includes my spray booth. Trying to bring some order back into what has been chaos these last several years. 

Anyhow, back to work.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, November 17, 2023 11:16 AM

Bakster
I am on vacation this week and it is like the universe was waiting for me to be off because each day is filled with other priorities.

I keep longing for next Wednesday, even knowing that each of those days will vanish into the ether in the blink of an eye.

Mind, I'm coping with having to get up tomorrow at 0500 to drive to a football game, so there;s that 400 miles to get in.  Then, Teuesday, I have a site visitr in Houston to get in, so, there's another 600 miles round trip.  So, I'll not be traveling after Tuesday if I can help it.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, November 16, 2023 8:47 AM

PhoenixG

My bench is in my garage.  Winters in the Pacific Northwest are notoriously wet.  A couple of years ago, doing a build in the winter, I had problems with a clear coat crazing badly.  Reading all this makes me think it was due to high humidity as well. 

Glad this came up.  It's something I'll have to keep an eye on.  Probably should get some sort of hygrometer for my garage to read the Relative Humidity.  Could act as an early warning system.

Bakster, any new news or waiting on getting a dehumidifier before proceeding?

 

 

Hey PG, yeah that might have been your issue as well.

 

To your question: Sadly, I have not purchased one yet and worse, I have had zero benchtime. I am on vacation this week and it is like the universe was waiting  for me to be off because each day is filled with other priorities. 

Ah well...maybe on the weekend.

  • Member since
    October 2021
Posted by PhoenixG on Tuesday, November 14, 2023 3:49 PM

My bench is in my garage.  Winters in the Pacific Northwest are notoriously wet.  A couple of years ago, doing a build in the winter, I had problems with a clear coat crazing badly.  Reading all this makes me think it was due to high humidity as well. 

Glad this came up.  It's something I'll have to keep an eye on.  Probably should get some sort of hygrometer for my garage to read the Relative Humidity.  Could act as an early warning system.

Bakster, any new news or waiting on getting a dehumidifier before proceeding?

On the Bench:

Bandai 1/72 Defender Destroid

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, November 10, 2023 4:53 PM

That's true, Capn. Soon it will be. Temps keep bouncing around and right now my furnace is barely running. I need to get one either way. Might even get a deal for being out of season. We shall see.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, November 10, 2023 3:32 PM

Deleted. Duplicate

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, November 10, 2023 1:50 PM

Bakster
I was running a dehumidifier

Well, y'all up there in the northlands are about to enter heating season is a big way, and everything but steam heat will likely want a humidifier, lest it get too dry.

It's a crisp 56°F today in DFW, which was feeling just a touch chill while walking the dog just now.  Mind, it was 78° about the same time on Wednesday, which may explain the chill.

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Thursday, November 9, 2023 5:33 PM

Hey Capn, I knew I can count on you to expound. Good stuff. Come to think of it. Probably, the last time I sprayed that paint I was running a dehumidifier. The thing died on me and i am without. I am more convinced now than ever that I need to get another one. I am on vacation next week, yea, and a good time to look for one.

Maybe get some bench time and into more debacles.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Thursday, November 9, 2023 4:46 PM

Bakster
You could feel the dampness in the air. It was thick. I believe it was the moisture content that hazed the glue.

CA responds to water vapor--literally humidity--which is different from water droplets (unlike polyurea "gorilla" glue, which activates in the presence of water).

Airbrush assuredly responds to air pressure and RH.

Consider that an a/b uses compressed air to lift and atomize paint, which then expands on leaving the nozzle to eventually equalize with ambient.

Compressed gasses, when expanded, always have some amount of phase change.  This is not as dramatic as the phase change refrigerant gasses go through. 

Air with more water vapor "holds" more heat when compressed, and give up that latent heat on beign decompressed.  This is a key reason for water traps on compressors or compressed air tanks. 

That heat exchange can affect ambient humitidy, and it can affect the atomized paint as well.  Which also affects the solvents used in the paint, too.  (This was the brilliance of using xylene as the volitile solvent in Floquil paint, its liberation helped keep the paint in its "useful" range really, really, reliably.)

Our use, in modeling, of "water soluable" acrylics is adding water--if oft in suspension with other thinner chemistries--to a water-affected event.

Now, on the face of it, this makes for an excellent argument to use "dry" gasses like CO2, Nitrogen, or the like as airbrush propellants.  Their expansion has a lower thermal gradient, and far less interaction with ambient water vapor.  Now, Ar/N2/CO2 all have issues for modelers, difficulties as well as benefits.

The reality of it is that we each get to run test shots and spend as much time replicating previous paint performance as getting paint applied.

It's a complicated dance.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, November 7, 2023 7:43 PM

Oh gosh, I'm crossing my fingers for you Bakster. No advice to give, I'm even more flabberghasted as you are. 

Good luck, please keep us informed in how it goes... 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, November 7, 2023 5:20 PM

CapnMac82

 

 
Bakster
Man oh man... that was a struggle. So, I am thinking, the paint might have thickened some since last use because before, it had sprayed perfectly straight from the bottle. I had no issues back then. Why the Paasche worked better I can only guess. Maybe it sprays at a higher volume of paint. The finish came out well but I did get some minor dust.

 

Well, "ambient" is different now than it was just three or four months ago. 

In my case the house is very different.  Back in June, a/c was running abut 45 minutes of every hour, and was working hard stay 20°F less than outside--so, inside of the house was running 79-81°F.  But, at very low humidity dues to the a/c running so much.

Right now, a/c runs perhaps 10 or 15 minutes in an hour, and the indoor temp is much closer to 72-73°F, and the humidity has increased accordingly (I'm reading about 31%RH right now).  My thick CA is thicker than normal; the thin is scaring "light medium."  And, of course, some of those tubes are near a month old, too.

Dust is a vexation no matter what.  Unless you get enough exhaust air volume to pull a negative pressure (or pump in a positive pressure) in your work space.  Which is tricky, as a mere 1/2" WC pressure difference will cause headaches in 80% of the population.

Negative is better while sanding; positive better when drying--this dance is complicated.

 

Wow, Capn, you are a mind reader. You know, I have been thinking about this. I paint in my basement and temps can vary, so does the humidity. I don't run a dehumidifier and I probably should.

That would bring up an interesting discussion. Just how much, in particular, does humidity affect airbushing performance? It sounds like you are in the camp of yes...it does. If I am reading that right. I have not given it much thought until recently because I have often read where people have problems is in super dry climates. I have not seen much about the inverse. But I tell ya... I am beginning to wonder that it plays a bigger role than I think.

Regarding the dust.. good points. I think too my booth is way overdue for a cleaning. I have been lazy about it. The other thing is... the longer you spray... the higher chance you will capture dust in the process. Yet another reason why I like to spray as quick as possible. 

Also a good point about the CA. Mine is fairly old. Here is an interesting nugget. Several years back I pondered why my CA was drying hazy when with previous uses it was clear. The connection I made is this. That particular day outdoor humidity was super high, and I had windows open, including the door to the basement. You could feel the dampness in the air. It was thick. I believe it was the moisture content that hazed the glue. Because guess what. Subsequent uses, no haze, under normal humidity. That said, I would not paint under those conditions but none the less... I am sure there is humidity in the air. At least until the furnace or AC runs more. And under the current conditions that I am in, neither are running much.

One must be a scientist to build models. Stick out tongue

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